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jtarkey
Rohan
Sep 15 2014, 1:30am
Post #1 of 18
(1088 views)
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Another recent, soon to be, trilogy involving a dragon...
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I'm not trying to bash The Hobbit here, it just recently occurred to me that this new franchise is everything I wanted The Hobbit to be...
How to Train your Dragon
It has the emotional depth and childlike wonder that I find oddly absent in the Hobbit films thus far. I won't go into any more depth, it just felt like a good example of what I wanted The Hobbit to feel like. The details are obviously different, but the tone of these animated films feels mature, emotional, and playfully. They are such unexpected achievement.
Anyone feel the same? Do you feel The Hobbit reflected the atmosphere of the original story well? I would love to hear thoughts on both sides of the fence!
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.
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Elessar
Valinor
Sep 15 2014, 2:13am
Post #2 of 18
(557 views)
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The HTTYD films are fantastic films. They're easy to get into, well done, and just plain fun. The Hobbit films have been amazing, IMO. They've gone with a bit more serious tone to match the LOTR films thus making them be different. I don't even think the book is the same as the HTTYD films. So for me both have been amazing experiences and I wouldn't change the tone of either.
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dubulous
Rohan
Sep 15 2014, 6:47am
Post #3 of 18
(488 views)
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I enjoyed both HTTYD movies well enough, but thought them both pretty simplistic and not as emotional as they were trying to be. I could see the emotional elements but I didn't really feel them.
For me, it would have been a pretty big disappointment if the Hobbit movies had turned out like that.
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Arannir
Valinor
Sep 15 2014, 7:09am
Post #4 of 18
(445 views)
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... and at least the first part of HTTYD I liked very much as well.
However, I always had hoped for this expanded and embellished Hobbit. I am not a big fan of the book's style, to be honest, and am therefore probably far more "forgiving" when it comes to these tonal changes.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 15 2014, 8:07am
Post #5 of 18
(427 views)
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I haven't seen 'How to train your dragon', so it would be....
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.. a bit silly for me to make any comment about it, negative or positive. All I've seen are trailers.
But as far as wonder and emotional depth are concerned, I find them in The Hobbit in shedloads. A few things that spring to mind instantly: Bilbo in Rivendell; Thorin and Balin reacting to their first entry to Erebor since the dragon came - 'Far over the Misty Mountains' sung in Bag End - the 'Feast of Starlight' - Beorn and the mouse - Smaug confronting the golden statue - I could go on, and on.... - and over-arching all, the sheer, glorious complexity and visual magic of the design, and the performance of the actors, which in my view no cartoon could ever match.
The Hobbit films aren't exactly like the book. They have picked up on the different tone of the book, particularly in AUJ, but have gone beyond it also with the deeper, darker tone of LotR. I'd say the atmosphere of the original story is there, but it isn't all that's there. A simpler, more childlike adaptation might have been a better reflection of the book but in the context of being made by the film-making team who made the previous trilogy I think that approach would have disappointed a lot of people.
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jtarkey
Rohan
Sep 15 2014, 8:08am
Post #6 of 18
(427 views)
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In both films, hiccup and toothless are on the same journey but in different ways. Such a great use of irony.
When hiccup Lost his leg, I was astounded by how genius and brave it was for a children's film. Just excellent storytelling that doesn't talk down to kids.
The magic in these films is that I don't think of them as films for kids. Just a great, emotionally rich story that happens to be animated.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.
(This post was edited by jtarkey on Sep 15 2014, 8:11am)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 15 2014, 11:52am
Post #7 of 18
(363 views)
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Frankly, I'm more excited about 'The Dragonriders of Pern'
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The Dragonriders of Pern was probably the first fantasy/s.f. series that I read that dealt heavily with geopolitics and sociological change. Also, the characters all spoke with naturalistic rhythms that never sounded stilted.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Noria
Gondor
Sep 15 2014, 12:22pm
Post #8 of 18
(353 views)
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What Elessar, dubulous, Arannir and dormouse said
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I saw the first HTTYD movie and quite enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun and very well executed, but just a lovely, well done children’s movie as far as I am concerned.
For me the Hobbit movies are much deeper and richer, more emotional and satisfying.
jtarkey, IIRC you prefer The Hobbit novel to the LotR book, do you not? So I can kind of see your liking for HTTYD better than these Hobbit movies.
Interesting that Dragonriders of Pern is being filmed. I read most of that series decades ago and also enjoyed the geopolitical/sociological aspects (which is what I like about SF). Eventually I was put off by the way the novels’ antagonists were usually idiots, as well as a tinge of the bodice-ripper. But in the right hands they could be good movies.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 15 2014, 1:11pm
Post #9 of 18
(336 views)
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I think a lot of children's stories include the death or injury to....
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... a central character. It's something children do think a lot about. Thinking back to the books I really loved at ages, say 7 to 13, death, loss, serious injury was often present as a main or subsidiary theme. Just off the top of my head - The Hobbit, Narnia, The Chronicles of Prydain - even the Green Knowe books. I don't find it particularly surprising that a children's film should pick up on that too.
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Arannir
Valinor
Sep 15 2014, 1:48pm
Post #10 of 18
(326 views)
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I am surely not the only one...
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... who probably suffered a mild childhood trauma when Bambi's mother was shot?!
Or when Mufasa died...
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Sep 15 2014, 3:33pm
Post #12 of 18
(309 views)
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O-s!.... here is a Great link...
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http://www.slashfilm.com/dragonriders-of-pern-movie/
Only read the first three...Didn't know there are
22 Books...Wowie!
That will KEEP Bomby Busy
until December, @Least!
thank you for the Reminder...WayCOOL!
bom
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Sep 15 2014, 6:48pm
Post #13 of 18
(256 views)
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I like both the Hobbit and the How to Train your Dragon movie series'.
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They're both different from the books they're based on, but that also makes them interesting. There are still things in the books that I wish had made it to the films, though.
However, I always had hoped for this expanded and embellished Hobbit.
Same here. I like the book, but I also want to know 'the rest of the story'.
Speaking of Pern, I really hope they do a good job, but I'm a little wary after what I've read about previous attempts at adaptations.
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Sep 15 2014, 7:19pm
Post #14 of 18
(261 views)
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The book was much much better.
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The movie turned everything into standard Hollywood tropes: the culture is changed into "kill all dragons!", the loving mother is dead, the father is changed from a caring compassionate parent into a neglectful jerk, the kid is left to fend all on his own, his girlfriend is a Xena Viking warrioress...
Wow. How original.
******************************************
Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and the darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City:
There's a Great Darkness over the Pelennor,
There's a Great Darkness over the Pelennor!
Our spears’ nowhere as high as an Oliphaunt’s eye,
And the field’s full of orcs, wargs and huge Olog-hai!
Oh what a Rohirrim morning,
Oh what a Rohirrim day!
We've got a wonderful feeling,
We shall kill thousands today!
Oh, we’ll kill us some Easterling Variags,
And know we’re not given to idle brags,
We’ll battle and vanquish the Black Serpent King,
And even an undying dwimmerlaik thing!
Oh what a Rohirrim morning,
Oh what a Rohirrim day!
We've got a wonderful feeling,
We shall kill thousands today!
-Rodgers and Hammerstein, The Lord of the Rings
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Faleel
Rohan
Sep 15 2014, 7:35pm
Post #15 of 18
(255 views)
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Author didn't have a problem with it.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 15 2014, 8:07pm
Post #16 of 18
(234 views)
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Adapting Dragonriders while keeping true to the subtleties and complexities of the books is going to be very challenging. We'll see if WB is up to the challenge.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Darkstone
Immortal
Sep 15 2014, 8:10pm
Post #17 of 18
(241 views)
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...she didn't have a problem with the ice capades version, the arena spectacular version, the darker and grittier television series version, or the eight or so video game versions.
******************************************
Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and the darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City:
There's a Great Darkness over the Pelennor,
There's a Great Darkness over the Pelennor!
Our spears’ nowhere as high as an Oliphaunt’s eye,
And the field’s full of orcs, wargs and huge Olog-hai!
Oh what a Rohirrim morning,
Oh what a Rohirrim day!
We've got a wonderful feeling,
We shall kill thousands today!
Oh, we’ll kill us some Easterling Variags,
And know we’re not given to idle brags,
We’ll battle and vanquish the Black Serpent King,
And even an undying dwimmerlaik thing!
Oh what a Rohirrim morning,
Oh what a Rohirrim day!
We've got a wonderful feeling,
We shall kill thousands today!
-Rodgers and Hammerstein, The Lord of the Rings
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Sep 16 2014, 1:47am
Post #18 of 18
(215 views)
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I recommend you read the remaining Pern books in this order: Dragonsong, Dragonsinger: Harper of Pern, Dragondrums, Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern, Nerilka's Story and the Coelura, Dragon's Dawn, and then the rest of them. (Personally I think the quality falls off after Dragon's Dawn.)
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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