Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Screencap of the Day: "Farewell, my brave hobbits."

BlackFox
Half-elven


Aug 13 2014, 8:41am

Post #1 of 18 (3599 views)
Shortcut
Screencap of the Day: "Farewell, my brave hobbits." Can't Post

The Grey Havens. Gandalf says his good-bye to the hobbits. "Farewell, my brave hobbits. My work is now finished. Here at last, on the shores of the sea, comes the end of our Fellowship."



"I will not say, "Do not weep", for not all tears are an evil."



1. The hobbits react quite differently to Gandalf's words. How?

2. Has this scene retained its emotionality for you over the years?

3. Any interesting details that catch your eye?

4. Is there anything else you'd like to say about these screencaps? Any additional comments or observations?

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country

(This post was edited by BlackFox on Aug 13 2014, 8:54am)


FrogmortonJustice65
Lorien


Aug 13 2014, 3:39pm

Post #2 of 18 (3364 views)
Shortcut
great screencaps, great questions. [In reply to] Can't Post

1. The hobbits react quite differently to Gandalf's words. How?

Pippin and Merry look totally distraught by the idea of Gandalf leaving. Sam looks sad but more under-control of his emotions, as though he anticipated Gandalf leaving one day (though I doubt Sam anticipated Frodo leaving, as evidenced by how emotional he becomes later in this scene). Frodo's emotions are harder to decipher.

2. Has this scene retained its emotionality for you over the years?

It has. Recently re-watched all 3 LOTRs, and this scene is still quite powerful, especially with the events of the first 2 movies still fresh on my mind. Well-written scene and beautiful music by Shore. I don't think this scene will ever lose its poignancy for me because its depiction of friendship, loss, and love will always hold value.

3. Any interesting details that catch your eye?

I've always liked that the Hobbits had new outfits on for this scene. Pippin still has a scarf. And Frodo is wearing blue -- like he did in FOTR, a visual link to the sea, no doubt.

4. Is there anything else you'd like to say about these screencaps? Any additional comments or observations?

This scene isn't the end of the fellowship! Friends may separate but fellowship is eternal.

 photo cbccab4e-f61e-4be5-aaa1-20e302430c7c.jpg


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Aug 13 2014, 5:08pm

Post #3 of 18 (3352 views)
Shortcut
Too sad. [In reply to] Can't Post

Love the last look Frodo gives.


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Aug 13 2014, 5:29pm

Post #4 of 18 (3351 views)
Shortcut
To number two [In reply to] Can't Post

Completely. I watched it recently and cried, hard.




arithmancer
Grey Havens


Aug 13 2014, 6:51pm

Post #5 of 18 (3333 views)
Shortcut
2. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes. I always cry when I read this scene in the book (40-mumble-something times or so by now). And I always cry when I see this part of the film (somewhat less often, but give me time! :D )



Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 14 2014, 4:18am

Post #6 of 18 (3346 views)
Shortcut
I wonder if there is meaning in Gandalf's phrasing. [In reply to] Can't Post

"...not all tears are an evil", rather than the more modern-sounding "not all tears are evil". Is there a nuance in having 'an' in the sentence, or am I over-thinking this?

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 14 2014, 5:59am

Post #7 of 18 (3335 views)
Shortcut
Interesting question... [In reply to] Can't Post

They are different parts of speech. I'll drop the "not all" part of the sentence for a moment for the sake of clarity.

If we said "tears are evil", we'd be using it as an adjective to modify the noun. So it would mean that tears themselves are morally bad.

Saying "tears are an evil" uses it as a noun, and invokes a slightly different set of definitions, among which are what Webster's 1828 Dictionary helpfully classifies as either natural or moral evils.

Quote

Natural evil is any thing which produces pain, distress, loss or calamity, or which in any way disturbs the peace, impairs the happiness, or destroys the perfection of natural beings.

Moral evil is any deviation of a moral agent from the rules of conduct prescribed to him by God, or by legitimate human authority; or it is any violation of the plain principles of justice and rectitude.


Natural evils might (though not always) be direct results of moral evils, but they themselves are more neutral in nature. They are bad in the sense of being harmful or having injurious effects, but are not in themselves morally corrupt.

I think Tolkien is using the word as a noun and speaking of tears in the sense of "natural evils" - tears may come as a response to moral badness or harm, or be seen as a sign of weakness, but not all, and so they are not themselves shameful. Sometimes they are the most appropriate response. In this case, this is the last major effect of the Ring - that Frodo and Bilbo must sail West to be healed. The parting is a grief, and so tears are an entirely appropriate testament to love and friendship, and also a tool of healing for those left behind.

I suppose Gandalf could have said "Let it all out, you'll feel better", but that wouldn't have been so poetic. Tongue

Silverlode



Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



(This post was edited by Silverlode on Aug 14 2014, 10:32pm)


BlackFox
Half-elven


Aug 14 2014, 8:13am

Post #8 of 18 (3296 views)
Shortcut
Thanks, FJ65! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This scene isn't the end of the fellowship! Friends may separate but fellowship is eternal.

Beautifully put. Evil


“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country


BlackFox
Half-elven


Aug 14 2014, 8:16am

Post #9 of 18 (3307 views)
Shortcut
Excellent analysis, Silverlode! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you nailed it.


“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country


Loresilme
Valinor


Aug 14 2014, 3:10pm

Post #10 of 18 (3289 views)
Shortcut
This is fascinating [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the research, Silverlode. I wonder now, does this imply then that "some" tears *are* 'an evil'? And if so, then in what situation or scenario *would* tears be considered 'an evil'?


Loresilme
Valinor


Aug 14 2014, 3:48pm

Post #11 of 18 (3287 views)
Shortcut
Thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

1. The hobbits react quite differently to Gandalf's words. How?
Merry and Pippin seem to react very emotionally, Sam less emotionally and more philosophically/with acceptance, and Frodo with detachment. There seems to be nothing left for Frodo, not even tears.

2. Has this scene retained its emotionality for you over the years?
Absolutely. Every single time.

3. Any interesting details that catch your eye?
Are those cloaks their Elven cloaks? Or just the brooches?

4. Is there anything else you'd like to say about these screencaps? Any additional comments or observations?
Just how the music for this scene fits the rhythm of gentle ocean waves. And that Sam/Sean Astin is absolutely heartbreaking in these scenes.

Thank you BlackFox :).



BlackFox
Half-elven


Aug 14 2014, 6:04pm

Post #12 of 18 (3279 views)
Shortcut
Thanks again, Loresilme! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Merry and Pippin seem to react very emotionally, Sam less emotionally and more philosophically/with acceptance, and Frodo with detachment. There seems to be nothing left for Frodo, not even tears.

Perhaps because Frodo knows that he and Gandalf aren't going to be separated after all? Though, yes, even departing from his friends doesn't make him shed a tear a few moments later. When is the last time we see him weep, btw? When Gandalf falls in Moria?


“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country


squire
Half-elven


Aug 14 2014, 6:27pm

Post #13 of 18 (3287 views)
Shortcut
Stop that weeping [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, really good thinking by Silverlode about Tolkien's finely-tuned use of English. As to your responding question, about when tears would be considered 'an evil': I feel that Tolkien generally has his characters cry when crying would seem to be called for: at moments of genuine grief or genuine sentiment. I did think of a few points where he possibly implies disapproval, which I've quoted below. The instances seem to have in common that it's an unhelpful weakness, by implication a woman's or child's weakness, to cry at a time when a man's gotta do when a man's gotta do.
'Shall we mourn here deedless for ever, a shadow- folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the thankless sea? Or shall we return to our home...where a free people might walk.' - Feanor speaking, Sil 9.

‘Poor Faramir!’ he thought. ‘I must find Gandalf. Poor Faramir! Quite likely he needs medicine more than tears.' - Pippin speaking, with reference to Denethor's weeping, LotR V.4

Then Morwen bade farewell to Húrin without tears; and she said: "I will guard what you leave in my keeping, both what is and what shall be." - UT, Tale of Children of Hurin.

When all was ready he returned, and bade Erendis farewell. Then against her will tears were in her eyes. They grieved him, and yet irked him, for his mind was resolved, and he hardened his heart. - UT, Tale of Aldarion and Erendis.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 14 2014, 10:28pm

Post #14 of 18 (3289 views)
Shortcut
I think that tears in general are often considered an evil. [In reply to] Can't Post

At least in western cultures, and especially in England with its famous "stuff upper lip" attitude, crying is often looked down upon. But in a more general sense, the fact that the world is such that tears of pain and grief are common is in itself an evil. Tears are usually an indication that things are not right - and as a thing caused by wrongness, tears are often a symptom of that wrongness. But you can go beyond that and find other instances when tears could be considered an evil. Squire's list is very interesting, and falls into the following categories quite well, so I'll drop them in:


--- Tears can be entirely self-centered or a mark of self-pity - like a child's tantrum. Or they can be an overreaction; like a child convinced they're crippled because they scraped a knee. In those cases, excessive tears are not an appropriate or helpful response, and we consider the overcoming of a tendency to cry in those situations a mark of maturity. If an adult cries heartily over a minor setback like a child would, or indulges tears beyond a period of grief, we consider it a moral weakness.

'Shall we mourn here deedless for ever, a shadow- folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the thankless sea? Or shall we return to our home...where a free people might walk.' - Feanor speaking, Sil 9.


--- Tears can be an evil if they inhibit necessary and reasonable action in oneself or another.

‘Poor Faramir!’ he thought. ‘I must find Gandalf. Poor Faramir! Quite likely he needs medicine more than tears.' - Pippin speaking, with reference to Denethor's weeping, LotR V.4



--- Tears can be used as manipulation; a bid for sympathy, or "crocodile tears" in an attempt to deceive another.


These last two examples of squire's could fall into two categories at once - they can both be examples of inhibiting/not inhibiting necessary action, and also it's not uncommon for men to respond to women's tears as if they were an attempted manipulation, and so one can read overtones of that into both of these as well. Aldarion is "irked" at Erendis for tearing up, because he saw it as something working against him to hold him back; an emotional manipulation (even though it was not deliberate on her part). And in contrast, Morwen might be seen as restraining her tears deliberately so as not to put any pressure on Hurin.

When all was ready he returned, and bade Erendis farewell. Then against her will tears were in her eyes. They grieved him, and yet irked him, for his mind was resolved, and he hardened his heart. - UT, Tale of Aldarion and Erendis.

Then Morwen bade farewell to Húrin without tears; and she said: "I will guard what you leave in my keeping, both what is and what shall be." - UT, Tale of Children of Hurin.

Silverlode



Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



(This post was edited by Silverlode on Aug 14 2014, 10:29pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Aug 14 2014, 10:56pm

Post #15 of 18 (3278 views)
Shortcut
Ah! Thank you [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
it's an unhelpful weakness, by implication a woman's or child's weakness, to cry at a time when a man's gotta do when a man's gotta do.


Thank you, squire for the example and explanation! It's when it's time to do - rather than dwell on - something, that tears are of no use.

But not in times of genuine grief, as in this parting. Also interesting then, is that Erendis' tears are "against her will' and Aldarion is "irked" and "hardens his heart". Apparently a lot of non-genuine games and manipulation going on in that parting, as opposed to the departure at the Havens.


Misto
Lorien

Aug 16 2014, 4:05pm

Post #16 of 18 (3256 views)
Shortcut
One thing only [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the looks of the Grey Havens. Looks like Claude's paintings. Or William Turner's for that matter - although, as far as I know, he got the idea from Claude. Anyway: I love both painters and the Grey Havens look simply stunning.Heart


.Ithilwen.
Rivendell


Aug 17 2014, 1:44am

Post #17 of 18 (3232 views)
Shortcut
Fantastic Analysis, Silverlode [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't read LotR or the Silmarillion in a long time, I was also 15 or 16 at the time. I'm going to have finally reread them and pay far more attention to Tolkien's word usage

Ah! like gold fall the leaves in the wind,
Long years numberless as the wings of trees!
The long years have passed like swift draughts
Of the sweet mead in lofty halls
Beyond the West, beneath the blue vaults of Varda
Wherein the stars tremble
In the voice of her song, holy and queenly...

-Namárië



.Ithilwen.
Rivendell


Aug 17 2014, 1:53am

Post #18 of 18 (3288 views)
Shortcut
Every time... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is one of those moments that gets me every single time. The Grey Havens has always been one of my favorite locations. The ethereal lighting and the architecture; it's impossibly beautiful. The score during these final scenes is also amazing.

Ah! like gold fall the leaves in the wind,
Long years numberless as the wings of trees!
The long years have passed like swift draughts
Of the sweet mead in lofty halls
Beyond the West, beneath the blue vaults of Varda
Wherein the stars tremble
In the voice of her song, holy and queenly...

-Namárië


 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.