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Screencap of the Day: Frodo's farewell

Loresilme
Valinor


Aug 19 2014, 2:30pm

Post #1 of 10 (1547 views)
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Screencap of the Day: Frodo's farewell Can't Post

Gandalf has said his goodbyes, now it is Frodo's turn.

"We set out to save the Shire, Sam. And it has been saved. But not for me."

The exact phrasing from the book here is: "I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me."
What do you think of the change in phrasing? Does it seem similar to the change from "I am glad you are here with me" to "I'm glad to be with you"? Also any thoughts about 'we set out to' versus "tried to"?


"You don’t mean that. You can’t leave."


Poor Sam! What do you think of what he says? Of all the things he could say to try to either persuade Frodo to stay, or to express how he feels, or his reaction, why choose those words? I also notice here how Frodo is facing the West, and Sam stands between him and it, with his back to it. In fact in this shot he is directly in front of the exit where the ship will sail. What do you think of the symbolism of this placement?

Here in this next scene I am inserting a passage from the book, because I just want to believe that the look on Sam's face is in reaction to Frodo whispering to him, about sailing West: "Not yet anyway, not further than the Havens. Though you too were a Ring-bearer, if only for a little while. Your time may come."

Did you ever notice this expression on Sam's face? If so, when (first viewing, or upon later viewing?)

Gandalf extends his hand to Frodo.


Of all the extended hands and hand claspings we've seen in the trilogy, how does this one compare? Similarities or differences? Has Gandalf ever extended his hand to Frodo before this moment?


And just because if one screencap is good, five is even better ;).... here's one more bonus screencap:


What do you think of the design of the Havens? Does it remind you of any real locations or can such a place only exist in our imaginations?



Any other thoughts or comments, please feel free to share!

I'll be back later in the week to wrap up our SCOD ROTK :).


FrogmortonJustice65
Lorien


Aug 19 2014, 10:49pm

Post #2 of 10 (1362 views)
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very good questions. [In reply to] Can't Post

What do you think of the change in phrasing? Does it seem similar to the change from "I am glad you are here with me" to "I'm glad to be with you"? Also any thoughts about 'we set out to' versus "tried to"?

It is a similar phrasing. I think the biggest change is from "I" to "we" - movie Frodo acknowledges the team effort and sacrifice it took to accomplish their task; afterall, "Frodo wouldn't have gotten very far without Sam."

Poor Sam! What do you think of what he says? Of all the things he could say to try to either persuade Frodo to stay, or to express how he feels, or his reaction, why choose those words? I also notice here how Frodo is facing the West, and Sam stands between him and it, with his back to it. In fact in this shot he is directly in front of the exit where the ship will sail. What do you think of the symbolism of this placement?

I don't think Sam is trying to persuade Frodo to stay -- those are the words of a friend heartbroken to learn his companion is leaving. On some level I think Sam realizes it is futile to convince Frodo otherwise.

The framing of the shot is highly symbolic, I think.

Did you ever notice this expression on Sam's face? If so, when (first viewing, or upon later viewing?)

Not sure.

Of all the extended hands and hand claspings we've seen in the trilogy, how does this one compare? Similarities or differences? Has Gandalf ever extended his hand to Frodo before this moment?

I can't remember if Gandalf has. There are hand clasping scenes between Frodo and Sam in all three movies.

 photo cbccab4e-f61e-4be5-aaa1-20e302430c7c.jpg


BlackFox
Half-elven


Aug 20 2014, 8:04pm

Post #3 of 10 (1353 views)
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Must... not... weep... [In reply to] Can't Post

What do you think of the change in phrasing? Does it seem similar to the change from “I am glad you are here with me” to “I’m glad to be with you”? Also any thoughts about “we set out to” versus “tried to”?
I much prefer the film version: we instead of I. It nicely emphasizes the importance of Sam in the quest to destroy the Ring and Frodo’s appreciation of this. Because as he himself says in TTT, “Frodo wouldn’t have got far without Sam”. And yes, there’s an obvious similarity to the other change you mentioned: Frodo is not shy to express his gratitude towards Sam or stress the fact that their quest wasn’t merely a mission of his, but a team’s work. “We set out to” instead of “tried to” seems to imply a stronger faith in the possibility of the quest coming to a successful end in the film. Was film-Frodo more hopeful when he set out from Rivendell to Mordor than book-Frodo? Hmm… This needs some more pondering.
Poor Sam! What do you think of what he says? Of all the things he could say to try to either persuade Frodo to stay, or to express how he feels, or his reaction, why choose those words?
He speaks of what he’d like to hear, how he’d like things to be. He knows in his heart that Frodo must leave and that he must let him go, yet his mind refuses to accept it. He’s in too much shock and pain to think of anything more eloquent; he uses the words that come to his mind first, words that are a simple, but honest display of his disbelief and sadness of Frodo’s impending departure.
I also notice here how Frodo is facing the West, and Sam stands between him and it, with his back to it. In fact in this shot he is directly in front of the exit where the ship will sail. What do you think of the symbolism of this placement?
Excellent observation! I don’t think I’ve ever given their placement in this scene much thought. Your insightful notions have highlighted a symbolic level I’d yet to notice myself, because I agree, this is a clearly symbolic move: it is Frodo’s destiny to sail into the West and despite the fact that Sam knows he has to let his friend go, he makes one last effort to hold him from leaving (though, as I said above, his “You don’t mean that. You can’t leave.” is no more than wishful thinking, a last fragment of hope where there is actually none left, but the realization of this is yet to come). However, this could also be interpreted like this: Frodo has only one more thing left to do before he can leave Middle-earth, the hardest of all and that is to say good-bye to his dearest friend.
Here in this next scene I am inserting a passage from the book, because I just want to believe that the look on Sam’s face is in reaction to Frodo whispering to him, about sailing West: “Not yet anyway, not further than the Havens. Though you too were a Ring-bearer, if only for a little while. Your time may come.”
Unsure Darn ninjas cutting onions! You just made this scene even more beautiful in my eyes, Loresilme. Evil That is such a lovely, encouraging and hopeful thought, though still a bittersweet one.
Did you ever notice this expression on Sam’s face? If so, when (first viewing, or upon later viewing?)
I did, though I can’t remember whether upon my first viewing or sometimes later. The expression on Sam’s face is one of acceptance: he must let Frodo go, there’s nothing to it. They both need to move on; Sam has already laid a foundation to the path he’s to take and has started a family, but he also needs to let Frodo do the same (even if this means allowing him follow his path across the Sea). Yes, they will be parted, but not for ever. They will meet again.
Of all the extended hands and hand claspings we've seen in the trilogy, how does this one compare? Similarities or differences?
Another thing I’ve never given much thought to! Though now that you bring it up: there’s plenty to think about here. Extending someone a hand is a gesture full of meaning and symbolism; it is to join forces, lend strength to the other in the time of one’s need, lead and/or encourage a companion etc. Frodo pulls Sam from the river in the end of FOTR, Sam “returns him the favor” in ROTK when he saves his life inside Mt. Doom, Galadriel appears to Frodo in a dream/vision and extends her hand when he seems to have lost all his strength and helps him back to his feet. All these scenes are heavy with symbolism and meaning and this scene with Gandalf and Frodo is no different. In fact, it’s similar to the others not only because of this nor the simple occurrence of the same gesture in these scenes, but also due to the fact that this too is a hand that is stretched out to save a life, I believe. Gandalf extends his hand to invite Frodo on aboard the ship that is to carry them into the West, where there lies Frodo’s only hope for ever finding peace and comfort again. Yes, it is more of a metaphorical gesture here, but one of great meaning nonetheless.
Has Gandalf ever extended his hand to Frodo before this moment?
Hmm, that’s a good question. Let me think… I can’t recall. I’d love to have this question answered properly, though; it has the potential of adding even more significance to the scene in question.
What do you think of the design of the Havens? Does it remind you of any real locations or can such a place only exist in our imaginations?
The design of the Grey Havens is marvelous. Although, aren’t almost all the sets in these films? Such tranquility, such quiet beauty! With a hint of sadness in the air, of course. All those departures, ships leaving Middle-earth. “Never to return.” The Havens really do remind me of something, yet I’ve been unable to put my finger on it so far. A painting? A place I’ve been? The latter – hardly. I’m sure I’d remember a place as gorgeous as this. I guess it will have to remain an imaginary, magical place; a place of great beauty and wistful peacefulness; more delicate and precious because it only exists in a fantastical, unreachable world.
Thank you for these beautiful screencaps and wonderful questions, Loresilme! Smile


“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country


CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 20 2014, 9:07pm

Post #4 of 10 (1337 views)
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I'm with Blackfox [In reply to] Can't Post

Reading this on my iPad on bus ride home and must not weep in public!!!

Thanks for pointing out the symbolism of Sam standing between Frodo and the West--I never noticed that.

I really like how Gandalf puts his hand out to Frodo. Everything about his manner says, "We are equals now." What a journey both he and Frodo have been on in life to get to this point!


BlackFox
Half-elven


Aug 20 2014, 10:06pm

Post #5 of 10 (1329 views)
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Gandalf and Frodo [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I really like how Gandalf puts his hand out to Frodo. Everything about his manner says, "We are equals now."

Indeed it does! Another fine observation as well as another thing I hadn't thought about before. That's what I love about these discussions: the new dimensions the others' comments open up in scenes I thought I knew through and through. Smile


“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country

(This post was edited by BlackFox on Aug 20 2014, 10:18pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Aug 21 2014, 3:09pm

Post #6 of 10 (1305 views)
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I just noticed it for the first time as well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I also notice here how Frodo is facing the West, and Sam stands between him and it, with his back to it. In fact in this shot he is directly in front of the exit where the ship will sail. What do you think of the symbolism of this placement?
Excellent observation! I don’t think I’ve ever given their placement in this scene much thought. Your insightful notions have highlighted a symbolic level I’d yet to notice myself, because I agree, this is a clearly symbolic move: it is Frodo’s destiny to sail into the West and despite the fact that Sam knows he has to let his friend go, he makes one last effort to hold him from leaving (though, as I said above, his “You don’t mean that. You can’t leave.” is no more than wishful thinking, a last fragment of hope where there is actually none left, but the realization of this is yet to come). However, this could also be interpreted like this: Frodo has only one more thing left to do before he can leave Middle-earth, the hardest of all and that is to say good-bye to his dearest friend.


It's amazing how many times I've looked at that scene, and yet for whatever reason, had not previously noticed how meaningful that placement is. As you stated, there's only one more thing for Frodo to do: say goodbye to Sam Heart.



Quote
Of all the extended hands and hand claspings we've seen in the trilogy, how does this one compare? Similarities or differences? ........ this too is a hand that is stretched out to save a life, I believe. Gandalf extends his hand to invite Frodo on aboard the ship that is to carry them into the West, where there lies Frodo’s only hope for ever finding peace and comfort again.



Ah, wonderful observation - in all the instances where hands are extended, it is when the person is in dire, life-threatening straits. At this moment, it doesn't "look" that way, but in truth, it is - reminds me of Galadriel's statement "The quest will claim his life." On the surface it's not apparent, but inside, it has.



Quote
The Havens really do remind me of something, yet I’ve been unable to put my finger on it so far. A painting? A place I’ve been?



Maybe Lake Como, in Italy? That's what comes to mind for me. I've never been there but from certain photographs, it seems similar:




BlackFox
Half-elven


Aug 21 2014, 3:56pm

Post #7 of 10 (1299 views)
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Lake Como [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, there's certainly a similarity between the two places. And yet I still don't feel entirely satisfied. Unsure What else could the Grey Havens be reminding me? Argh! Why can't I remember?! Mad


“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country

(This post was edited by BlackFox on Aug 21 2014, 3:57pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Aug 21 2014, 4:25pm

Post #8 of 10 (1296 views)
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Intriguing [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know of any other real place that approaches that level of otherworldly beauty, so if you remember, please let us know!

Or if you've 'dreamed' of such a place --- I would certainly love to have dreams like that too Smile.


BlackFox
Half-elven


Aug 21 2014, 7:17pm

Post #9 of 10 (1285 views)
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Will do! ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 21 2014, 7:24pm

Post #10 of 10 (1350 views)
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"Plus ultra" [In reply to] Can't Post

What do you think of the change in phrasing?

Very nice!


Does it seem similar to the change from "I am glad you are here with me" to "I'm glad to be with you"?

Exactly! Like the earlier change it makes Frodo seem less self-centered and more acknowledging of Sam’s importance to the quest, and of course to Frodo.


Also any thoughts about 'we set out to' versus "tried to"?

Jackson subtly acknowledges the action of the Higher Powers. They “tried to”, but it was due to Providence that the Shire was saved. Wonderful!


Poor Sam! What do you think of what he says? Of all the things he could say to try to either persuade Frodo to stay, or to express how he feels, or his reaction, why choose those words?

See Kübler-Ross: The first stage of grief is denial.


I also notice here how Frodo is facing the West, and Sam stands between him and it, with his back to it. In fact in this shot he is directly in front of the exit where the ship will sail. What do you think of the symbolism of this placement?

That’s exactly the point. When one is psychically wounded by war, sometimes even love isn’t enough. Heartbreaking!


Did you ever notice this expression on Sam's face? If so, when (first viewing, or upon later viewing?)

It’s a really simple, honest, no-frills expression. Totally Sam.


Gandalf extends his hand to Frodo.
Of all the extended hands and hand claspings we've seen in the trilogy, how does this one compare?


Ominously, like the Angel of Death. Comforting, also like the Angel of Death.


Similarities or differences?

Most times it’s to help people survive. Of course this time it’s an irresistible invitation to “Go West”, and we all know what that WWI euphemism means.


Has Gandalf ever extended his hand to Frodo before this moment?

There's Gandalf's hand out of the dark way back in Bag End which pulled Frodo into this entire mess in the first place!


What do you think of the design of the Havens?

Spooky. Looks like it’s filled with the ghosts of the past.


Does it remind you of any real locations or can such a place only exist in our imaginations?

Yes. It reminds me of the Pillars of Hercules, drastically shrunk. I could compare The Labours of Hercules to The Labours of Frodo, but I won't.

Also reminds me of the Falls of Rauros, and we all know how that relates to Boromir, who also fell to the ring.

******************************************
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man pierced with many black-feathered arrows, must be in want of a funeral."

 
 

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