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Peterthorn of Rohan
Rivendell
Sep 5 2014, 10:17am
Post #1 of 101
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Who do you think is going to be the lead character in BOTFA?
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I have been wondering about this for a while. In AUJ Bilbo was the main character. He had the most screentime and he was not lost between action sequences. He had a great speech after meeting the dwarves(post Goblin Town) and his relationship with Thorin was one of the key aspects of the film. In DOS however it looked as if Thorin was the main character and not Bilbo. The introduction of many other characters made it even worse and Bilbo had much less screentime than he actually deserved. I also believe that almost all of the Extended Edition scenes are going to feature Bilbo, which means that the screenwriters don' t consider him much. Having read interview about BOTFA, Bilbo is not even mentioned and Philippa Boyens always talks about how much she loves the Thorin storyline. No word about Bilbo at all!
My prediction is that BOTFA is going to have three major players. First of all Thorin, Bard and then Bilbo. Having watched the trailer, that is my belief. Who do you think is gonna be the main character in BOTFA?
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BalrogTrainer
Rivendell
Sep 5 2014, 10:51am
Post #2 of 101
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... these are largely ensemble films, I really don't see the point in trying to single out someone as the 'lead character.' Quite a few have complained about Bilbo having been somewhat sidelined in certain parts of these films, constantly pointing out that the book on which they're based is called The Hobbit, yet also seemingly forgetting the fact that the titular character of LOTR (i.e. Sauron) isn't exactly front-and-center in those films -- and not really even in the book, either. 
(This post was edited by BalrogTrainer on Sep 5 2014, 10:52am)
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Arannir
Valinor
Sep 5 2014, 10:56am
Post #3 of 101
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This will stand at the core of the movie... With the dynamics between Thranduil (Legolas, Tauriel)/Bard/Thorin, Gandalf's journey and Thorin/Company also taking up quite some time.
But the two lead characters will imho clearly be Thorin and Bilbo. With the former being an interesting mix of protagonist and antagonist.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Sep 5 2014, 11:27am
Post #4 of 101
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We certainly see more of Bilbo in 'The Hobbit' -
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- than we see of Sauron in 'The Lord of the Rings'.
When you see all six movies, it becomes clear that the actions of the little Hobbit led to the downfall of the Dark Lord.
I suspect that Bilbo will have more to do in the third Hobbit movie than was originally depicted in the book.
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Sep 5 2014, 11:28am)
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Sep 5 2014, 12:20pm
Post #5 of 101
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Since Bard is out of the mountain and it is out there where it happens the vast majority of the action
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I think is gonna be him the one who is gonna lead audience into the story, but not the one who is gonna have the most hearted moments that of course is gonna be Bilbo and Thorin
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Sep 5 2014, 1:43pm
Post #6 of 101
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Most of BOTFA will be Smaug’s I tell you,
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as we will be taken on a tour of that area of the Ered Mithrin called “Whence Came Dragons”.
There will be an extended look into the birth, teenage years, and adulthood of Smaug.
And it will be shown that he became such a greed-fiend due to his social upbringing and lack of proper parentage. Are we all not born adorable and in innocence? 
BABY SMAUG - "Am I not cutsie?"
"...or ever still a herald on
an errand that should never rest
to bear his shining lamp afar,
the Flammifer of Westernesse."
-Bilbo Baggins
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bungobaggins
Lorien
Sep 5 2014, 2:26pm
Post #7 of 101
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That's a terrible counter argument.
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"Quite a few have complained about Bilbo having been somewhat sidelined in certain parts of these films, constantly pointing out that the book on which they're based is called The Hobbit, yet also seemingly forgetting the fact that the titular character of LOTR (i.e. Sauron) isn't exactly front-and-center in those films -- and not really even in the book, either."
The book The Hobbit IS ABOUT Bilbo and the development of his character. Your argument that "Sauron isn't the main character of LOTR so that makes it ok that Bilbo isn't the main character of TH movies" is awful reasoning and completely ignores the problems that people have with these films.
I'm sick of these movies and I'm sick of this website and the mental gymnastics used to justify aspects of these movies.
Good day.
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mcmojo
Bree
Sep 5 2014, 2:53pm
Post #8 of 101
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"Quite a few have complained about Bilbo having been somewhat sidelined in certain parts of these films, constantly pointing out that the book on which they're based is called The Hobbit, yet also seemingly forgetting the fact that the titular character of LOTR (i.e. Sauron) isn't exactly front-and-center in those films -- and not really even in the book, either."
The book The Hobbit IS ABOUT Bilbo and the development of his character. Your argument that "Sauron isn't the main character of LOTR so that makes it ok that Bilbo isn't the main character of TH movies" is awful reasoning and completely ignores the problems that people have with these films.
I'm sick of these movies and I'm sick of this website and the mental gymnastics used to justify aspects of these movies.
Good day.
"About a 9 on the tension scale."
Bilbo is still the lead of this trilogy. He is the central focus. His story is the primary focus. But he is not the only focus. The filmmakers decided to expand the perspective to include more storylines. It's different from the book. So? This isn't the book. It's a film trilogy. If I wanted to find out about a group of bumbling, grumbling, dumb dwarves who can't do anything for themselves, I would read the book. If I want a different perspective that fits more cleanly with the original LOTR trilogy, then I will watch the movies. The creation of the films does not destroy the existence of the book.
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Sep 5 2014, 3:26pm
Post #10 of 101
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It's ok.There is always an alternative.
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That magnificent and stupendous forum in which 5-10 folks(at the most) have gathered,constantly bashing the Hobbit movies and Jackson himself.Not to mention the imdb message boards.
Good day to you too
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
Sep 5 2014, 3:28pm
Post #11 of 101
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It technically should be Bilbo
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But I think it will be Bard.
"And so they stood on the walls of the city of Gondor, and a great wind rose and blew, and their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air."
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Sep 5 2014, 3:28pm
Post #12 of 101
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In my case though, i would take these films over the book at anytime since "The Hobbit" book is my least favourite of Tolkien's masterworks.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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Darkstone
Immortal
Sep 5 2014, 3:42pm
Post #13 of 101
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...he wouldn't be the special snowflake.
******************************************
For a while the three companions remained silent, gazing after him. Then Aragorn spoke. "They will look for him from the White Tower," he said, "but he will not return from mountain or from sea." Then slowly he began to sing:
"Boromir is dead
Poor Boromir is dead
All gather round his canoe now and cry
He had a heart of gold
And he wasn't very old
Oh why did such a feller have to die?"
Then Legolas sang:
"Boromir is dead
Poor Boromir is dead
He's lookin' oh so purty and so nice
He looks like he's asleep
It's a shame that he won't keep
But the sun’s out and we're runnin' out a' ice."
Then Aragorn sang again:
"Boromir is dead
Poor Boromir is dead
From Minas Tirith comes a weepin' sound
The East Wind for a spell
Will now blow a different smell
Til Boromir is underneath the ground."
So they ended. Then they turned their boat and drove it with all the speed they could against the stream back to Parth Galen.
-Rodgers and Hammerstein, The Lord of the Rings
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Sep 5 2014, 5:07pm
Post #14 of 101
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Yes, baby Smaug is cutsie, like all babies
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Sep 5 2014, 5:14pm
Post #15 of 101
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but I don't think he'll be THE lead. I'm pretty sure that Bilbo will be the most important character in this movie - after all, he'll have the all-important "betrayal" scene, the heart-breaking "farewell to Thorin" scene, and probably the last word in Bag-End. Plus I doubt he'll get knocked unconcious while invisible and therefore miss all the fighting. He'll be there, somewhere.
But yes, the camera will bounce between him and Thorin , Gandalf, Bard, Bolg, Azog, Thranduil, the Kilielgolas triangle, Smaug and Sauron's army, so it might be difficult to keep up with him during all that.
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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tsmith675
Gondor
Sep 5 2014, 5:50pm
Post #16 of 101
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Deep breaths.
Our destiny lies above us.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 5 2014, 8:53pm
Post #17 of 101
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Bilbo is the audience's window into Middle-earth. The fall and redemption of Thorin is a major theme both in the book and the films.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Avandel
Half-elven
Sep 6 2014, 1:30am
Post #18 of 101
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...the mental gymnastics used to justify aspects of these movies.
??? The movies, thankfully, are what they have ALWAYS been about - capturing the oft-neglected, but high-spending, female (well, mostly) demographic. Females who are talented, educated, with disposable income and high credit limits (or at least indulgent parents with high credit limits), who while extremely appreciative of the liberation efforts of their clothing-burning, razor-tossing, natural-baby feeding sisters are just a 'we bit mournful for the days when a DWARF was a DWARF, and females were glad of it. With LOTS and LOTS of hair - none of this metrossexual, cookie-cutter, buffed-nail, woodpecker lips sensitivity stuff.
E.g., HOT DWARVES.
Granted, think all would concur we have a superb Hobbit, who in his own right is certainly very handsome, and even beautiful. You just WANT to hug him!
But - and this will be further expounded upon in upcoming v-blogs - the most critical factor in casting was the ability to SMOULDER. He who smoulders the best, gets the best lines and the most screen time.
And of course, said liberated ladies (mostly) of all ages will often (not always, because a lot of times you want to experience the SMOULDER in private, so thank gawd for the modern technology of the DVD!) drag along friends, family, boyfriends, soon-to-be-ex's (because their smoulder wasn't up to par) and pets, profits for the Hobbit movies and associated merchandise went off the charts. Thus, the sheer genius of Peter Jackson and his team will be discussed in economics classes worldwide for years to come - forget Warren Buffet and all those boring zzzzzzzzzzz financial experts. Sir Peter was able to CORRECTLY assess that what ~50% of the world's population wanted was MORE HAIR.
Yes, indeed.
In any case, for Sir Peter to have treated these movies as anything else than the big gourmet candy box that he created, it would not only have been economically foolish, but morally and ethically socially reprehensible. Things have moved on in the world since the Hobbit was written! After all, what else did ~50% of the world's population have to spend their entertainment dollars on? Dull unrealistic chick flicks and the Expendables.
I am sorry if these films are a disappointment to you, but history will show that Sir Peter bravely forged new ground in efforts for female equality - personally, I wouldn't be surprised if he is justifiably nominated for a Nobel Peace prize. Particularly in that the male demographic was not neglected, in the plethora of really, really, cool weaponry and examples of noble bad-assery and creepy set-pieces. Few creative efforts have brought the entire world together, male and female, with such graceful balance.
Hó , Það sé ég föður minn
Hó , Það sé ég móður mína, og Hó, Það sé ég bræður mínir og systur mínar
Hó , Það sé ég mitt fólk aftur í byrjun
Hó, gera Þeir kalla til mín, og bjóða mér að taka minn stað meðal þeirra í sölum Valhallar
Hvar hugrakkir mun lifa að eilífu
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Yngwulff
Gondor
Sep 6 2014, 2:41am
Post #20 of 101
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He''s the hero who killed Smaug and rightful heir to Dale, the Bilbo Thorin dynamic will be there of course, but Thorin isn't the only King coming back into his own. The scene in the trailer where all the Elves part way and allow him to pass by in his raggedy clothes leads me to believe this.
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Sep 6 2014, 3:02am
Post #21 of 101
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Based on the final battle in The Hobbit
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the main protagonists will be:
Bilbo
Lobelia
The Spoons
The other stuff is just leading up to this moment.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
Sep 6 2014, 4:38am
Post #22 of 101
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That is one adorable baby dragon
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"And so they stood on the walls of the city of Gondor, and a great wind rose and blew, and their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air."
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Arannir
Valinor
Sep 6 2014, 8:28am
Post #23 of 101
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... I agree that the argument you quote is indeed a weak one.
I would prefer though discussing and arguing these books and movies with you in a more friendly fashion as we have in the past. As you know it is not the majority here that goes against everything negative said about these movies (nor is there a majority that goes against anything positive said - though there are cases of both types).
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Sep 6 2014, 1:44pm
Post #24 of 101
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Interesting - I wonder how much of a role perception plays.
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I suppose there is no one way of defining what makes a lead character, whether there is one, who it is etc, in ensemble films.
I do think the question of perception is an interesting one, though, and it's interesting to compare "fan" thoughts with other sources of info. I hadn't noticed this question about Bilbo and Thorin in the DOS reviews that I recalled from the time and a quick flick through today didn't seem to highlight it.
Similarly, a think through the DOS chapters and reflecting on where Bilbo had leading roles in scenes or solo scenes (the opening scene with the orcs, moments with the ring, 1-2-1 with Gandalf, taking a lead in Mirkwood/the butterflies, the spiders, rescuing the dwarves from the elves ...and so on) it doesn't quite seem to me the the described sum is equal to the aggregation of the parts.
I also thought about a comparison and TTT sprang to mind. Again, thinking through the chapters I think it would be hard to argue that Frodo got as large a share of the film as Bilbo did of DOS, or indeed that Thorin had more of a share than Aragorn. (Though of course Frodo has importance to the other story strands in a way Bilbo does not - but I'm not sure that offers a distinction for Thorin vs Aragorn)
So it seems to me that perhaps perceptions of DOS are formed slightly differently and I wondered if it might, in part, be related to the salience of the unexpected.
Almost all of Bilbo's story in DOS was well known and familiar to readers. We knew what he was going to do and were well versed in the nuances and contexts of his actions. On the other hand, many of the scenes which did not involve, or primarily involve, Bilbo were much more novel to us (whether as additional scenes not in the text or as much fuller visualisations of things which happened but were only vaguely sketched).
Thinking back over the film as a whole I wonder if Bilbo suffers somewhat unfairly in the reader's memory in comparison to scenes and strands which gain additional prominence because of their newness or unexpectedness.
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LordotRings93
Rohan
Sep 6 2014, 2:28pm
Post #25 of 101
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Just because something is named off someone, doesn't mean they have to be the constant centerpiece in said work. For quick examples, take the SpongeBob cartoon. Not every episode is about SpongeBob. And as the user said, this is more of an ensemble cast ala Lord of the Rings. Why squander some other great characters just to give Bilbo the spotlight? If that was the case, you'd most likely be complaining that Bard had no character development or that the dwarves were just there to be there. Seriously, folk like yourself need to stop finding every little stitch in these films and tearing it to shreds. That's why some of us defend them, because we love the effort put in by PJ and his team, and enjoy the story he's telling, and to have someone just constantly be negative, and also in a rude manner and not constructively, it only adds to us repairing these holes you so want to deepen.
The Hobbit: The Battle Of The Five Armies 12/17/14
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."
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No mental gymanstics involved
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