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Beorn's Bees
Lorien
Aug 16 2014, 3:14am
Post #1 of 13
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Thoughts on the AUJ prologue?
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What are your thoughts on the prologue to AUJ? Did they really need to have old Bilbo? Should there have been a prologue at all? Why did Thrandu ride all the way there and just turn back? General thoughts on AUJ's prologue?
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Aug 16 2014, 3:21am
Post #2 of 13
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Yes he old Bilbo for some was a bit over long (I guess some can argue that they should have done without the Elijah Wood stuff but it is a nice tie in to FOTR which is how these movies are meant to be viewed) I personally enjoyed the tie in and my favorite part is when old Bilbo opens the chest and sees the picture of himself that Ori drew. I thought that ws very effective, along with pulling out the Red Book and writing in it. I think it was not only a terriifc tie in to FOTR but also great intro to the Hobbit story and the quest for Erebor. I thought it was very well done. And unless someone had told me you can't even tell that's Martin Freeman standing there as Frodo walks down the path. Nice double work there by PJ and crew as well as Freeman who studied Ian Holms mannerisms to make that shot.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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KeenObserver
Lorien
Aug 16 2014, 4:14am
Post #4 of 13
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Thranduil to the rescue! Oh, wait, never mind
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I'm probably dead wrong in my assumption, but I've always thought that Thranduil didn't know that it was a dragon attack. He might have suspected an orc siege or something a lot less formidable. When he arrives, he discovers that the dwarves have been overwhelmed by Smaug and he obviously won't risk the lives of his people especially after the battle has been won. Just my $0.02 . . . I know, it's a little far fetched.
”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin
(This post was edited by KeenObserver on Aug 16 2014, 4:22am)
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Bishop
Gondor
Aug 16 2014, 4:58am
Post #5 of 13
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I think the prologue works well
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Having an older Bilbo kicking things off is a pretty excellent way to frame the tale. IMO the effectiveness of the setup collapses with the inclusion of Frodo, which I find unnecessary, and the fact that it takes place on the same day as the first day of FOTR just seems ludicrous. The scene also runs too deep as a simple framing device; more telegraphed music cues and dialog about Bilbo "acting strange", and people wondering about how weird he is. The simplicity of Bilbo narrating without some larger context would have been fine. An oddity I noticed just recently; when Frodo says people think his hallways are "overflowing with gold", Bilbo answers "It was just one chest. And it still smells of Troll". Does this mean he doesn't get any gold from Erebor? Does he dig up the small chest they buried in the Troll cave? What is Bilbo talking about? As for the section of the prologue dealing with Erebor, I think it works well and there is some stunning imagery. The iconic (and best looking IMO) Dwarf who finds the Arkenstone is a wonderful moment. I suppose it could have been just as, if not more effective if Thorin explained it to Bilbo over dinner, as it was largely from Thorin's perspective. And I'd like to think that Thranduil knew full well what was going on, but showed up just to be a total jerk and rub it in the Dwarves' faces that he wasn't going to assist.
(This post was edited by Bishop on Aug 16 2014, 5:00am)
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Nira
Lorien
Aug 16 2014, 6:34am
Post #6 of 13
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As with the rest of the movie, I liked most of it
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Things I didn't like: >>A moose? really? >>Bilbo saying "my dear Frodo" half a dozen times got annoying >>If flames are surrounding you, you don't keep your head up with eyes and mouth wide open for very long like Balin and Thorin. A second maybe, for dramatic effect, then at least wince a little to make it look real. >>Distracting how different Bilbo and Frodo look from LOTR >>I still don't know what book Frodo is going to the woods to read
"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 16 2014, 7:52am
Post #7 of 13
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Did they really need to have old Bilbo? No, but I'm so glad they did. And Frodo. On first viewing I loved that sense of 'we're back' - and now, on umpteenth viewing, I find that whole sequence perfectly pitched and very effective - especially, as others have said, Bilbo's reaction to the drawing of himself as he was, so long ago. It touches the same note as Tolkien did in Bilbo's poem - the one that begins 'I sit beside the fire and think/ Of all that I have seen.' In a mythology which returns so often to the themes of time, ageing and death, I think that fitted beautifully. Thranduil? No idea. My guess would be that he was coming to help and turned back when he realised it was a dragon. The thing that catches and intrigues me every time I watch the extended prologue is Thorin's reaction when the dwarf teases Thranduil with the necklace and then closes the box on him. General thoughts on the prologue - I wouldn't be without it.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Aug 16 2014, 9:04am
Post #8 of 13
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When the candle lits and when the map moves to erebor...those were AMAZING moments
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I like it all, the only thing I dont understand is why they cutted withe gems, specially since in DoS TE Thranduil makes reference to them
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 16 2014, 9:29am
Post #9 of 13
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... Old Bilbo as well.... Frodo would have been a better EE scene.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Noria
Gondor
Aug 16 2014, 12:58pm
Post #10 of 13
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I believe the Bilbo and Frodo framing device was created mostly for the benefit of casual fans of the LotR movies, so they would be clear that this was not a sequel to LotR, but a story set many years earlier and featuring a young Bilbo. Frodo was there along with old Bilbo to remind us and to engage the LotR fan audience. None of us here needed that but perhaps we are not typical . The whole Erebor sequence was both necessary and well done, IMO. I always thought that Thranduil was well aware of what had happened when he arrived at Erebor on his elk and turned away because he was (quite sensibly) unwilling to sacrifice his fighters in an unwinnable battle against a dragon. Why he was there to begin with seemed a mystery at that point but after seeing the EE I wondered if Thranduil was initially returning with an army to add some weight to his demand for his gems, only to realize it was futile. (I’m not sure that I can see movie Thranduil saying “Long will I tarry ere I begin this war for gold.”) He could have helped the refugees but didn't, perhaps because of his grudge. After seeing DoS, I thought that at least part of why he turned away from Erebor was because he had been mentally and physically scarred by dragon fire in the past and was, quite naturally, frightened. It's an interesting question.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Aug 16 2014, 3:28pm
Post #11 of 13
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I'm a big fan of the AUJ prologue
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I love the way it immediately takes us back into Middle Earth and back into the Shire, to a place we already know and then the story expands from there. It's like getting your feet firmly on the ground before going off on the next adventure, similar to the feeling you get when you lock your front door behind you and head for the airport to go someplace you've never been before. And the Erebor story is crucial for what comes later, and a fascinating glimpse of dwarf life in a thriving dwarf city, which unfortunately we don't ever get to see in the books, so I very much appreciated seeing the movie version of it.
And once again the world has not arranged itself just for me.
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Kim
Valinor
Aug 16 2014, 5:13pm
Post #12 of 13
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Seeing Bilbo and Frodo immediately took me back into that world, a warm and cozy homecoming. But then we were swept off to the unknown and beautiful Dale and Erebor, which were wonderful to see. The glimpse into the thriving dwarf kingdom was thrilling. We got to see so much in just a few short scenes, but they were enough to paint a rich picture of these new lands. And then to see the destruction of the dragon was both awe inspiring and shocking. I thought the prologue was great and love re-watching it. One thing I am wondering is if we will see Ori giving Bilbo that drawing at the end of BOTFA, and making that shot at the beginning of AUJ even more poignant.
“Will you follow me, one last time?”
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 16 2014, 5:37pm
Post #13 of 13
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A bit long in combination with the Bag End scenes to follow.
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The Erebor bits were jolly good and a cracking start. Featuring Old Bilbo and Frodo was a grand idea and probably fairly crucial for the ordinary film goer but between this and the Bag Endery which follows it is just too long before the journey is underway and our hero is in any peril. It is a very prevalent feature of the reviews that this introductory set of scenes was vastly overlong and I agree, personally.
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