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Few questions i have of Middle Earth Map

shaundobson
Rivendell


Aug 22 2014, 12:19pm

Post #1 of 6 (1470 views)
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Few questions i have of Middle Earth Map Can't Post


Firstly what is that island on the bottom left corner of the map ? Remnants of Numenor?
Secondly what is the sea creature in the water ? Legit ?
Thirdly and lastly, what are them mountains called on the east border of the map in Rhun ?


(This post was edited by shaundobson on Aug 22 2014, 12:21pm)


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2014, 12:30pm

Post #2 of 6 (1226 views)
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a faded map [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't see the map you refer to, but like other things Tolkien, sometimes secondary sources [if we have one here] are not as accurate as they could be.

I'll just guess, for now, that the sea creatures are fish... or water unicorns with webbed hooves.


squire
Half-elven


Aug 22 2014, 12:33pm

Post #3 of 6 (1228 views)
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Maybe, No, and Who knows? [In reply to] Can't Post

1. The island labeled Meneltarma, formerly a high mountain, would be the only surviving remnant of Numenor. Tolkien himself never located it on any of his maps; he simply speculates on its existence in his unpublished account of the fall of Numenor.
2. The sea creature is not legit, in that Tolkien never describes such a thing. He would be the first to admit that additional "strange creatures" exist in Middle-earth. It's up to any reader or illustrator to decide whether to create such things without any authorial basis.
3. Any mountains east of Rhun may be imagined as having a name, but as such they exist outside of Tolkien's authorized map of Middle-earth as published in The Lord of the Rings.

As you probably figured from my comments, this is not Tolkien's map. It extends too far to the east and to the west; the labeling has changed; etc. He did several speculative sketch maps and draft descriptions of his entire world in the 1930s, which have been published since his death. They have often been formalized and expanded upon by other artists, such as the one who made this map. Enjoy, with a grain of salt; the basic meal is in the published book.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 22 2014, 1:29pm

Post #4 of 6 (1215 views)
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The Mountains of the East [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Firstly what is that island on the bottom left corner of the map ? Remnants of Numenor?
Secondly what is the sea creature in the water ? Legit ?
Thirdly and lastly, what are them mountains called on the east border of the map in Rhun ?



Squire answered your questions very well. I couldn't see the original image that you posted (I think that it is too big), but I was able to track down the original file. Looking at the enlaraged version, I see that the range that you were asking about is labeled the Mountains of the East. In Quenya, it is called the Orocarni ('red mountains').

The late Karen Wynn Fonstad drew even more comprehensive maps of Arda in her revised edition of The Atlas of Middle-earth, based on drawings by Professor Tolkien that were published in The Shaping of Middle Earth (volume IV of The History of Middle-earth).

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 22 2014, 1:37pm)


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2014, 2:10pm

Post #5 of 6 (1203 views)
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fish dragon [In reply to] Can't Post

Well now I can see it, thanks to Otaku-sempai!

The sea beast: looks like someone has possibly noted the Elvish word lingwiloke [from Etymologies at least: a text written mid to later 1930s with some overlap of the early Lord of the Rings writing] and included a 'fish-dragon' or sea serpent to make the map look fancy... thus not a web-hooved Unicorn as I suspected!

They could have gone with Fastitocalon too!

I see the Islands of Tol Fuin and Himling here. I'm not sure I agree that these truly exist, although Himling appears on some maps for The Lord of the Rings these days -- yet not on any published maps when Tolkien himself was alive.


Hmm, this map also includes the Elvish three dots above the vowel a in Roman writing... they did that in the film too. It's for Elvish writing rather, not Roman.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Aug 22 2014, 2:18pm)


HeWhoArisesinMight
Rivendell


Aug 22 2014, 6:17pm

Post #6 of 6 (1226 views)
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Here be dragons! [In reply to] Can't Post

The serpent drawn on the bottom left quadrant of the map probably was added to make it look more authentic. Cartographers from the Middle Ages and antiquity often drew serpents (and other mythical creatures) in unexplored territories as a warning that this region. If you view old maps, you will see marine monsters in unchartered seas and terrestrial monsters in unchartered lands.


Tolkien (and others who make maps based of his legendarium) was seeking authenticity with his "real" world of Middle Earth and the maps help create that realism. Since the world is a combination/approximation of the ancient and Medieval worlds, the maps are drawn like they would be in "historical" times. It gives Middle Earth a great deal of verisimilitude.

 
 

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