In Reply To

So let me be the first
First of all: out of all the five pictures, don't you think Thranduil is the one who really stands out in appearance? He looks every bit of the King he is. Surely must be the shiney, silvery/golden hair

Definitely! Thanks for being the first Whether crowned or crownless, he is the most majestic one of all

In Reply To

Immediately thought of the other Elven leaders, Elrond, Galadriel /Celeborn and eventually Legolas. But I see you've got that covered later in your topic. They don't officially call themselves King/Queen of their Realm, they are the Lords and Lady of their 'Kingdom'. That leads me to this question: why is Thranduil called a King (when the other current Elven leaders do not share this title)?

I think this has something to do with the ME framework and the respective histories of the leaders. It's not all laid out but here's a few articles on Michael Martinez' site that, imo, address part of the question and delve into the idea of titles

• Could Anyone Start a Kingdom in Middle-earth?
• Did Tolkien Use the Divine Right of Kings in Middle-earth?
  
• Bonus: Is Legolas an Elven Prince?
  

In Reply To

Good question! How did you come up with it? I haven't really given it any thought until now. Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I read it, your question involves about the relationship between the different ME leaders, in relation to Thranduil/Eryn Lasgalen?

Ah, thanks! It may be shocking but I have an interest in sociology and international politics (though I've sort of given up on reading newspapers in recent times due to the abject depression and the general never-learn-your-lesson dysfunction that's just getting aggravated over the years)... cos of where I live and how international events always got an impact on this tiny piece of earth I call home, plus the government's unending efforts to "build" international relationships/goodwill. So I applied that interest to FA, but with Thranduil as the focus Pretty moribund and mundane eh?

But yes to your question.


Nice note on Rohan's proximity! Dale would probably be a respective ally/trade-partner of EL but you're right. I don't think Thranduil and Bard would be particularly close, especially as I believe Thranduil would have killer negotiator savvy and any EL/Dale trade pacts may have Bard frowning a little at the end despite the friendly ties they have

Gondor... the interesting thing is that practically, I think any relation EL has with Gondor may be through/with the Legolas/Faramir route rather than directly between the two Kings Thranduil and Aragorn. After all, Faramir as the Steward is the one running the day-to-day, and Legolas is the one running things in the Elven settlement there. Probably some officious stuff may require Kingly signatures from time to time, but I also don't see any practical ties between Thranduil and Aragorn. Well, except if Aragorn did indeed pass through Mirkwood in his adventuresome youth and have personal rapport with Thranduil during that journeying, which is entirely possible given their shared long-ago heritage.

In Reply To

Hmm don't think Thranduil would ever visit the Shire. Maybe he would pass through it while on his way to the West?

Yeah. And Aragorn does decree that the Shire be left alone. I'd imagine he'd set the Rangers to ensure that, and unless Elves are going to the Grey Havens, they wouldn't have any reason to be in the Shire, much less do a return visit the other way. So, any interactions would probably be through snail mail only. Well, unless mothmail becomes prevalent or the Eagles diversify and start postal services.

In Reply To

It is not recorded when he sought the Grey Havens and sailed west, but when he did so he took with him the last memory of the Elder Days in Middle-earth.

&

Isn't it odd that there are no recordings of both Thranduil and Celeborn of ever leaving ME to sail West? Another thing they have in common (the list keeps on growing).

I think this just means Celeborn does ultimately set sail, though it's not known exactly when. The intriguing bit is, if he's the last, does it refer to recent history only, or all through ME history? If the former, which I prefer, then there's still the window for Thranduil sailing on also. If the latter... bummer! BUT we know historical records are never perfectly accurate so I hope

Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII


Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk

We get plenty of examples here on Earth about the realities of that: the lovely Spratlys, that perennial example of contentious claims for want of a less sensitive representation of a most sensitive topic, is the obvious tip of that iceberg. Even the two most recent territorial/military incursions/events are based on that to a certain extent.

At least in this particular event in ME, among the Free Peoples, things are a lot more civilised - Thranduil's going in only after hearing the news. Yes, I know, it's probably something he's been hoping for a while with regards to Smaug leaving the building, but for the Dwarves, he did express regret and a smidgeon of solidarity at their presumed demise. He's not the total jerk the world at large seem to want paint him as just cos. And as a long-lived ruler, I see his decision to go grab treasure as sound decision-making on his part to ensure that wealth and by extension power did not fall into the grabby paws of orcs or worse. What better way than to have it come to his people? Of course we know ultimately, after learning the realities of the situation, he stepped aside and renounced all claims - which has to be informed in part by relations between Mirkwood and Laketown. But as you point out, I think the neglect of this will hurt the Laketown story-arc because the audience won't get or buy why Thranduil so readily step aside, after the impression they've gotten of him thus far.
[Tangent: Hmm... it may look so, but really, I am not a Thranduil apologist, even though I am his Thrall I feel it's not just pure altruism on his part (though I don't question his altruism per se) to just step aside for Bard's claim, simply because with his savvy, he's not going to just lend support to someone or his claim if he doesn't have some knowledge of that someone. Thranduil wasn't born yesterday: if he had any suspicion that Bard's claim may be detrimental to Mirkwood in anyway he would have challenged Laketown's claim. In that sense, the story would have benefitted so much more even from a little insight on Mirkwood-Laketown beyond that little spiel by Bard on how the Master depends on Mirkwood for all the trade and wouldn't dare cross Thranduil in any way. Just a few frames of that Laketown pub-crawl of Elves and Men would have helped heaps already.]

Anyway, I don't see how Thranduil's actions with regards to the treasure and his support of Bard's claim could be attributed to a treasure-crazed caricature. I think his conduct speaks so much better of his character and history as a ruler than many may deem. Definitely it's much more than can be said for Earthy real-life examples.

All right, I'll stop here even though I don't see any signal source problems, but as I have no influence on receivers, best to leave it now as I don't want to spend the weekend dealing with views formed of insistently garbled reception. That's not to say I can't deal with opposing views, at least I hope I have conducted myself competently in that regard. I just don't have interest in conversing with or through insistent misunderstandings.

Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII


Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk