|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Sep 22 2014, 3:01am
Post #51 of 206
(5628 views)
Shortcut
|
Power couples & the ME nobles' connections to Sindar
[In reply to]
|
|
|
I was trying to hold out til after Quenta Silmarillion is done but I guess it'd be too long to get on this train since I've overshot the readalong schedule So here goes. It's a very lovely piece of analysis of C&G. What intrigues me, and I'm glad I'm not the only who thinks so is expressed so well by you, Kerewyn:
It also expressed some of the reservations I've been enjoying having about Galadriel. The nice, wise, good High Elf with the deeply surpressed power drive. The author notes the questionability of some of her actions. More excellent food for thought, so thanks for sharing! She is definitely not the nice perfect Elf LotR the book and movie make her out to be. And I like that. Who wants the boring perfection of goodness personified? Not me anyway.
I think in addition to what we've been told in the Sil about her setting out for a realm to rule and her half-disclosure stunt with Melian, this sums up Mrs C perfectly
In fact, given the Curse of Mandos which lies over Galadriel - that all she begins will come to ruin in the end - there's a distinct possibility that it's only Celeborn's mitigating presence which has kept Lorien on the map for so long.
&
Possessing the Ring changed Galadriel for the worse, it increased her sea-longing and took away her joy in Middle Earth, and no doubt had the same effect on the other two bearers. The decision to take it very much repeats the theme of her departing Valinor against the will of the Valar in order to seek power for herself. No wonder - knowing her history - Celeborn was so stressed about letting the One Ring inside Lorien, where Galadriel could get her hands on it. Trophy husband Mr C... I wouldn't mind if that's the definition of an Elven one... though of course I much prefer his kindman to the north and east of his pad
And harking back to VValar's earlier link to the proposition of close kinship between Celeborn and Thranduil, and just the importance of Sindar in ME, I love these bits:
To expect Celeborn to be gentle and courtly and faintly regretful is to expect him to behave like a member of a different race. He's not an Exile, yearning to return to Valinor, like Galadriel and Gildor, or a ringbearer, afflicted with the melancholy of Sea-longing, like Elrond. He's a Sindar; fiercer, more changeable, more emotionally involved in Middle Earth; operating in a different mode of elvishness than the other elf-lords in the book.
&
But there's a case to be made for the Sindar being more effective in Middle Earth in the long term. It's through the Sindar that the line of the Kings of Men comes into the world. It's through them that the Silmaril of Earendil escapes the clutches of the Feanorians in order to become the Evenstar. They are guiltless of the kind of atrocities to which the Noldor seem prone. They have not murdered their own kind in kinslaying, nor have they rebelled against the Valar and been cursed for it. And, of the four elven kingdoms still surviving in the third age, there is not one without a ruler of (at least some) Sindar blood. To be dismissive of Sindar is to ignore the ties the clan has to the ruling Elves of ME, and the ultimate ruler of Man in FA - Aragorn. And so given the histories and genealogies of the various Very Important Elves (and half-elves) of ME that do exist, I don't think the Mirkwood rulers would be just some two-bit Sindar noble line just cos of a missing genealogy from the prof .
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
 Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Sep 22 2014, 3:02am
Post #52 of 206
(5636 views)
Shortcut
|
That's a new one
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Sep 22 2014, 3:06am
Post #53 of 206
(5620 views)
Shortcut
|
Hmm... I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now, but I guess it would work the better for dramatic effect to have Thranduil resist the thought of joining in the fight even with Gandalf's beseeching him at first. The LA has really taken its toll on both Thranduil and his people. The cost of this skirmish saving the folk of Lake-town/Dale(?) must have brought back a lot of unhappy memories for his own losses.
.
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Sep 22 2014, 3:08am
Post #54 of 206
(5619 views)
Shortcut
|
Love furry cuteness though hmmm... you seem extra tentatively tip-toey this time.
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Sep 22 2014, 3:14am)
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Sep 22 2014, 3:21am
Post #55 of 206
(5823 views)
Shortcut
|
BTS Easter Egg Find (BEEF) - More Unexpected Flash of Elf (UFE)
[In reply to]
|
|
|
*hopes no one is running away screaming from acronym overload*
Have we got BEEF? I would think so  Especially @Eruvandi: another one of those "Something, something, something, something, elf!, something, something, someething" moment.
http://it-am-i.tumblr.com/...ng-a-hobbit-set-with
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Sep 22 2014, 10:52am
Post #56 of 206
(5611 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Fellow Thralls: BotFA Time Capsule in honour of Bilbo's birthday
[In reply to]
|
|
|
Have a look here and hope to see you there
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
|
|
|
Kerewyn
Rohan
Sep 22 2014, 12:31pm
Post #57 of 206
(5604 views)
Shortcut
|
..this might be the one place I can confess that I'm quite the fangirl of Conchita Wurst.*
(I sometimes suspect I might be a gay man trapped in a woman's body  )
Anyway ... *whistles nonchalantly* ... back to the topic....
*google her if unfamiliar
"Thou speakest of thralldom. If thralldom it be, thou canst not escape it..."
|
|
|
Kerewyn
Rohan
Sep 22 2014, 12:41pm
Post #59 of 206
(5577 views)
Shortcut
|
...to see if LP is wearing shorts, or pyjama pants, or just a baggy hippy-style number.
Yes, a small glimpse of flesh does appear. But I do suggest you check for yourself.
"Thou speakest of thralldom. If thralldom it be, thou canst not escape it..."
|
|
|
Kerewyn
Rohan
Sep 22 2014, 12:58pm
Post #60 of 206
(5601 views)
Shortcut
|
She is definitely not the nice perfect Elf LotR the book and movie make her out to be. And I like that. Who wants the boring perfection of goodness personified? Not me anyway.
I've mentioned before that meeting Thranduil got me far more interested in Elves in general. My LOTR movie impression (and remember I'm a movie-firster) from Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn and Arwen was that Elves were all good and slightly boring folk who liked to waft around in robes, being all ephemeral and wise and other-worldly, and are far above the more "human" qualities of men, hobbits and dwarves. Then the Silm and the kin-slaying changed all that forever.
Reading that Galadriel was eager to harken to Feanor's words and forsake Valinor made me go 'riggght'. Suddenly her temptation over the One Ring had a background for me.
If she hadn't Celeborn, I wonder if she'd still be alive. But it's quite stunning to realise she is one of the few beings who was in Valinor at the start, and is still there in the Third Age.
Yes, the Sindar are becoming my preferred race among the Elves. (Quite rad for a Took-loving hobbit-fancier, though my heart will always be there).
"Thou speakest of thralldom. If thralldom it be, thou canst not escape it..."
|
|
|
Kerewyn
Rohan
Sep 22 2014, 1:01pm
Post #61 of 206
(5571 views)
Shortcut
|
I will, endeavour to take part before the closing date!
You're a star for starting this, what a great idea.
"Thou speakest of thralldom. If thralldom it be, thou canst not escape it..."
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Sep 22 2014, 2:01pm
Post #62 of 206
(5563 views)
Shortcut
|
I do like that pic of Tauriel, it's very dramatic!
Re the scene from the trailer that the Leggy gif is from: I actually took a screen cap of Tauriel and Legolas in that scene and set it as my Twitter background. He-he!
"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Sep 22 2014, 2:26pm
Post #63 of 206
(5606 views)
Shortcut
|
Very nice! *happily saves pic* I really admire those who can paint and draw stuff like this. It's practically photo quality!
"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Sep 22 2014, 3:28pm
Post #64 of 206
(5556 views)
Shortcut
|
Oooooh, so *that* is what's going on in that pic! That explains the scene from the trailer where Thranduil is looking at all the dead bodies, and it confirms that the Dol Guldur stuff will happen before Botfa. Otherwise, Gandalf wouldn't be able to be there.
I wasn't expecting any skirmishes to happen before Botfa, but it makes sense that the Laketowners who are weak from having their town destroyed would be preyed upon by orcs. The aftermath should also help set up or at least re-enforce Thranduil's attitude that he will tarry long before starting a war over gold.
It's all getting so exciting! SQUEEE!
P.S. I guess this also means that background, horn-blowing-elf-guy lives through the skirmish, but I still say he'll be an elven red-shirt for Botfa! Poor horn-blowing-elf-guy...
"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
|
|
|
ltnjmy
Rivendell
Sep 22 2014, 3:58pm
Post #65 of 206
(5579 views)
Shortcut
|
|
My Sassy King Looks So Nice in his Armor on Bubba
[In reply to]
|
|
|
Quite tasty my precious...
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Sep 22 2014, 4:00pm
Post #66 of 206
(5667 views)
Shortcut
|
I hereby dub LP a "Ninja-Hugger." Not because he hugs ninjas, mind you, but because he's sneaky like a ninja when he hugs people in the Vlogs and appendices and it takes everyone forever to realize it was even him! First it was a dwarf and now some guy from the film crew. Will the sneaky hugging never end?!
On a separate note, I notice that he's always taller than the people he's hugging. *swoon*
"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
|
|
|
VValar
Gondor
Sep 22 2014, 6:26pm
Post #67 of 206
(5536 views)
Shortcut
|
Thanks for posting your question/discussion starter and what a nice picture you found of all current FA Kings. I don't think anyone has replied to your topic just yet? So let me be the first
First of all: out of all the five pictures, don't you think Thranduil is the one who really stands out in appearance? He looks every bit of the King he is. Surely must be the shiney, silvery/golden hair
1. Aragorn, King of Men and the Reunited Kingdom
2. Eomer, King of Rohan
3. Thranduil, King of Eryn Lasgalen
4. Thorin III, King Under The Mountain
5. Bard II, King of Dale
6. Anyone missing?
Immediately thought of the other Elven leaders, Elrond, Galadriel /Celeborn and eventually Legolas. But I see you've got that covered later in your topic. They don't officially call themselves King/Queen of their Realm, they are the Lords and Lady of their 'Kingdom'. That leads me to this question: why is Thranduil called a King (when the other current Elven leaders do not share this title)?
Got me thinking: with all that happens in BotFA and in LotR, which of course includes the War of the Ring, what is the diplomacy and relations these Kings maintain in FA?
Good question! How did you come up with it? I haven't really given it any thought until now. Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I read it, your question involves about the relationship between the different ME leaders, in relation to Thranduil/Eryn Lasgalen?
It got me to revisit the ME map (http://blog.lefigaro.fr/...middle-earth-map.jpg) for a quick peek. For some reason I had been wrong all along in my assumption that Rohan laid further apart from Mirkwood than Gondor did. Which it doesn't. So yeah, I guess if Thranduil wanted to visit Legolas in Ithilien, he would have to cross through Rohan first. And he would be bound to come across some of its poplulation sooner or later. Therefor I assume he would be on reasonable good terms with them. Although I don't see EL-Rohan as very close allies, more like OK neighbours. If any of the Realms of Men would be considered a fairly close ally, it would be Gondor because Aragorn - Legolas' close friendship.
I think Dale/LT would have good political agreements with EL due to its trading/buying and of course, like you stated, the friendship Thranduil had established with Bard in BoFA. Although I'm not sure if they can be considered close friends, because I haven't actually read TH and have no insight in how their relationship is going to play out in the end. I know the storyline to a large extent but that's about it. Assuming Bard and Thranduil would befriend, that would be a positive development for the current trading they already had going.
Hmm don't think Thranduil would ever visit the Shire. Maybe he would pass through it while on his way to the West?
As for Lothlorien, we know Galadriel sailed West, along with Elrond, Gandalf, Frodo and Bilbo. Celeborn, however, did not:
Celeborn returned to Lothlórien, but the power of Nenya was broken. It no longer was filled with the light and life it had before. Galadriel shortly after passed West with the other Ring-bearers. and Celeborn, weary, moved to Imladris to live with Elladan and Elrohir, Elrond’s sons. After Círdan's departure Celeborn was the last of the Wise in Middle-earth, they that had seen the glory of Valinor and the struggles of Elvenkind. It is not recorded when he sought the Grey Havens and sailed west, but when he did so he took with him the last memory of the Elder Days in Middle-earth.
Isn't it odd that there are no recordings of both Thranduil and Celeborn of ever leaving ME to sail West? Another thing they have in common (the list keeps on growing).
So where does this leave Lothlorien, and more specifically the Sindar Elves living in Lorien, without its leaders? I'm guessing most of these Elves either sailed West or sought other Elven establishments. Maybe they went along with Celeborn to live in Rivendell. Or maybe they went on and lived in Eryn Lasgalen.
|
|
|
VValar
Gondor
Sep 22 2014, 6:34pm
Post #68 of 206
(5538 views)
Shortcut
|
I am still most curious about how Thranduil will make the decision to leave the Woodland Realm. I guess it happens early in the movie, since he will have to prepare an army and march all the way to Dale!
Those were my exact thoughts too. Knowing what happens in Dale and the reluctancy Thranduil shows in participating in the War makes me sooooo curious to the actual moment where Thranduil decides to stand by his allies in the upcoming War.
And good thinking about it must be happening early in the movie because of the time it takes to travel towards Dale. Though I do think they will go through that timeframe pretty fast (like they did in RotK f.e.) so the audience wouldn't understand how much time has passed since. I mean, look at how fast the Dwarves, Legolas and Tauriel arrived in Laketown. Oh and the Orcs as well. Must take Thranduil and his big ass army a couple of movie-minutes (if we're lucky, otherwise it will more be like movie-seconds) to scoot over to Dale and beyond.
|
|
|
VValar
Gondor
Sep 22 2014, 6:37pm
Post #69 of 206
(5547 views)
Shortcut
|
I have seen it before and loved it. I think I even marked it as 'fav' on deviantart *checks*. Nope I haven't marked it as fav, but it looks familiair. Thanks for posting!
|
|
|
VValar
Gondor
Sep 22 2014, 6:46pm
Post #70 of 206
(5545 views)
Shortcut
|
Looks like it's LP's Thranduil to me, same nose.
Maybe the double's purpose is not for stunts but just for a in-shot stand-in so Thranduil can emote to Legolas without OB being there?
Good thinking, hadn't considered that myself but yeah that could also be a reason for the double to be present. Must make acting more easy when you have someone to focus on.
That makes me think of something Liv Tyler once said about the kiss Arwen/Aragorn had in RotK. They wanted her to preform the scene with a double of Aragorn and she just couldn't do it. So eventually they had Viggo flown in to do the scene with her. That was a great call IMO, wouldn't want to think of Arwen and fake Aragorn making out in one of the defining scenes of RotK.
|
|
|
VValar
Gondor
Sep 22 2014, 6:53pm
Post #71 of 206
(5522 views)
Shortcut
|
I think I might be developing a fetisj for Thranduil in armour (if I haven't already ). I mean look at him, just look...... He simply looks amazing. Can't imagine any other Elf to look as good in armour as Thranduil Well Leggy would look very handsome in his Elvenarmour as well, being his father's son after all, but still can't hold a candle toThrandy.
Makes me wonder: do you think Legolas will be wearing any armour in the Battle of the Five Armies? We haven't seen any photos of him yet in the upcoming battle. I know he didn't wear any in the War o/t Ring. Surely Thranduil must have brought along some protective gear Leggy?
|
|
|
VValar
Gondor
Sep 22 2014, 6:55pm
Post #72 of 206
(5534 views)
Shortcut
|
Yeah figured the white liquid being milk heh I actually thought it was Thranduil doing the cooking and the drinking, but turns out by your translation it's the other way around.
|
|
|
VValar
Gondor
Sep 22 2014, 7:05pm
Post #73 of 206
(5508 views)
Shortcut
|
Yes it's a shame and it's well overdue but I still haven't read TH. And it's such a little book, I should be able to read it long before the movie comes out in dec. But seeing as I haven't, I can't think of the reason Thranduil must have had (other than him wanting to protect Leggy) to march to Dale - LT. What does it say in the book about his decision? Surely it must not be purely treasure-driven motive? Because it's like your avatar states so nicely, he doesn't strike me as one to gather his army solely to get some of the spoils.
|
|
|
VValar
Gondor
Sep 22 2014, 7:16pm
Post #75 of 206
(5530 views)
Shortcut
|
Seriously she would be the ultimate Dwarf lady (if only she would shrink a little).
(Still the Dutch should've won the Eurovision Song Contest )
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for that *spoiler comments*
[
