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boldog
Rohan
Sep 9 2014, 10:13am
Post #1 of 27
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So where is Legolas and Bolgs story going to go in TBOT5A?
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The way it ends in DOS, with Legolas chasing bolg out of laketown, gives the viewer the idea that Legolas is up for a great chase. But in the new trailer, we see Legolas in the laketown survivors camp, on the shore of the lake. This is obviously not long after smaugs demise. Now in that short span of time, I dont think Legolas followed Bolg all the way back to Dol Guldur, and then came back.
It seems to me that at some point, Legolas is going to turn back to help the people, mainly due to his fondness of Tauriel, id presume. But then what does this mean of Bolg? Will he just continue heading back to Dol Guldur?
If this is the case though, it seems to me to be very anti climatic. All the build up of a huge chase, that leaves the audience, wanting to know whats going to happen next, to just have Legolas turn around, is pretty dull. Though id much rather he does turn back, because he belongs in the north, rather than Dol Guldur in the south. Leave that for the white council please.
Thoughts?
I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Sep 9 2014, 12:29pm
Post #2 of 27
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A pointless scene created to give the Legolas in the film version 'something to do', in my view. 
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Arandir
Gondor
Sep 9 2014, 1:42pm
Post #3 of 27
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I accepted with some difficulty the change of bringing Legolas to Lake-town (I'm still fearful about his, and Tauriel's, intervention during Smaug's attack), but I enjoyed the little scene with him against Bolg.
What was most important in that brief encounter was to show us the physical strength and abilities of Bolg - over and above the common orc - elevating his status as a worthy opponent during the climax of the Battle.
As to the whole chase sequence, I'm suspecting (more hoping) that what we saw in DoS was the end of it.
Whilst, as I said, I enjoyed the combat scene between Legolas and Bolg, I hope the screenwriters haven't led themselves into some sort of private revenge of the Elf on the Orc. No one should interfere with Bolg except those characters that do in the novel (spoilers spoilers).
I'm thinking that TBOTFA will focus on the attack on Lake-town, and possibly showing Legolas giving up the hunt and go back to help the people. Bolg, in the meantime, joins with Azog and the rest of the army ...
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(This post was edited by Arandir on Sep 9 2014, 1:46pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 9 2014, 3:12pm
Post #4 of 27
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Legolas will be near enough to see what happens to Laketown and that will make him forget Bolg and turn back. The confrontation between them served several purposes in the story - one was certainly to get him out of Laketown before Smaug arrives. As for his turning back (if he does), I can't see that as any sort of anti-climax. It makes the same point as Tolkien made in having the Elvenking turn aside from his march on the Mountain to help the survivors of Laketown. The elves are 'a good and kindly people.' It's what they do.
Bolg will turn up in the battle. What he does in between is his own business, far as I'm concerned.
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tsmith675
Gondor
Sep 9 2014, 3:25pm
Post #5 of 27
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Looked to me like Bolg wanted Legolas to follow him.
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Maybe it's "undoubtedly a trap." Bolg seems to wait to leave until he sees Legolas. Maybe he wanted Legolas to follow.
Our destiny lies above us.
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Bishop
Gondor
Sep 9 2014, 4:07pm
Post #6 of 27
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And if you think that Jackson is going to give up the opportunity to have Legolas doing all kinds of high flying acrobatics during the destruction of Lake-town, you can forget it! I'm sure Legolas will give up the pursuit of Bolg as soon as he sees Smaug.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Sep 9 2014, 5:51pm
Post #7 of 27
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Could it be that Legolas will be the agent
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To bring Thranduil etc from Mirkwood and his isolationism? He'll need to find out about Smaug and change his mind somehow.
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
Sep 9 2014, 5:53pm
Post #8 of 27
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This is the only thing that makes sense to me
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He will have to fight Bolg to resolve the plot and the get Thranduil.
"And so they stood on the walls of the city of Gondor, and a great wind rose and blew, and their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air."
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DanielLB
Immortal
Sep 9 2014, 7:42pm
Post #9 of 27
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The next time Bolg and Legolas meet will be on the battlefield
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There's no need for any other confrontation before then.
I believe the Legolas-Bolg confrontation was deliberately placed by the film-makers, to get Legolas out of Lake-town. They [PJ and co.] probably wrote themselves into this corner - they wanted to include him, but also had to limit his appearance. Both Legolas and Bard are excellent archers, so story wise, they *had* to get Legolas out of Lake-town. If Legolas can bring down an Oliphaunt, he might have a good chance of bringing down Smaug - and that would make Bard (and his entire story) redundant.
So luckily, Legolas and Bard aren't really in the same place at all, thus solving this problem.
This is how I see it playing out: Legolas may or may not catch up with Bolg at the beginning of TABA, but I imagine he'll just see the attack on Lake-town from afar. Legolas is conflicted as to where he should go - help Lake-town or follow Bolg? He arrives too late to kill Smaug, but enough time to save/aid/help Tauriel et al. Both Tauriel and Legolas end up in Dale, with the rest of the Lake-towners. Thranduil sends rides out to claim his share of the treasure, and aid the men of Dale. Bolg will then return to Dol Guldur, telling the Necromancer that Thorin has reached the Mountain (and Smaug is dead - maybe Bolg watches from afar too?) The Necromancer sends out the army, not realising that the White Council are on their way. He hasn't kept enough numbers at Dol Guldur, meaning the Battle of Dol Guldur is a pretty easy win for the good guys.
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Rickster
Rohan
Sep 9 2014, 11:00pm
Post #10 of 27
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We can't wait to see it all happening in the movie
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Sep 9 2014, 11:07pm
Post #11 of 27
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Hasn't the army already left Dol Guldur in DOS?
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DanielLB
Immortal
Sep 10 2014, 1:35pm
Post #12 of 27
(759 views)
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I can't re-watch the particular clip of Gandalf watching the gathering army right now; but are they leaving or entering Dol Guldur?
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moreorless
Gondor
Sep 10 2014, 7:19pm
Post #13 of 27
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I can't re-watch the particular clip of Gandalf watching the gathering army right now; but are they leaving or entering Dol Guldur?
My memory is that its pretty clearly inferred that there leaving, it followed Smaug's speech about darkness spreading and the Orcs are holding banners(no Azog leading though as far as I remember).
Nothing is said about exactly where there going to my memory so it could well be that theres room for news of Smaug's death and laketowns destruction to have an effect.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Sep 10 2014, 8:43pm
Post #14 of 27
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Definitely leaving - had a quick check.
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It isn't specified where they are marching to specifically but I think all the suggestions in the rest of the film would imply to Erebor.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 10 2014, 9:16pm
Post #15 of 27
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I can't re-watch the particular clip of Gandalf watching the gathering army right now; but are they leaving or entering Dol Guldur?
It is strongly implied in the movie that the Orcs are marching out of Dol Guldur. If they are headed directly to the Lonely Mountain, the assumption would be that Smaug is still in control of Erebor, so the goal might be to secure the dragon's aid. On the other hand, their immediate orders might be to march to the Misty Mountains and increase their numbers by enlisting the goblins both there and remaining in the Grey Mountains north of Mirkwood. Then, after learning of Smaug's demise, they can show up at Erebor with a considerably larger force!
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 11 2014, 7:59am
Post #17 of 27
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Screenwriters don't create pointless scenes....
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... there'd be no point (remembering that their aim is to produce the best possible film.) They will have had reasons for putting Legolas in Laketown and reasons for getting him out of hte way before Smaug arrives. The challenge is to work out what those reasons were!
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Sep 11 2014, 8:56am
Post #18 of 27
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Screenwriters don't create pointless scenes Of course they do! I've seen this happen before in films. They create pointless scenes in order to justify something they wish to impose on a film, such as a particular actor they think will earn the film money, no matter that the scene he appears in (or his blandness and other things) are highly detrimental to the film. In this case it is patently obvious what has been done – at least to me. Screenwriters engaging in such tactics may argue themselves (and attempt to argue to others) into believing that a scene has a point, is great, etc. In that sense, I suppose, such a scene has 'a point'. For me, this scene and others in DoS featuring this character are embarrassing to the point where I am able to watch them – in a film that I wished would succeed.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Sep 11 2014, 9:06am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 11 2014, 9:09am
Post #19 of 27
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It may be pointless in your eyes, or in the eyes....
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...of any other viewer who doesn't like that particular scene, but that's just another subjective judgement.
Trust me, no screenwriter ever deliberately sets out to add pointless material. Same thing's true about writing books. There may be something they want to add for a particular reason which seems compelling to them, but no professional writer would ever knowingly add something pointless to their writing.
As for suggesting that someone who writes a scene in a film which you find pointless has obviously done this for some cynical reason, arguing themselves into believing that it has a point - I'm sorry, but I find that a bit patronising. Could it not be that they honestly disagreed with you about the scene? They had a genuine point for it, even if you didn't like it?
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cats16
Half-elven
Sep 11 2014, 11:17am
Post #20 of 27
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Aye, all details are motivated.
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Agreed on all accounts.
Come party next week in the Hobbit movie forum, as we celebrate one year's worth of CHOW discussion of the films. Hope to see you there!
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Sep 11 2014, 11:34am
Post #21 of 27
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PJFWPB DON'T write pointless scenes
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Imagine for awhile a WhiteBoard
in one of their Conference Rooms
with All Logistics Teams present...
1. The Over-all Story .. Outline is like a Complex Sentence
Broken down into Sub-paragraphs..leads Teams to Sections of the Storyline
2. A number of Sections are assigned to Dan Henna
to Build Sets (scheduled)
3. One Section is Assigned to Christian Rivers
for Pre-Vis
4. All along is Alan & John Sketching
their Brillant Drawings to team up with each?
5. Sound Effect (Foley) teams go out & Discover unusual sounds
For all sorts of Swords,Props, etc.
Sure, Often Dialogue is Written on Set w/ Fran on the Phone?
**Remember the Extras of AUJ?..where Cate, & Sir Ian
are discussing Motivate for the White Council scene..?**
( Fran was on the phone to them)
Often dialogue is delivered differently
to FIT the "Organics of what is happening ON SET!
...............................................
BUT NEVER pointless.
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Sep 11 2014, 11:42am
Post #22 of 27
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I agree with dormouse on the "points" of scenes
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Trust me, no screenwriter ever deliberately sets out to add pointless material. Same thing's true about writing books. There may be something they want to add for a particular reason which seems compelling to them, but no professional writer would ever knowingly add something pointless to their writing.
but I will concede that not all points are of equal importance in contributing to the unity, beauty, and drive of the film. (Hence the TE vs. the EE...)
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
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elvish.mafia
Bree
Sep 11 2014, 1:02pm
Post #23 of 27
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Watching FOTR after the Hobbit really does taint some of the scenes in fellowship. For example, the Balrog doesn't seem as menacing and Legolas's reaction to it (Hello, you've seen a fire breathing dragon, chill).
After Smaug, the Balrog kinda comes across as a downgrade. Also Legolas must be getting a big serving of humble pie in the next movie to explain why he's no longer an arrogant, stuck up little prince in the LOTR. Or do elves become more tame or mellow with age?
And has anyone entertained the possibility that Thranduil might actually be killed off in this movie?
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Sep 11 2014, 1:13pm
Post #24 of 27
(658 views)
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However, I don't think Thranduil will get killed off in the next film (though I wouldn't put anything past the 'inventiveness' of the film-makers at this point).
(BTW, in my post above it should have read that I am 'unable', not 'able', to watch scenes with Legolas in DoS – to the point where in the cinema during my second viewing I left the room and stood outside it when the scenes featuring him were being shown. It's really that bad for me.)
Watching FOTR after the Hobbit really does taint some of the scenes in fellowship. For example, the Balrog doesn't seem as menacing and Legolas's reaction to it (Hello, you've seen a fire breathing dragon, chill).
After Smaug, the Balrog kinda comes across as a downgrade. Also Legolas must be getting a big serving of humble pie in the next movie to explain why he's no longer an arrogant, stuck up little prince in the LOTR. Or do elves become more tame or mellow with age?
And has anyone entertained the possibility that Thranduil might actually be killed off in this movie?
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Noria
Gondor
Sep 11 2014, 1:29pm
Post #25 of 27
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It has never been clear to me where the Orc army is going, if it is leaving, because it seems unlikely that an army was necessary or even advisable during negotiations with Smaug. How could they force him to do anything? Otaku-sempai, your second scenario seems more plausible to me.
I hope that either the DOS EE or TBOTFA will make that clear, though it doesn't really matter. The Orc army will no doubt end up at Erebor eventually.
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