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Ithilisa
Rivendell
Oct 2 2014, 5:32am
Post #1 of 43
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Legolas personality change?
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If anyone has done a thread on this before, please point me in the right direction and I'll stop writing on this one, but does it seem to anyone else that the Legolas of the LOTR movies has quite a different attitude/ personality than Legolas of TH? Picturing Legolas' conversations with Aragorn in Helm's Deep and then his conversations with Tauriel, he just doesn't seem remotely the same. It definitely adds to my not liking his character being in TH, even if he is Thranduil's son. I liked Legolas in LOTR; I don't really like his character in TH. Maybe he'll seem different in BOTFA. Thoughts?
"I name you Elf-friend; and may the stars shine upon the end of your road!" - Gildor
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Cirashala
Valinor
Oct 2 2014, 5:51am
Post #2 of 43
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I liked him in LOTR (in fact, favorite character in it) but I don't like him in TH.
For starters, he seems very spoiled and snobby. Then again, in LOTR he was a subordinate to whomever was leading the quest at the time, but in his realm he's second in command, essentially, and a prince of their people- that may well bring out a different personality in someone.
He definitely possesses more of his father's attitude in insularity and superiority. He definitely came across as more dangerous and less wise- though it's a bit jarring, considering he's Sindarin, not Silvan. However, we do not know anything about his mother- she could have been Silvan, thus explaining that a bit more.
And it could also be that he, like his father, somewhat adopts the ways of the lesser elves that they rule over.
At any rate, it may boil down to- OB's acting was, IMO, better in LOTR than TH, where it felt forced in many places (for some reason, unlike LOTR, his line delivery just WAS. NOT. THERE.). Add that to poor makeup, and flat expressions- I just think his acting stunk this time around.
Which is sad, because we all know he can do better.
I think I will reserve judgment until I've seen the BO5A (maybe even until I've seen the EE for it in 2015) before I make that final determination, as quite a LOT happens in this upcoming film (whatever that may be) that could definitely make him change his personality into the "strange elf clad in green and brown" we meet at the Council of Elrond.
(This post was edited by Cirashala on Oct 2 2014, 5:53am)
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Old Toby
Grey Havens
Oct 2 2014, 5:57am
Post #3 of 43
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Hmmm. I will start by saying I've never been a Legolas fan
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I haven't had anything against him either though. From the LOTR films I just found him rather bland. I actually like his personality better in the Hobbit films. I think he's a chip off the old block, so to speak, having the same sort of aloof attitude, the same disdain for the dwarves, and probably has the same hairdresser. He's got an edge in the Hobbit films that I didn't see in LOTR, a toughness that borders on callousness sometimes. He's not the noble, admirable elf we saw in LOTR, and I for one am glad. I personally could have done with a lot less Legolas in the Hobbit films in general, but I can easily see why his inclusion is a good thing. Now if only he would stop with the gymnastics while he fought....
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Oct 2 2014, 5:58am
Post #4 of 43
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Clearly something happens in the next film (I'm assuming as relates to Tauriel and his relationship with her) that has a profound effect on him and leads the character into who we meet as he rides into Rivendell in The Fellowship of the Ring.
This is not uncommon in storytelling. Characters often undergo dramatic changes, turning from unlikeable to likeable and vice versa (try watching Breaking Bad for a prime example of this). It's fair if you don't like Legolas thus far in The Hobbit compared to who he is in LotR (that's your prerogative), but there is a method to PJ's madness (so to speak  ) here.
Speaking for myself, I like Legolas' sharper demeanor here. It gives Bloom something else to play, and I think he's quite good in the films. He's certainly matured as an actor and I like his delivery (especially in moments such as when he takes Orcrist from Thorin). I look forward to seeing how he segues into the character we (many of us, anyway) know and love from LotR.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Oct 2 2014, 6:04am)
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Lissuin
Valinor
Oct 2 2014, 7:03am
Post #5 of 43
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Character arc: you took the words...., Aragorn Elfstone.
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In FOTR we hopped right into the middle of Legolas' character arc, or rather, sixty years after he is softened and tempered by sadness and loss. Yes, he's a cocksure princeling in TH - what else could he be as the proficient warrior but very isolated heir to a king like Thranduil? But he begins to question his father's methods regarding the orc prisoner. In my first presidential election I voted the same as my parents had always done because it felt "right" - and then I woke up to what my experience was teaching me, changed parties, and never looked back. Legolas might not like every dwarf he meets by the time of LOTR, and Gimli probably presses lots of elf/dwarf stereotype buttons by trying to kill The Ring with an axe, but Legolas is certainly not an isolationist by that time and willingly takes his place in the Fellowship to try to save all of Middle-earth.
I think the choice of actor for Prince of the Woodland Realm has been as great as other members of both casts. Bloom is elegant, athletic, cool but thoughtful. I was very touched by his reaction to Gandalf's apparent death in Fellowship, both outside of Moria and in responding to the elvish singing in Lothlorien. I expect to be impressed by his elvish grief (which will take him completely by surprise, I imagine) in the last Hobbit film.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Oct 2 2014, 7:37am
Post #6 of 43
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I see the differences but have an opposite reaction - meh
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The WETA books have helped me a great deal in appreciating the culture of these "less wise, but more dangerous elves" and love the concept and thought behind these elves who live in this far more threatening realm as compared to a place like Rivendell. So I would not expect Legolas here to be as warm, say, as he was in LOTR.
But, IMO, tho Bloom may have matured as an actor, the presented tough guy persona is not a role that sits easily on him - Bloom never seems to do well in those situations, or as a primary leader. Often to me in DOS, Bloom seems to be straining - the orc interrogation being an example. He's been serviceable, not great.
PJ may love the idea of some BOFA event changing a character that much, but for me it is a trite device that kind of ruins the mystique of the LOTR Legolas.
As has been posted before, it's not wholly Bloom; IMO it would have been far more interesting to see Legolas clashing with his father, some early hint of this being a more "open" elf. But that characterization went to Tauriel, and there ended up not being much opportunity for Bloom to do anything but be an unsympathetic tough guy - a part he is not credible in.
Hó , Það sé ég föður minn
Hó , Það sé ég móður mína, og Hó, Það sé ég bræður mínir og systur mínar
Hó , Það sé ég mitt fólk aftur í byrjun
Hó, gera Þeir kalla til mín, og bjóða mér að taka minn stað meðal þeirra í sölum Valhallar
Hvar hugrakkir mun lifa að eilífu
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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 2 2014, 7:55am
Post #7 of 43
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No - just Legolas at an earlier stage...
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In The Hobbit they're imagining Legolas as the king's son among his own people, with no real experience of the outside world and consequently a very narrow outlook.
And that outlook is poised to change. I'd say that we have seen glimpses of the Legolas we already know in his conversations with his father and with Tauriel - maybe not so much in what he says but in his whole demeanour, the look in his eyes, the decision to follow Tauriel. And he is taking it all in - Bard's home and family - the existence of an orc he can't easily defeat. I think you're really jumping to conclusions here - remember that there are still vital pieces of the story missing. Whatever happens to him in the final instalment will make a difference.
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Arannir
Valinor
Oct 2 2014, 8:55am
Post #8 of 43
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He was always one of my least favourite Tolkien character... book, LotR movies and TH movies.
Though I find his personality in TH logical - the unexperienced King's son.
Could have done without his "evil looks" at Kili though... that would have saved us the (blown out of proportion) whole triangle debate.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Oct 2 2014, 9:42am
Post #9 of 43
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With most of what has been said in response to your post.
I wasn't a big fan of the Legolas of LotR, mainly due to the actor's poor acting abilities. He was just about OK, though, because he appeared with so many other characters that one could more or less ignore him, and at least he looked OK.
In the Hobbit he is worse, because he looks and acts much older, has been given some very bad facial make-up and ruins the scenes he appears in to the point that I have to leave the room in the Laketown and Barrels scenes. Basically, he comes across as an unpleasant, embittered character and his whole presence in the film is forced. For me, he has affected the admittedly not very impressive LotR Legolas in a detrimental way.
Legolas is one of two reasons why I can no longer love these films, following DoS – though there are still characters I really like (Thorin, Gandalf, Bard and Smaug for example), and the visuals are superb.
There…
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Oct 2 2014, 9:49am)
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Lindele
Gondor
Oct 2 2014, 1:03pm
Post #10 of 43
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In a story/movie or series of movies the audience is more engaged if a character(s) goes on a journey and learns something by the end or grows throughout the story. This is a unique tactic in assuring that the audience not only enjoys the story but can in some way relate to the character and feel more involved in the story and the character's journey.
This strategy has been a large part of storytelling since, well, really the beginning of time.
So to answer your question, yes, Legolas is different in The Hobbit. If he was the same as he was in LOTR, then we wouldn't be going on any journey as a character in the Middle-earth story and would therefore be much less interesting.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Oct 2 2014, 1:08pm
Post #11 of 43
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I agree, he seems very different
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He's a lot colder and rougher than we are used to, but I think one major factor in the difference is that in The Hobbit we are seeing him dealing with strange dwarves who have entered his homeland without permission. There is no Gandalf, no wise, patient Elrond, no Aragorn to act as a buffer between elves and dwarves. In the Hobbit, he's on his home turf confronting people he's been taught to dislike, and with no particular reason to care about their mission. In LOTR he's out in the wide world, away from his "comfort zone" so to speak, and part of a mixed group that is on the most important mission possible, namely to save the world, where personal feelings have to be put aside. It was a shock at first to see Legolas being so callous, but it does kind of make sense in the context of the situation and story. And when you remember the way he slaughtered orcs right and left in LOTR, it does remind you that he has a tough, warrior side to him that is always there, ready to come out.
__________________
If this is to end in barrels, then we will all shampoo together.
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Noria
Gondor
Oct 2 2014, 1:38pm
Post #12 of 43
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It makes him more interesting.
I agree about the character arc and that Legolas starts out in DoS as the prince of a small isolated realm, son of a king who openly acknowledges that he thinks he and his son are superior to his people and that he cares for nothing outside his own borders. Legolas is a big fish in a very tiny pond. Now he's out in the wide world experiencing new things and experience changes everyone.
He's already shown some signs of change just by following Tauriel to Laketown.
It will be interesting to see how Legolas of The Hobbit transitions to Legolas of LotR, which is what I expect to happen by the end of TBOTFA.
(This post was edited by Noria on Oct 2 2014, 1:38pm)
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Oct 2 2014, 3:26pm
Post #13 of 43
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1. Leggy was NOT in the First Film
2. Shows up about a third of the way
in the Second film...
He izz jus' GETTING STARTED?
in more ways than one.
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Darkstone
Immortal
Oct 2 2014, 4:25pm
Post #14 of 43
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PJ made the exact same mistake in LOTR.
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ROTK Legolas is much different from FOTR Legolas.
I won't even mention the big inconsistences between the FOTR versus ROTK characterizations of Frodo, Sam, and others.
Really, how hard is it to keep characterizations straight?
******************************************
"My friend,” said Gandalf, “you had horses, and deeds of arms, and the free fields; but she, born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man, whom she loved as a father, and watch him falling into a mean dishonoured dotage; and her part seemed to her more ignoble than that of the staff he leaned on.
“Think you that Wormtongue had poison only for Théoden's ears? ‘Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among their dogs?’ Have you not heard those words before? Saruman spoke them, the teacher of Wormtongue. Though I do not doubt that Wormtongue at home wrapped their meaning in terms more cunning. My lord, if your sister's love for you, and her will still bent to her duty, had not restrained her lips; you might have heard even such things as these escape them. But who knows what she spoke to the darkness, alone, in the bitter watches of the night, when all her life seemed shrinking, and the walls of her bower closing in about her, a hutch to trammel some wild thing in?”
“I'm gonna wash Rohan right outa my hair,
I'm gonna wash Rohan right outa my hair,
I'm gonna wash Rohan right outa my hair,
And I’ll be on my way!
“If a land don't understand you,
No matter how many regimes,
Saddle up, do not wait,
Don’t waste time at the weapontake.
Muster out of that roll call.
Ride Windfola out to your dreams!
“If the house of Eorl is nothing more,
Than a barn where brigands drink,
Their brats and dogs roll on the floor,
Then you know what the door is for,
Muster out of that roll call,
Wash Rohan into the sink!
“I'm gonna wash Rohan right outa my hair,
I'm gonna wash Rohan right outa my hair,
I'm gonna wash Rohan right outa my hair,
And I’ll be on my way!"
-Rodgers and Hammerstein, The Lord of the Rings
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Oct 2 2014, 4:37pm)
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moreorless
Gondor
Oct 2 2014, 5:44pm
Post #15 of 43
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Speaking for myself, I like Legolas' sharper demeanor here. It gives Bloom something else to play, and I think he's quite good in the films. He's certainly matured as an actor and I like his delivery (especially in moments such as when he takes Orcrist from Thorin). I look forward to seeing how he segues into the character we (many of us, anyway) know and love from LotR.
I think its a case that both Bloom has grown as an actor and Legolas in the Hobbit film has become a more interesting role. In LOTR he was really more of a foil for Viggo and Reese Davis, we saw a bit of advancement in his relationship with Gimli but most of the change there is coming from the Dwarf side.
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Oct 2 2014, 5:58pm
Post #16 of 43
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I see Legolas' inclusion in the Hobbit films
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as pretty much a failure, both in his integration into the story and in his performance. We'll see how it turns out in BotFA, but so far it's not working at all for me and it might have been better to just have left it out.
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Elessar
Valinor
Oct 2 2014, 6:25pm
Post #17 of 43
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it's his character arc. I for one am enjoying him being there and seeing how he becomes the character we get by the end of ROTK.
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Ithilisa
Rivendell
Oct 3 2014, 12:57am
Post #18 of 43
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Clearly something happens in the next film (I'm assuming as relates to Tauriel and his relationship with her) that has a profound effect on him and leads the character into who we meet as he rides into Rivendell in The Fellowship of the Ring.
This is not uncommon in storytelling. Characters often undergo dramatic changes, turning from unlikeable to likeable and vice versa (try watching Breaking Bad for a prime example of this). It's fair if you don't like Legolas thus far in The Hobbit compared to who he is in LotR (that's your prerogative), but there is a method to PJ's madness (so to speak ) here. Thank you, I have learned something today. I had never heard of a character arc before. That does make sense. I just hope Peter Jackson does bridge that gap between the two forms of the character in BO5A. I just hope it doesn't involve too much screen time; I understand that Legolas is part of the story, but I've gone to see TH because I'm interested in what Bilbo, the dwarves, and Gandalf are doing.
"I name you Elf-friend; and may the stars shine upon the end of your road!" - Gildor
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 3 2014, 5:10am
Post #19 of 43
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He has been directed to act out
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his role this way in the two first 'Hobbit' films, by the director obviously, so he shouldn't be blamed for this unsympathetic Legolas. In the third film it is quite possible that he is directed to start to change even more visibly than he already does before...
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 3 2014, 5:21am
Post #20 of 43
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In complete agreement with you //
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 3 2014, 5:30am
Post #21 of 43
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Of course Legolas appears in 'The Hobbit' only from the second film on, and not, as I said im my post above, in the first two films...! But I hope my meaning was clear anyway in spite of this blunder!  
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 3 2014, 5:33am
Post #22 of 43
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I see it that way too ...Well said! //
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 3 2014, 5:47am
Post #23 of 43
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I am really glad this younger Legolas is there...
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It was such a great opportunity to show him at an earlier stage of his existence, and in this 'at home ' context, for me it makes the character all the more interesting. It is quite good background building, I would say. And still some basic traits of him will still be obviously there in the LOTR period, both in a beautiful and amusing way... I like him! 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 3 2014, 11:24am
Post #24 of 43
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I don't find him unsympathetic in DoS. I liked him anyway - before there were any Lord of the Rings films, even the Bakshi one, Legolas was one of my favourite characters so I had a head start.
And watching him in DoS as a younger, sharper character it's more a question (for me) of thinking 'you will learn' - he's still Legolas.
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moreorless
Gondor
Oct 3 2014, 12:10pm
Post #25 of 43
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as pretty much a failure, both in his integration into the story and in his performance. We'll see how it turns out in BotFA, but so far it's not working at all for me and it might have been better to just have left it out.
When I first heard about Legolas returning it was one of the aspects of the films I was least confident about. it felt like it would be pandering to (mostly female I would guess) fans of bloom and serve little purpose.
As it turns out though so far I think its actually turned out well. By shifting the character in a less friendly direction they have both avoided merely repeating themselves and helped get across the Elf/Dwaven fued more successfully.
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