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BlackFox
Half-elven
Aug 11 2014, 8:51am
Post #1 of 8
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Screencap of the Day: Some Hurts Go Too Deep
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“How do you pick up the threads of an old life?”
“How do you go on, when in your heart you begin to understand, there is no going back?”
“There are some things that time cannot mend, some hurts that go too deep… that have taken hold.”
Also, a couple of corresponding passages from the book for comparison:
At last the hobbits had their faces turned towards home. They were eager now to see the Shire again; but at first they rode only slowly, for Frodo had been ill at ease. When they came to the Ford of Bruinen, he had halted, and seemed loth to ride into the stream; and they noted that for a while his eyes appeared not to see them or things about him. All that day he was silent. It was the sixth of October.
“Are you in pain, Frodo?” said Gandalf quietly as he rode by Frodo’s side.
“Well, yes I am,” said Frodo. “It is my shoulder. The wound aches, and the memory of darkness is heavy on me. It was a year ago today.”
“Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured,” said Gandalf.
“I fear it may be so with mine,” said Frodo. “There is no real going back. Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same; for I shall not be the same. I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, and a long burden. Where shall I find rest?”
(ROTK, Book VI, Ch. 7: Homeward Bound)
and
One evening Sam came into the study and found his master looking very strange. He was very pale and his eyes seemed to see things far away.
“What’s the matter, Mr. Frodo?” said Sam.
“I am wounded,” he answered, “wounded; it will never really heal.”
But then he got up, and the turn seemed to pass, and he was quite himself the next day. It was not until afterwards that Sam recalled that the date was October the sixth. Two years before on that day it was dark in the dell under Weathertop.
(ROTK, Book VI, Ch. 9: The Grey Havens)
1. Tolkien’s experiences in the World War I have greatly influenced his works. Could Frodo’s condition be compared to that of a traumatized soldier? Is he suffering from what we nowadays call posttraumatic stress disorder?
2. What do you think would have become of Frodo had he stayed in Middle-earth (whether by his own choosing or due to not been given a chance to do so)? Was taking the ship into the West an “easy way out” or really Frodo’s only hope?
Here are two more screencaps: one from the beginning of FOTR…
… and the other from the scene currently in question.
3. How have Frodo’s ordeals changed him?
4. Any interesting details that catch your eye on any of the screencaps?
5. Any other thoughts or comments?
Let me know what you think.
“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
Aug 11 2014, 7:38pm
Post #2 of 8
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1. Yes I believe that Frodo does suffer much like soldiers do during a war. His condition does seem very much like PTSD.
2. I think it was his only viable option. I'm sad it happened but realistically I guess it's what needed to happen.
4. My first thing I notice is the extreme change between Frodo in appearance! The filmgoers obviously did a good job and it was very clever of you to provide contrast.  You can see the toll the ring took on him.
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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven
Aug 12 2014, 3:51pm
Post #3 of 8
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Frodo looks a bit like Gollum in your last screencap
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Or maybe it's just me. Something about his brow line there reminds me of some of Gollum's expressions.
1. Tolkien’s experiences in the World War I have greatly influenced his works. Could Frodo’s condition be compared to that of a traumatized soldier? Is he suffering from what we nowadays call posttraumatic stress disorder?
Absolutely. If not PTSD then some form of trauma after his ordeals.
2. What do you think would have become of Frodo had he stayed in Middle-earth (whether by his own choosing or due to not been given a chance to do so)? Was taking the ship into the West an “easy way out” or really Frodo’s only hope?
I always felt that he would have sort of faded if he'd stayed. Not in an Invisible Man sort of way, but just an inability to take part in or experience the world around him anymore. I suspect he would have stayed in his home and become the grumpy old man no one sees anymore.
I don't think of taking the ship as an "easy way out." It wasn't easy for Frodo to take that ship. I think that he wanted to stay in Middle Earth. He wanted to reconnect with Hobbiton and his friends. He tried. He moved back into Bag End and tried living his life for a while (doesn't he even act as Mayor for a time?). But he just couldn't make it work. Sometimes you just can't make yourself fit into a place after everything you've experienced, no matter how long you try.
3. How have Frodo’s ordeals changed him?
He's certainly aged prematurely from his experiences. If not physically (although he has the aches and pains from his wounds) he's mentally much older than he seemed at the beginning of the movies (and books).
4. Any interesting details that catch your eye on any of the screencaps?
Just the Gollumish bit I noticed above. And the lack of color in his later wardrobe (he'll wear blue again at the Havens, but here it's all neutrals).
5. Any other thoughts or comments?
Thanks for posting!
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Aug 12 2014, 9:04pm
Post #4 of 8
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Thanks for the answers, DoL! //
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“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Aug 12 2014, 9:11pm
Post #5 of 8
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Now that you mention it - he does a bit, doesn't he?
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Good catch! Also...
I don't think of taking the ship as an "easy way out." It wasn't easy for Frodo to take that ship. I think that he wanted to stay in Middle Earth. He wanted to reconnect with Hobbiton and his friends. He tried. He moved back into Bag End and tried living his life for a while (doesn't he even act as Mayor for a time?). But he just couldn't make it work. Sometimes you just can't make yourself fit into a place after everything you've experienced, no matter how long you try. Neither do I. It was meant as a provocation only. I don't think there was an "easy way out" for Frodo. His path was bound to be shadowed by pain and sadness regardless of whether he had stayed or decided to take the ship into the West as he did. But as the latter bore in it a chance to put these shadows behind him, he chose to follow the only ray of light he could see.
And the lack of color in his later wardrobe (he'll wear blue again at the Havens, but here it's all neutrals). Indeed. Nice observation!
Thank you, AD!
“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country
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Loresilme
Valinor
Aug 13 2014, 7:35pm
Post #6 of 8
(1408 views)
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1. Tolkien’s experiences in the World War I have greatly influenced his works. Could Frodo’s condition be compared to that of a traumatized soldier? Is he suffering from what we nowadays call posttraumatic stress disorder?
I suppose the contrast between Frodo and Sam could be compared to returning soldiers, some of whom cannot readjust, others who throw themselves back into the world. I recall my older relatives explaining how when so many of 'the boys' returned from WWII, all they wanted to do - like Sam - was find their girl and get married. So I think it's similar, but I also think there's the additional fantasy element, that Frodo was permanently affected by the Ring, the wraiths, and fantastical creatures like Shelob, in ways that invaded his psychic boundaries and could not be gotten rid of in the everyday, ordinary world.
2. What do you think would have become of Frodo had he stayed in Middle-earth (whether by his own choosing or due to not been given a chance to do so)? Was taking the ship into the West an “easy way out” or really Frodo’s only hope?
I think he left more for Sam's sake. I really think he believed what he was saying, that Sam had a life to live and he couldn't go on being torn between caring so much about Frodo and trying to go on with his own life. Also I'm not sure those injuries that Frodo had would have ever gotten better, and maybe would have continued to worsen. He might have become a recluse, and taken to doing things like walking in the woods and becoming what the other Hobbits would consider to be odd. But I think mainly that Sam never would have been able to focus fully on his own life, and Frodo didn't want that to happen.
3. How have Frodo’s ordeals changed him?
He looks haunted, and in pain.
4. Any interesting details that catch your eye on any of the screencaps?
That despite Bag End being so cozy and charming, two rather very unhappy (ultimately, at least) Hobbits lived there :(.
5. Any other thoughts or comments?
Poor Frodo  .
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Aug 14 2014, 8:11am
Post #7 of 8
(1389 views)
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Thank you for your answers, Loresilme!
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I think he left more for Sam's sake. I really think he believed what he was saying, that Sam had a life to live and he couldn't go on being torn between caring so much about Frodo and trying to go on with his own life. [---] But I think mainly that Sam never would have been able to focus fully on his own life, and Frodo didn't want that to happen. I'd actually never thought about that. But, of course! "My dear Sam, you cannot always be torn in two. You will have to be one and whole for many years," Frodo says. For some reason I always thought he was speaking of himself when he said "you cannot always be torn in two", but now I see that he really was talking about "you", about Sam. Duh... Anyways, now that it has been properly laid out in front of me, then, yes, I agree with you. One of the reasons Frodo decided to leave had to have been Sam's well-being. Just like I believe the reason he stretched out his hand and allowed Sam to pull him back up when he was clinging to the ledge inside Mt. Doom was not to make Sam fail to keep his promise. Had he been alone, he would have gladly perished with the Ring, I think. But Sam was there and Frodo couldn't let him fail as well (because failed he himself had or so he believed). They returned to the Shire and for a while Frodo tried his best to fit back in, but soon realized he couldn't, because "in [his] heart [he] [had begun] to understand, there [was] no going back". Nothing on Middle-earth had the power to ease his suffering, so he used the opportunity given to him and sailed into the West before the shadow hanging above him could start harming others (namely Sam).
That despite Bag End being so cozy and charming, two rather very unhappy (ultimately, at least) Hobbits lived there :(. Indeed. And that only adds to the tragedy. :'(
“As he caught his footing, his head fell back, and the Milky Way flowed down inside him with a roar.” - Yasunari Kawabata, Snow Country
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Loresilme
Valinor
Aug 14 2014, 3:01pm
Post #8 of 8
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for posting these screencaps, and also for this insight which I never considered:
Just like I believe the reason he stretched out his hand and allowed Sam to pull him back up when he was clinging to the ledge inside Mt. Doom was not to make Sam fail to keep his promise. Had he been alone, he would have gladly perished with the Ring, I think. But Sam was there and Frodo couldn't let him fail as well (because failed he himself had or so he believed).
I had always focused on what Frodo had been seeing when he looked in Sam's eyes at the moment in relation to himself, but now that you bring this out, I think this is absolutely true as well, that Frodo could not let go here, for Sam's sake - that Sam did not come that far and sacrifice so much, for Frodo to give up at the end.
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