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JamesPaganini
Rivendell
Sep 28 2014, 5:02pm
Post #1 of 47
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How do we think the Kili/Tauriel romance will play out in BOTFA
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So, I will admit, I am a huge fan of their story, I thought it was a beautiful addition to the Hobbit, with the feast of starlight scene being my favourite scene from DOS. Now I recall Evangeline Lilly saying that the Kili/Tauriel sub-plot is not that important to the overall story and it doesn't effect things much. I was disappointed by this as it doesn't make sense for PJ and co to put this potential romance in the story for no good reason. I have always believed that Tauriel will depart middle earth in the third film, possibly because of Kili's death. What does everyone else think?
Not all those who wander are Lost
Darkness must pass. A new day will come and when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer.
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kilifili
The Shire
Sep 28 2014, 5:34pm
Post #2 of 47
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I really enjoyed all of the Kili/Tauriel scenes, even the infamous healingscene. I always tear up a bit when it comes to Kilis lines "She walks in starlight in another world".
But I still hope their romance will not effect the way Kili and Fili will die. They should die defending Thorin. And for Tauriel I guess she will sail into the west after Kilis death. If she is not dying as well.
And somewhere I read E. Lilly mentioning that there will be a scene beside the lake where the runestone will play a role as well...
Ohh, cant wait for TBOTFA!
“And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.”
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JamesPaganini
Rivendell
Sep 28 2014, 6:21pm
Post #4 of 47
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I'm 100% sure you will be disappointed then.
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Not all those who wander are Lost
Darkness must pass. A new day will come and when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer.
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Sep 28 2014, 6:57pm
Post #5 of 47
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I bet we'll see more of these lovebirds
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Although I don't really see it as a romance. More like a friendship, with certain interest from Kilis part.
I don't mind these Kili/Tauriel scenes, because I do think the feast of starlight-scene is written beautifully and Kili's words after the healing were quite romantic. I just wish they had left Legolas out of it. It was a weird decision making it a love triangle.
Anyway, I suppose there will be some romantic moments in the film to 1) make Kili's character even more relatable so that the audience will mourn his death and 2) making Legolas even more disgusted with dwarves because of Tauriels interest in them and 3) raising the emotional stakes for the battle of the five armies.
Can't say I am looking forward to these scenes myself, I just hope they will make the movie better and not worse!
(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Sep 28 2014, 6:57pm)
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dubulous
Rohan
Sep 28 2014, 6:59pm
Post #6 of 47
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I'd rather not think of it at all
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The less said about it the better. I wish it would be dropped but I have little hope of it happening.
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Farficom
Rivendell
Sep 28 2014, 7:32pm
Post #7 of 47
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I would much rather have seen more Beorn than goofy stuff about things being in ones trousers. Regardless, I think that it will end with the two being separated... but most likely suffering the same fate.
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Kelly of Water's Edge
Rohan
Sep 28 2014, 8:08pm
Post #8 of 47
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Tauriel will hopefully have nothing to do with their deaths. That moment should be all about Thorin and his nephews. In my opinion, the situation has enough pathos as it is.
I also think they have to be very careful about having neither Tauriel or Legolas become too close to any of the dwarves. To do otherwise would lessen Legolas' subsequent friendship with Gimli (which has already been given a brief nod in DOS), which was supposed to have been groundbreaking. As it is, they're already treading on very thin ice with Tauriel and Kili and may have gone too far.
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Sep 28 2014, 8:33pm
Post #9 of 47
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I believe it was put in because the Studio told them to. This does make sense as, when it comes to creative input, the phrases 'Studio' and 'no good reason' are generally found in the same sentence.
I was disappointed by this as it doesn't make sense for PJ and co to put this potential romance in the story for no good reason
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
Sep 28 2014, 8:37pm
Post #10 of 47
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And I realize there are a lot of people with negative feelings about their addition but I agree it is beautifully done by PJ and is a favorite part of the films for me. I am thinking Tauriel will die, sad as that will be, because that is the only thing that would make Legolas' later feelings about dwarves make sense. I will be enjoying it though regardless of how it ends. 
"And so they stood on the walls of the city of Gondor, and a great wind rose and blew, and their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air."
(This post was edited by DaughterofLaketown on Sep 28 2014, 8:37pm)
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Sep 28 2014, 9:09pm
Post #12 of 47
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get squashed by a troll, and will have to be buried together because they have become literally inseparable. That's quite romantic, surely.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Sep 28 2014, 10:14pm
Post #13 of 47
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That's just about what I think
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The less said about it the better. I wish it would be dropped but I have little hope of it happening.
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Holly Hobbit
Bree
Sep 29 2014, 12:03am
Post #14 of 47
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I could see it going either way...
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with her either dying or leaving Middle-Earth. And since the Professor didn't create Tauriel as a character, all we can do at this point is guess.
I don't mind Kili and Tauriel having a friendship. In fact, I like the couple a lot. But I'd much rather keep the relationship in a friendship dynamic like we saw in the second movie. The reason their relationship seems special (to me) is that it's more realistic than the 99% of other Hollywood relationships where it's just instant love. They actually acted like people at the beginning of a relationship in real life - just talking, getting to know each other a little bit. Tauriel and Kili have a relationship of respect and inspiring each other rather than romance, and I'd like it kept that way. No kisses. No Kili sneaking out of the mountain at night to try to meet Tauriel for a talk somewhere. And honestly, if they didn't have any more scenes together at all, I'd be fine with that.
One thing I've been thinking about: in the book, Kili (along with Fili) is one of the Dwarves who is unhappy with Thorin's actions in kicking out Bilbo and the way he was behaving in regard to the Arkenstone/treasure. I've read (I think from Richard in an interview somewhere) that Kili and Thorin would have some character development scenes together in the third movie, and I'm wondering if they might get in a fight with Tauriel as a possible catalyst? She may or may not be mentioned in a (heated) conversation between Thorin and Kili, but she would be one more reason why Kili would not want his uncle to go to war. Kili and Tauriel have found a relationship of peace, and Kili might be upset that Thorin would essentially be declaring war on her and her people in the Battle of the Five Armies. I don't know where PJ will go with this, but when I consider Kili's really upset facial expression in the trailer when Thorin says "I will have war!" plus the fact that Kili will have some major character development in the third movie and already was upset with Thorin in the book, I think there's a good chance that we could see Thorin and Kili having a disagreement. (Of course, in the book, Thorin was disagreeing with pretty much everyone in the end, not just Kili... but Peter would of course give more depth to this on the big screen.)
And as for Tauriel's fate, I hate to venture a guess because I really don't know and probably will be wrong. But if she dies, I want it to be separate from Fili and Kili and Thorin. Thorin (and the audience) will learn a huge lesson about the effects of greed when his innocent nephews are killed in battle. Adding Tauriel to that changes the impact and (imo) cheapens it into another "romantic sacrifice" thing.
Whether or not Tauriel survives or not though, a rough road lies ahead for her and Kili. She looked so tearful in the banner for the Battle of the Five Armies, so she's definitely going to experience a lot of grief...  I heard that Evangeline Lilly said that Tauriel's ending would be tragic. But does that necessarily mean she will die? Maybe she will leave Middle-Earth after she witnesses the death of someone she cared about. Could Thranduil banish her for disobeying his orders (and going into danger with his son)? Maybe she wouldn't care at that point because of the carnage she had witnessed. One thing that is so beautiful about Kili and Tauriel's friendship is that they symbolize hope for each other and inspire each other to think about "the world beyond what they know." It would make sense that Kili's death would symbolize the death of hope for her.
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Holly Hobbit
Bree
Sep 29 2014, 12:23am
Post #15 of 47
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I didn't know that before either!
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I just had a horrible thought... what if the scene Evangeline is talking about is Tauriel wandering the battlefield after the battle and she finds the runestone lying on the ground and just knows?
I'm imagining her picking it up now and holding it close while crying... What a sad thought.
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Bladerunner
Gondor
Sep 29 2014, 12:48am
Post #16 of 47
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Just a shadow and a thought...
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I hope the "romance" plays out to be far far less than the Eowyn/Aragorn "romance."
The less I see and hear about it in the movie the better.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Sep 29 2014, 1:18am
Post #17 of 47
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I'm very curious to see how this plays out
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but I'm hoping for and expecting something realistic and restrained and appropriate to their Middle Earth societies. They each owe fealty to opposing kings and as events spiral out of control and war between their people seems imminent, they will have to face the fact that they may soon be fighting on opposite sides, which, IMHO, is enough drama for this relationship. Also, in the book, Thorin shoots an arrow at one of the heralds who come to the gates of Erebor and it would be interesting to see Kili's reaction if it happened to be Tauriel.
In a strange way, it's the orcs who become a force for good at the BOTFA, in the sense that their attack prevents the "good" people - elves, dwarves and men - from committing the immoral act of slaughtering each other for gold.
__________________
If this is to end in barrels, then we will all shampoo together.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 29 2014, 8:01am
Post #18 of 47
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It will play out in some way because it would be nonsense to open a storyline like that and then drop it without trace. But I don't see it taking very much screen time or developing romantically at all for one simple practical reason. Tauriel is twice Kili's height. It would be very difficult visually to create anything like an Arwen and Aragorn on the bridge scene, even if they wanted to, without the whole thing being open to parody. They've already had to frame the shared scenes very carefully to minimise the difference in scale, or simply cut from one character to another. It's very hard to show the two of them in the same shot. The mood that was created in the 'feast of Starlight' conversation is delicate and beautifully pitched and goes about as far as the can go, I think.
So I'm guessing - and hoping - that they will use Tauriel and her sympathy for Kili to underline the tragedy of his fate as Tolkien devised it rather than take Kili's story in a different direction. No idea how - but I wouldn't be surprised if the runestone plays some part.
And I could be wrong. And often am! 
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Imladris18
Lorien
Sep 29 2014, 1:01pm
Post #19 of 47
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Tauriel will make it clear to Kili that he must be friendzoned, and that will be the end of this "romance." In DoS, there was a lot of curiosity and fondness, but I never got any reciprocating romantic vibes from Tauriel. I believe it is all just a tease to get people talking for film 3.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 29 2014, 2:17pm
Post #20 of 47
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I just had a horrible thought... what if the scene Evangeline is talking about is Tauriel wandering the battlefield after the battle and she finds the runestone lying on the ground and just knows? I'm imagining her picking it up now and holding it close while crying... What a sad thought.
In the context of the new article in Total Film, I could see that. I'm not so sure about someone's earlier notion of Tauriel sailing into the West. Did Wood-elves have that option? Legolas did, but he was a Sinda.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Elthir
Grey Havens
Sep 29 2014, 7:36pm
Post #21 of 47
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In chapter Lothlorien Legolas says: '... Anduin flows into the Bay of Belfalas whence the Elves of Lorien set sail.'
And in The Last Debate he says to Imrahil :'It is long since the people of Nimrodel left the woodlands of Lothlorien, and still one may see that not all sailed from Amroth's haven west over water.' Appendix B 1981: 'Many of the Silvan Elves of Lorien flee South. Amroth and Nimrodel are lost.'
And since Appendix F states that most of the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien are East-elves and not Eldar (which again, need not mean Avari according to The Lord of the Rings itself), and the Sindar are Eldar, and there seems to be no restriction on generally stating that the Silvan Elves set sail... for myself I see no reason to think the Silvan Elves of either realm cannot sail Over Sea...
... an idea supported in the late text Amroth and Nimrodel (Unfinished Tales), where Nimrodel is revealed to not be of the Grey-elves.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 29 2014, 7:50pm
Post #22 of 47
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Just because LotR doesn't use the term doesn't make it any less so. But, yes, the tale of Nimrodel does set a precedence for Silvan Elves being allowed to sail into the West. However, I do not think that they were subject to the same sea-longing as the Teleri (unless there were Wood-elves that shared Teleri blood).
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Elthir
Grey Havens
Sep 29 2014, 8:18pm
Post #23 of 47
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Just because LotR doesn't use the term doesn't make it any less so.
Well I said the East-elves need not be Avari according to The Lord of the Rings (just because they are 'not Eldar' there).
But what makes it so that the East-Elves are Avari?
(This post was edited by Elthir on Sep 29 2014, 8:18pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 29 2014, 9:50pm
Post #24 of 47
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Just because LotR doesn't use the term doesn't make it any less so. Well I said the East-elves need not be Avari according to The Lord of the Rings (just because they are 'not Eldar' there). But what makes it so that the East-Elves are Avari?
All Elves that aren't counted among the Eldar are Avari. There were those who took part in the Great Journey (and their descendants) and those who did not. There were no others.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Elthir
Grey Havens
Sep 30 2014, 12:59pm
Post #25 of 47
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Default. All Elves that aren't counted among the Eldar are Avari. There were those who took part in the Great Journey (and their descendants) and those who did not. There were no others.
Well, the question was, what makes it so that the East-elves of Mirkwood and Lorien are Avari? And according to very late text (Unfinished Tales) the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien are Telerin Elves who began the Great Journey.
What you are doing here is seemingly taking what I'm saying about Eldar from The Lord of the Rings -- which makes these Elves 'not Eldar' but not necessarily Avari... and since we can call them 'not Eldar' based on that conception, you then employ the Silmarillion different definition to conclude they must be Avari. But it's rather:
The Lord of the Rings
The Silvan Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien are East-elves, not Eldar (in Middle-earth terms only the Noldor and Sindar are Eldar), but never stated to be Avari.
Posthumously published work
The Silvan Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien are Eldar in the sense of taking up the March, according to The Silmarillion index. These Telerin Elves are, interestingly, called Eldar 'in origin' in a late Unfinished Tales text.
In neither scenario are these Silvan Elves necessarily Avari. In Quendi And Eldar it was said that certain of the Lindarin Avari ultimately mixed with these Telerin Elves in the Anduin Vale, but in a later text in Unfinished Tales we have Telerin Nandor 'hardly to be distinguished from Avari' from a cultural perspective.
(This post was edited by Elthir on Sep 30 2014, 1:07pm)
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This is interesting. I haven't heard this mentioned before.
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