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Arannir
Valinor
Sep 18 2014, 11:36am
Post #1 of 16
(1774 views)
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Independence of Scotland - yay or nay?
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Maybe some Scottish folks are around who could give us their personal experiences and feelings regarding that important day for Scotland (either way) today.
I think the one thing that all can agree on is that it is a good thing this matter is settled in a democratic vote. Such matters were solved much more violently between England and Scotland over the centuries and still are in other parts of the world (even Europe).
So I think we can open this poll here without the fear of over-heated fights :)
As far as LotR and TH-connected people are concerned, I saw Ken Stott and Annie Lennox are supporting the "Yes" campaign. Ian McKellen is in the "no" camp.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Sep 18 2014, 11:43am)
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Sep 18 2014, 12:13pm
Post #2 of 16
(1630 views)
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I was watching people go to the polls on BBC America this morning
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When I think about what is at stake and how this same question is being answered with bullets instead of ballots in other places in the world, it makes me tear up a bit to see people heading peacefully to the polls in Scotland. I'm not Scottish and don't even have Scottish heritage so I have no opinion either way. I'm just glad the Scottish people get to express theirs in a peaceful way.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Sep 18 2014, 12:41pm
Post #3 of 16
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I'm not a big fan of Gordon Brown, but his speech brings a tear to the eye. Better together. In a world of current turmoil, we should stick together.
And I'm not sure whether the decision to desolve a 307 year Union should be decided by only 4% of the population, since the impacts affect every British person. The United Kingdom is the most successful union the world has ever seen (and probably will ever see). It owes its success to the variety of its peoples and their tolerance of one another's differences. If it ain't broke don't fix it. It deserves to continue.
Despite this, my family in Scotland are voting yes.
Whatever the outcome, tomorrow will mark history for the United Kingdom.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Sep 18 2014, 12:56pm)
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Annael
Immortal
Sep 18 2014, 4:06pm
Post #4 of 16
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I've got a strong Scottish (MacGregor) heritage, as well as being descended from folks who came over on the Mayflower seeking religious freedom from England's state religion, and so there's a part of me that wants to see Scotland as an independent nation. And certainly the trend in the last few decades is away from "empires" to separate countries, as with the breakup of the former Soviet Union. Yes, these breakups cause problems, but one could argue that the roots of the problem lie in the original takeover. Would we have had the conflict between Muslims & Hindus in India/Pakistan if the Brits had never ruled India? And what if they'd stayed out of the Middle East? The Vietnam War could be seen as a consequence of the French domination of the area. So, while I can see an independent Scotland as creating a lot of problems in the short term, the long term results may be . . . better?
Empires crumble, we know this from history, especially when they extend too far. (Americans need to remember this whenever they argue that it's OUR personal responsibility to maintain "freedom" in the entire world.)
Also, I just like the idea of regions getting to run things the way they like. Up here in Ecotopia, I'm not particularly happy about the influence of the opposite corner of the US on what is taught in our schools, women's access to health care, etc.
On the other hand, I see the world moving toward a global identity instead of national ones. The Internet has broken down borders in a way no one could have foreseen 50 years ago. We've had plenty of lessons in the reality of the global economy and global effects on the environment from what happens in just one part of the world.
So it's complicated, and I answered "don't know." We'll just have to see how it plays out.
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acheron
Gondor
Sep 18 2014, 11:00pm
Post #6 of 16
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looks like there was a lot of turnout
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CNN reporting 110% turnout. As they say on Twitter, #journalism #math
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Sep 18 2014, 11:31pm
Post #7 of 16
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That's an epic data entry fail. I'm sure they meant 42 and 48, but this is far more entertaining. Note to poll runners: there are some instances where rounding up is not appropriate. 
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Sep 18 2014, 11:32pm
Post #8 of 16
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BTW a polling booth in Falkirk has closed early because they had a 100% turnout of the enrolled voters.
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor
Sep 18 2014, 11:57pm
Post #9 of 16
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Yep, I feel too conflicted to decide.
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Part of me has joked for years about going over there to free Scotland, but another part of me doesn't know what's best for those actually living there and is Scottish-American enough to not want to tell them what to do.
I've also just discovered another genetic line going back to the old Scottish kings, so it's been a wild week already.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Sep 19 2014, 1:09am
Post #10 of 16
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Is anyone outside of Scotland watching the votes come in?
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I'm watching on BBC World News. It's fascinating! It's like watching election night in the US with all the tallies and graphs and talking heads pontificating on what it means for the entire result after 2 % of the votes are in. What I think is amazing is the turnout numbers - anywhere for 75% to 98%. Whatever you decide - you go Scotland!
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Sep 19 2014, 2:27am
Post #11 of 16
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Don't know enough about it to say, but
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Alan Cumming wrote this piece for the New York Times, and said pretty much the same thing when i saw him on Hardball earlier today, and he does make a persuasive case.
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Kelvarhin
Half-elven
Sep 19 2014, 6:39am
Post #12 of 16
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Both Mr Kel and I were ambivalent on this one
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Mr Kel is half Scot (his Dad) so for both of us, our hearts said Yes, but head-wise (Mr Kel is an Accountant) were thinking No.
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Arannir
Valinor
Sep 19 2014, 7:29am
Post #13 of 16
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Well, I feel a little bit relieved.
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From a personal perspective, I would have disliked seeing the country I lived in for almost two years breaking up. I loved how I was asked everywhere - whether on English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish soil - "How do you like it in the UK? Why are you in the UK? etc" .
The future of an independent Scotland seemed rather vague and uncertain in the end.
I hope Westminster now sees what went wrong in the past and that they will have to make their promises from this morning a reality as soon as possible - for Scotland, but also for Wales and N-Ireland.
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Sep 19 2014, 2:42pm
Post #14 of 16
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And i hope that the strong showing and close results will show England that those "other" countries in the U.K. need to play a more significant role in the political process, and have more say in what goes on in their part of the commonwealth. It seems that England's 'attitude' towards Scotland, Ireland and Wales have a lot to do with the unrest, for lack of a better word.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Sep 19 2014, 3:12pm
Post #15 of 16
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I'm just so impressed with the whole thing
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People voting in record numbers, polls open and closed without incident, no violence reported after the results were announced (that I've seen on BBC World News or CNN in the States). It is all so... civilized. I heard some heated rhetoric from both sides and some trolls crawled out from under rocks to make comments online, but all-in-all it was what I would want to see for any country. I'm sure I am missing some of the underlying politics as I'm not up on all the nuances of each party, but the behavior of the Scottish people is what I applaud. They had their debate, they put their case to the people, the people turned out to vote and have their say, the votes were counted and now everyone is getting behind the result and looking to what comes next. I just can't express how happy I am to see a system work like that.
We're having Shepard's Pie and Oatcakes in their honor tonight for dinner!
(This post was edited by Dame Ioreth on Sep 19 2014, 3:13pm)
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DanielLB
Immortal
Sep 20 2014, 3:33pm
Post #16 of 16
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I hope Westminster now sees what went wrong in the past and that they will have to make their promises from this morning a reality as soon as possible - for Scotland, but also for Wales and N-Ireland.
As I said in my post above, family of mine who still live in Scotland voted yes. They have been very vocal at how disappointed they have been with the result. There has also been civil unrest between rival Unionists and independence supporters in Glasgow, which is pathetic. I believe that if our country is too move forward, we need to stop dividing ourselves into categories. It doesn't matter any more if you voted Yes or No, if you're one of the 45% or 55%, or if you live in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland or England. We need to be the 100% and work together to have a louder voice and get the change we want not only in Scotland, but across the United Kingdom.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Sep 20 2014, 3:37pm)
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