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TIME - September 9
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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 9 2014, 10:31am

Post #1 of 34 (790 views)
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TIME - September 9 Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 9, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. Elrond foretells.
(not from the appendices)
The Silmarillion
..."Orcs were mustering, and far to the east and the south the wild peoples were arming. Then in the midst of gathering fear and the rumour of war, the foreboding of Elrond was proved true, and the One Ring was indeed found again, by a chance more strange than even Mithrandir had foreseen; and it was hidden from Curunír and from Sauron. For it had been taken from Anduin... ...being found by one of the small fisher-folk that dwelt by the River... ...and by its finder it was brought beyond search into dark hiding under the roots of the mountains. There it dwelt, until even in the year of the assault upon Dol Guldur it was found again, by a wayfarer, fleeing into the depths of the earth from the pursuit of the Orcs, and passed into a far distant country, even to the land of the Periannath... ...the Halflings, who dwelt in the west of Eriador. And ere that day they had been held of small account by Elves and by Men, and neither Sauron nor any of the Wise save Mithrandir had in all their counsels given thought to them."








6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Sep 9 2014, 10:32am)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 10 2014, 10:37am

Post #2 of 34 (708 views)
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TIME - September 10 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth.

September 10-13, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The White Council assaults Dol Guldur.
(not from the appendices-determined from text)
[The White Council ] "... they put forth their strength; and they assailed Dol Guldur, and drove Sauron from his hold, and Mirkwood for a brief while was made wholesome again."

From The Silmarillion
..."But their stroke was too late. For the Dark Lord had foreseen it, and he had long prepared all his movements; and... ...his Nine Servants, had gone before him to make ready for his coming. Therefore his flight was but a feint, and he soon returned, and ere the Wise could prevent him he re-entered his kingdom in Mordor and reared once again the dark towers of Barad-dûr. And in that year the White Council met for the last time, and Curunír withdrew to Isengard, and took counsel with none save himself."



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 10 2014, 8:28pm

Post #3 of 34 (688 views)
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The White Council and Dol Guldur [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not certain, but I think you may be a week or so early with the White Council's attack on Dol Guldur. We know that the assault must have happened in September, but it could not have been too much before Bilbo and the Dwarves (in barrels) reached the end of the Forest River (September 22):


Quote

So you see Bilbo had come in the end by the only road that was any good. It might have been some comfort to Mr. Baggins shivering on the barrels, if he had known that news of this had reached Gandalf far away and given him great anxiety, and that he was in fact finishing his other business (which does not come into this tale) and getting ready to come in search of Thorin's company. But Bilbo did not know it.



Granted, we don't know how long it took the Council to finish up its business at Dol Guldur. Much time might have been spent in searching the stronghold for prisoners, relics and clues to Sauron's plans. Once Dol Guldur was secure, would Gandalf have waited a week to start North?

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 10 2014, 8:38pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 11 2014, 9:48am

Post #4 of 34 (689 views)
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It's time for some BS! [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a Book Spoiler to honour and in memory of the day...for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

September 11 [ 9/11 ]
The Stairs of Cirith Ungol: The Two Towers
[Sam speaking with Frodo] "...we shouldn't be here at all, if we'd known more about it before we started. But I suppose it's often that way. The brave things in the old tales and songs... ...adventures, as I used to call them. I used to think that they were things the wonderful folk of the stories went out and looked for, because they wanted them, because they were exciting and life was a bit dull, a kind of a sport... ...But that's not the way of it with the tales that really mattered, or the ones that stay in the mind. Folk seem to have been just landed in them, usually--their paths were laid that way... ...But I expect they had lots of chances... ...of turning back, only they didn't. And if they had, we shouldn't know, because they'd have been forgotten. We hear about those as just went on--and not all to a good end, mind you; at least not to what folk inside a story and not outside it call a good end. You know, coming home, and finding things all right, though not quite the same--like old Mr. Bilbo. But those aren't always the best tales to hear, though they may be the best tales to get landed in!"





6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 11 2014, 9:58am

Post #5 of 34 (687 views)
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I remember pondering this [In reply to] Can't Post

and looking around at the rest of the events quite a lot... and there is no clear timeline for this. I finally came to the conclusion that eventhough the Council came to Dol Guldur and found they missed their complete mark, they may have spent time searching the entire area and sought out what news they could before arriving at the conclusion he had left.

Then this line made me believe they met again and considered what to do next. They didn't know where the Dark Lord had gone, so what should they do next? Yeah... I rather think there was much more going on after the initial attack before the White Council concluded this incredible endeavour. BUT I promise to relook at my conclusion :)


Quote

...therefore his flight was but a feint, and he soon returned, and ere the Wise could prevent him he re-entered his kingdom in Mordor and reared once again the dark towers of Barad-dûr. And in that year the White Council met for the last time...



I really REALLY appreciate fresh eyes on this. *bows deeply* Thank you Muchly!



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Sep 11 2014, 10:00am)


silneldor
Half-elven


Sep 11 2014, 12:13pm

Post #6 of 34 (680 views)
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Poignant post gramma. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is to be that we experience such times. It is important that we respond with the time given to each of us. It is also vitally important that we all act together, as one people, to secure our country living up to the morals and code of ethics that are engrained in our way of life. Our deepest sense of humanity must prevail.

" 'Fair lady Goldberry!' said Frodo at last, feeling his heart move with a joy that he did not understand. He stood as he had at times stood enchanted by fair elven-voices; but the spell that was now laid upon him was different: less keen and lofty was the delight, but deeper and nearer to mortal heart; marvellous and yet not strange."

Chapter VII: In the House of Tom Bombadil; FOTR's

Faerie contains many things besides elves and fays and besides dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants or dragons; it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky; and the earth, and all things that are one in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted."
— J.R.R. Tolkien














Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 11 2014, 2:38pm

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You make some good points, gramma [In reply to] Can't Post

If Tolkien had written about the actions of the White Council of TA 2941 in more detail, he might not have rushed it through Dol Guldur. There might have been a siege lasting several days and it might have taken several more days just to secure the fortress. We don't even know at what point Sauron withdrew from the stronghold or how he made his escape. Heck, we don't even know just how much there was of an actual battle.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 11 2014, 2:39pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 11 2014, 2:41pm

Post #8 of 34 (668 views)
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Personally... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Saruman tipped him off ;) Nothing to substantiate that... just my own personal venom ;)



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 11 2014, 2:43pm

Post #9 of 34 (669 views)
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Also poignant, sil :) Thank you // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 11 2014, 5:35pm

Post #10 of 34 (667 views)
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Ah, Inside Information [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Makes some sense to me. Didn’t Saruman want Sauron away from the Gladden Fields? And one wonders if Sauron had the Ithil-stone in Dol Guldur.

I think Sauron slunk-off when he found out about the possible attack of the White Council and there was no battle a'tall. Opinion--- Blush

"Excuse me, excuse me. What does God need with a Starship?
James T. Kirk --S.T. V


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 11 2014, 8:27pm

Post #11 of 34 (664 views)
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Hmmm... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Makes some sense to me. Didn’t Saruman want Sauron away from the Gladden Fields? And one wonders if Sauron had the Ithil-stone in Dol Guldur.

I think Sauron slunk-off when he found out about the possible attack of the White Council and there was no battle a'tall. Opinion--- Blush



I think that even in Tolkien's conception there must have been some sort of battle at Dol Guldur. Sauron would not have wanted the Council's victory to look too easy. It isn't as though he would have had any qualms about sacrificing a few of his soldiers.

In the legendarium, of course, the Ithil-stone never left Mordor once it was delivered to Sauron. However, in Jackson's vision it is entirely possible that some agent serving the Necromancer could have stolen the palantir from Isengard and the Dark Lord could have been using the Orthanc-stone to communicate with whichever Nazgul were preparing for his return in Mordor. Saruman could then find and reclaim the palantir in Dol Guldur and return it to Isengard.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 11 2014, 10:17pm

Post #12 of 34 (657 views)
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Well, I didn’t mean to get into another [In reply to] Can't Post

palantiri discussion, (it seems we’ve examined them to a fare-thee-well), but as the Ithil-stone was one of the minor-Stones, it was as portable as the Orthanc Stone. I must have missed your “…of course, the Ithil-stone never left Mordor” somewhere in the books. Perhaps you could steer me on this.

And, of course, we don’t know what “Tolkien’s conception” was for the encounter (if any) at Dol Guldur. (Hate to put conceptions in the mind of the Professor.) There may or may not have been a battle. But, if Sauron had previous knowledge of an attack, as Gramma suggests, it seems reasonable to head Mordor-way where he was to set up anyway.

"Excuse me, excuse me. What does God need with a Starship?
James T. Kirk --S.T. V


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 11 2014, 10:42pm

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Sorry! [In reply to] Can't Post

In previous discussions of the palaniri, the general consensus seemed to be that Sauron probably kept the Ithil-stone exclusively at Mordor; there is really nothing that says he couldn't have brought it to Dol Guldur as long as he took it with him when he withdrew. There have been a number of posters suggesting that film-Saruman could come across the Orthanc-stone in Mirkwood. This is one way that that could have happened.

Gandalf, at the Council of Elrond, does discuss Sauron's defeat at Dol Guldur. He says:

Quote

'Sauron also had watched us, and had long prepared against our stroke, governing Mordor from afar through Minas Morgul, where his Nine servants dwelt, until he was ready. Then he gave way before us, but only feigned to flee, and soon after came to the Dark Tower and openly declared himself.'



This strongly suggests to me that Sauron remained in Dol Guldur until the White Council made its move against him. If he had skived off early, it might have tipped his hand. He needed to at least put up a token fight in order to make the Council think that it had achieved a victory.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 11 2014, 10:46pm)


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 12 2014, 1:21am

Post #14 of 34 (652 views)
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Okay… [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
In previous discussions of the palaniri, the general consensus seemed to be that Sauron probably kept the Ithil-stone exclusively at Mordor; there is really nothing that says he couldn't have brought it to Dol Guldur

The “general consensus” is a “general supposition”. I’m often in the minority – that’s ok. I’m simply attempting to get into the mind of Sauron by putting myself in his position. If I had a palantir and I was going to hole-up in Dol Guldur for a time I would take it with me. It could be quite useful.


Quote
'Sauron also had watched us, and had long prepared against our stroke, governing Mordor from afar through Minas Morgul, where his Nine servants dwelt, until he was ready. Then he gave way before us, but only feigned to flee, and soon after came to the Dark Tower and openly declared himself.'

This quote suggests to you that Sauron stuck around for a token appearance - “but only feigned to flee”. It suggests to me - “Then he gave way before us…..and soon after came to the Dark Tower…”. If Sauron was there would he not at THAT point have“openly declared himself”? I suggest he was gone and there was no encounter.

I reckon this quote can be interpreted according to the reader and we could banter both questions (palantir and presence), but it all comes down to supposition on everyone’s part as the books are vague on both points.

"Excuse me, excuse me. What does God need with a Starship?
James T. Kirk --S.T. V


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 12 2014, 2:12pm

Post #15 of 34 (638 views)
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Sauron was not ready to declare himself. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This quote suggests to you that Sauron stuck around for a token appearance - “but only feigned to flee”. It suggests to me - “Then he gave way before us…..and soon after came to the Dark Tower…”. If Sauron was there would he not at THAT point have“openly declared himself”? I suggest he was gone and there was no encounter.

I reckon this quote can be interpreted according to the reader and we could banter both questions (palantir and presence), but it all comes down to supposition on everyone’s part as the books are vague on both points.



No; in this case, soon was still ten years away. Sauron did not openly declare himself until TA 2951. Apparenty, he did not feel secure enough within Dol Guldur with the White Council already mobilized against him. My guess is that he would have struck at Lothlorien or Rivendell prior to this if only he had managed to secure Smaug's aid in time. The might of the dragon would have tipped the scales and allowed Sauron to swiftly overcome the defenses of Elrond and Galadriel. The Woodland Realm of Thranduil might have been a viable target, but an attack on the Wood-elves of Mirkwood would have likely triggered an immediate response from both Rivendell and Lothlorien--particularly the latter--and Thranduil's folk had a secure refuge that could withstand a prolonged siege.

Sauron had waited too long to strike; he needed to gather and reconsolidate his power in Mordor before he could declare himself.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 12 2014, 6:06pm

Post #16 of 34 (642 views)
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TIME - September 12 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth


September 12, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. Sauron appears in Mordor
(not from the appendices)
[Mordor!!] "That name the hobbits only knew in legends of the dark past, like a shadow in the background of their memories, but it was ominous and disquieting. It seemed that the evil power in Mirkwood had been driven out by the White Council only to reappear in great strength in the old strongholds of Mordor. The Dark Tower had been rebuilt... ...From there the power was spreading far and wide, and away far east and south there were wars and growing fear. Orcs were multiplying again in the mountains. Trolls were abroad, no longer dull-witted, but cunning and armed with dreadful weapons. And there were murmured hints of creatures more terrible than all these, but they had no name."


September 12, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. Life is quiet at Bag End.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...As the cool weather of fall set in, Sam busied himself with matters of the Shire and the garden of Bag End. Frodo enjoyed quiet moments in front of the fire sipping a warm cup of tea as he fondly poured over Bilbo's old maps... and smiled.








6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 12 2014, 8:29pm

Post #17 of 34 (634 views)
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Where's Wald... er Sauron? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
No; in this case, soon was still ten years away. Sauron did not openly declare himself until TA 2951. Apparenty, he did not feel secure enough within Dol Guldur with the White Council already mobilized against him.
Sauron had waited too long to strike; he needed to gather and reconsolidate his power in Mordor before he could declare himself.

”Soon” was Tolkien’s word, not mine. No he didn’t “declare” himself (whatever that might mean) for ten years. So . . . it seems from your comments that you may be amenable to the possibility that Sauron amscrayed before the White Council appeared in Dol Guldur so as NOT to have to declare himself (whatever that might mean? - “Ware! Ware! I am Sauron the Great Deceiver!)

"Excuse me, excuse me. What does God need with a Starship?
James T. Kirk --S.T. V


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 13 2014, 10:02am

Post #18 of 34 (624 views)
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TIME - September 13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 13, 2951
1. Aragorn goes out into the Wild.
(from the appendices)
..."...Elrond saw many things and read many hearts. One day, therefore, before the fall of the year he called Aragorn to his chamber, and he said: "Aragorn, Arathorn's son, Lord of the Dúnedain, listen to me! A great doom awaits you, either to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil, or to fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin. Many years of trial lie before you. You shall neither have wife, nor bind any women to you in troth, until your time comes and you are found worthy of it....' ...Aragorn took leave lovingly of Elrond; and the next day he said farewell to his mother, and to the house of Elrond, and to Arwen, and he went out into the wild."

September 13, 3018 (S.R. 3018)
(not from the appendices)
..."Autumn was well under way before Frodo began to worry about Gandalf again. September was passing and there was still no news of him. The Birthday, and the removal, drew nearer, and still he did not come, or send word."

September 13, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. Celeborn and Galadriel depart, the others set out for Rivendell.
(not from the appendices)
...[The Company lingered near the Silverlode] "...But at length all was said, and they parted again for a while, until it was time for the Three Rings to pass away. Quickly fading into the stones and the shadows the grey-cloaked people of Lórien road towards the mountain; and those who were going to Rivendell sat on the hill and watched, until there came out of the gathering mist a flash; and then they saw no more. Frodo knew that Galadriel had held aloft her ring in token of farewell. Sam turned away and sighed: 'I wish I was going back to Lórien!'"



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 13 2014, 11:37am

Post #19 of 34 (619 views)
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Looks like we need to agree to disagree... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
”Soon” was Tolkien’s word, not mine. No he didn’t “declare” himself (whatever that might mean) for ten years. So . . . it seems from your comments that you may be amenable to the possibility that Sauron amscrayed before the White Council appeared in Dol Guldur so as NOT to have to declare himself (whatever that might mean? - “Ware! Ware! I am Sauron the Great Deceiver!)



Yes, but you quoted Tolkien yourself and suggested that "soon" was within a short time after Sauron left Dol Guldur. It was not, except to folk used to thinking in terms of decades and centuries (Gandalf, Elrond, etc.). When Tolkien wrote that Sauron declared himself openly in Mordor, he was stating that the Dark Lord had dropped the veil of secrecy that he had been hiding behind.

The reason I believe that Sauron did not withdraw from Mirkwood before the arrival of the White Council is that he was attempting (successfully) to deceive the Council into thinking that it had achieved a greater victory than it had actually accomplished. Sauron did not want the Council to realize that he had anticipated its plans; if he had snuck away early, he would have given away the game. Therefore, he had to make at least a token show of resistance against the Council to convince its members that it was their efforts that had driven him from Dol Guldur.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 13 2014, 11:41am)


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 13 2014, 4:46pm

Post #20 of 34 (621 views)
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Otaku says, "Looks like we need to agree to disagree...' [In reply to] Can't Post

Yay! The minority consensus wins again! Tongue

But I'm easy - Sauron WAS there, and he DIDN'T have no dang palantir with him. Wink

And I gotta go over and play Mid Libs - Woopee! Fun City! Smile

"Excuse me, excuse me. What does God need with a Starship?
James T. Kirk --S.T. V


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 13 2014, 8:35pm

Post #21 of 34 (607 views)
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Huzzah! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yay! The minority consensus wins again! Tongue

But I'm easy - Sauron WAS there, and he DIDN'T have no dang palantir with him. Wink

And I gotta go over and play Mid Libs - Woopee! Fun City! Smile



I wasn't trying to convince anyone that it had to be one way or the other, just that there is a strong argument for Sauron's presence up to the end. Now we just need to see what Peter Jackson's position is on the matter.

The new Empire reveals that the only reason he is including pigs, goats and sheep at the Battle of Five Armies is that he thought the idea of the Dwarves arriving on foot was just too boring.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 13 2014, 8:43pm)


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 13 2014, 9:11pm

Post #22 of 34 (608 views)
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Well I meant to say [In reply to] Can't Post

that Sauron WAS there but just didn't "declare himself".

He was actually disguised as a Far Harad revenue agent named Will E. Hornswoggle. CoolCool

"Excuse me, excuse me. What does God need with a Starship?
James T. Kirk --S.T. V


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 14 2014, 9:10pm

Post #23 of 34 (623 views)
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TIME - September 14 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 14, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. A waggon is spotted on the road.
(not from the appendices)
..."Days passed and The Day drew nearer... ...At the end of the second week in September a cart came in through Bywater from the direction of Brandywine Bridge in broad daylight. An old man was driving it all alone. He wore a tall pointed blue hat, a long grey cloak, and a silver scarf. He had a long white beard and bushy eyebrows that stuck out beyond the brim of his hat. Small hobbit-children ran after the cart all through Hobbiton and right up the hill. It had a cargo of fireworks... ...At Bilbo's front door the old man began to unload: there were great bundles of fireworks of all sorts and shapes, each labelled with a large red G and the elf-rune.
...That was Gandalf's mark... ...and the old man was Gandalf the wizard, whose fame in the Shire was due mainly to his skill with fires, smokes, and lights. His real business was far more difficult and dangerous, but the Shire-folk new nothing about it.... ...he was just one of the 'attractions' at the Party.
...When the old man, helped by Bilbo and some dwarves, had finished unloading, Bilbo gave a few pennies away; but not a single squib or cracker was forthcoming, to the disappointment of the onlookers.
...'Run away now!' said Gandalf. 'You will get plenty when the time comes.' Then he disappeared inside with Bilbo, and the door was shut. The young hobbits stared at the door in vain for a while, and then they made off, feeling that the day of the party would never come."



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Sep 14 2014, 9:12pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 15 2014, 2:09pm

Post #24 of 34 (604 views)
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TIME - September 15 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth


September 15, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Gandalf is held captive atop Orthanc.
(not from the appendices)
..."'...on the pinnacle of Orthanc, in the place where Saruman was accustomed to watch the stars. There is no descent save by a narrow stair of many thousand steps, and the valley below seems far away... ...I stood alone on an island in the clouds; and I had not chance of escape, and my days were bitter. I was pierced with cold, and I had but little room in which to pace to and fro, brooding on the coming of the Riders to the North.'"


2. Frodo's dream of Gandalf's capture he had much later in the House of Bombadil.
(not from the appendices)
..."In the dead night, Frodo lay in a dream without light. Then he saw the young moon rising; under its thin light there loomed before him a black wall of rock, pierced by a dark arch like a great gate. It seemed to Frodo that he was lifted up, and passing over he saw that the rock-wall was a circle of hills… …within it was a plain, and in the midst of the plain stood a pinnacle of stone, like a vast tower but not made by hands. On its top stood the figure of a man. The moon as it rose seemed to hang for a moment above his head and glistened in his white hair as the wind stirred it. Up from the dark plain below came the crying of fell voices, and the howling of many wolves. Suddenly a shadow, like the shape of great wings, passed across the moon. The figure lifted his arms and a light flashed from the staff that he wielded. A mighty eagle swept down and bore him away. The voices wailed and the wolves yammered."



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



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"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 15 2014, 6:13pm

Post #25 of 34 (616 views)
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Is Gandalf exaggerating again? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Gandalf speaking:
...on the pinnacle of Orthanc, in the place where Saruman was accustomed to watch the stars. There is no descent save by a narrow stair of many thousand steps…

Orthanc was 500’ in height. The average riser of a step (today’s) is seven & three-quarter inches. A 500’ building would have approximately 645 steps – not “many thousand”, although it may have seemed more like “many thousand” to Gandalf as he was being force-marched up to the pinnacle.

It’s also interesting that Gandalf had a staff. I suppose Saruman had little to fear from Gandalf at this point in time, staff or no.

"Excuse me, excuse me. What does God need with a Starship?
James T. Kirk --S.T. V

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