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boldog
Rohan
Aug 6 2014, 9:50am
Post #1 of 33
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Nazgul in the upcoming film
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How do you think PJ is going to go with their design?
Is he going to have them in their "wraith world" look, or is he going to put them straight into their "black hooded" look? Id prefer hooded version, as that is what most people are familiar with.
And will they be CGI or men in prosthetics/costumes? If the Nazgul are in their "wraith world" look, its highly possible that they will just be cgi, though prosthetics would look downright terrifying! But in their hooded look, i dont see why PJ would make them cgi! Cant be too hard to put nine men in black cloaks  But i have a deep fear that he may just cgi the nine in the dol guldur sequence 
thoughts?
I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.
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Spalko
Rivendell
Aug 6 2014, 9:54am
Post #2 of 33
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I really hope that, if they make them hooded version, they won't be CGI so they keep a coherence with the rest of the movies, but I think that they will have the "wraith world" like when Radagast saw the WItch King.
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 6 2014, 9:56am
Post #3 of 33
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CGI wraiths or real in black...
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... could both work, if the CGI on the wraiths is better than that in AUJ. Or not really better but different - the color especially did not work for me too much.
Maybe we will see the wraith forms... then they pick up their swords and black cloth magically wraps around them. Then they attack.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 6 2014, 9:57am
Post #4 of 33
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The black hooded look wouldn't really make sense
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In FOTR (the film) Saruman discloses to Gandalf that the Nazgul "crossed the River Isen on Midsummer's Eve, disguised as riders in black", as though they hadn't adopted this get-up before. Certainly, if we are to believe that Saruman will be at Dol Guldur (and surely he will) then he shouldn't even have to make this statement if that is what they looked like when he and Gandalf previously encountered them.
Therefore, I think they will go with that 'twilight' look.
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Bishop
Gondor
Aug 6 2014, 11:30am
Post #5 of 33
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Jackson said in an interview that he always wanted to do the Nazgul as cgi in the LOTR trilogy, and would have if they'd had the budget. One shudders at the thought! So we can be fairly sure, considering the choices he's made in this new trilogy, that they will be cgi whether they're in black hooded form or wraith form.
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LordotRings93
Rohan
Aug 6 2014, 12:53pm
Post #6 of 33
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As Bishop stated above, PJ did say he always wanted to do the Nazgul in CGI for the LOTR trilogy. And with the Witch-king being CGI in AUJ, we'll most likely get the same. But I think they'll just be in their wraith form as, again, witnessed in AUJ. I believe they only don the black cloaks when they go off to hunt for the One Ring to conceal themselves.
The Hobbit: The Battle Of The Five Armies 12/17/14
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 6 2014, 1:07pm
Post #7 of 33
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Just because PJ said many moons ago that he originally wanted the Ringwraiths in the LOTR trilogy to be CGI, does not necessarily mean any future appearance of them will be in an animated CGI form.
I'm having a hard time remembering, but PJ's original justification for CGI Ringwraith's was because the wraiths would be limited by an actor's movement. In animated form, they would be much more fluid.
However, they are now cemented in people's minds and are very iconic characters from his adaptations. Why would he change it now? I can't see any reason why he would now opt for any other option, when the originals fit the bill.
I can think of three reasons as to why the Witch-King was CGI in AUJ - it was either a very late addition to film, they no longer had the original wraith-world costume/designs for it, or the task of climbing out of statue couldn't be performed by an actor.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 6 2014, 1:17pm)
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burgahobbit
Rohan
Aug 6 2014, 1:12pm
Post #8 of 33
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I'd like to see them in their wraith-world look
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But much more faded out so that they are barely visible.
For me it's just a continuity problem. The Nazgul are almost entirely invisible in FOTR. You can see a nose or something, but most of the time you look at the dark hood and it seems as if nothing is there.
At least the bright white/blue face of AUJ is nowhere to be seen, so it wouldn't really make sense if that was the only way they are depicted. So that is why I would like their appearance to be much more subtle. Like the first ghost Aragorn sees in ROTK. You can tell it's there but it is hard to make out.
"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I’m afraid, and he gives me courage.” - Gandalf the Grey.
"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 6 2014, 1:21pm
Post #9 of 33
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Well not necessarily - it may have to do with who is seeing them.
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You could make the case that we are really seeing the wraith in AUJ through Rhadagast's eyes (in a sense) and that it would be perfectly conceivable that Istari might perceive them differently to the invisibility "seen" by ordinary men/hobbits etc.
Now that I think of it, it does rather make you wonder why they didn't slip off the old robes at Weathertop - presumably Aragon would have had a tough time against invisible opponents and the Ring could likely have been secured.
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burgahobbit
Rohan
Aug 6 2014, 1:24pm
Post #10 of 33
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LOL if they are invisible why do they need to be disguised at all? Well I suppose if they are to ride horse-back it would certainly raise a lot of suspicion if nine black horses were seen riding extremely hard all over the place as a group without any riders.
But every time they dismount they should have always thrown their black capes off!
"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I’m afraid, and he gives me courage.” - Gandalf the Grey.
"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.
(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Aug 6 2014, 1:24pm)
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 6 2014, 1:30pm
Post #11 of 33
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Without robes, they would have neither shape nor form.
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They wouldn't be very intimidating, would they? How could they physically achieve anything? They are supposed to be intangible and bodiless.
They are not invisible in the same way as Frodo or Bilbo are when they wear the Ring. They "exist" outside of the normal sphere of the world.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 6 2014, 1:33pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 6 2014, 1:51pm
Post #12 of 33
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Shatter everyone's swords? Follow them, wait till the are asleep then pop the robe back on and finish them off?
The Nazgul's powers are either based on factors too obscure to be obviously understood or just don't bear much consistent scrutiny. But I'm only joking in the main.
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Bishop
Gondor
Aug 6 2014, 5:58pm
Post #13 of 33
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It is clear that Jackson has been moving towards more CG over the span of all films, largely I would imagine because of the improvements in technology. The digital creations in these new films are really amazing. He has also swapped out real actors in elaborate costumes with CGI versions late in the game. We know that he has replaced most creatures such as Orcs (actors in costume in earlier films) with mostly CGI renditions. I'd bet dollars to pennies that if the Nazgul appear in cloaked form that they will be CG, and they will have all the creepy movements he always wanted. It's important to remember that the use of real actors in cloaks was the result of a budget limitation, not because Jackson felt the practical costumes would look better.
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Aug 6 2014, 6:03pm
Post #14 of 33
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He did do it with certain Orcs...
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None of the Orcs we saw up-close in the original trilogy were mocap/CGI, yet quite a few are in The Hobbit trilogy (much to the chagrin of myself and many others). Who's to say he won't do the same for the Nazgul? In any case, if he portrays the Nazgul as the mist wraith-type thing we saw in AUJ, then it would have to be CG.
PJ's original justification for CGI Ringwraith's was because the wraiths would be limited by an actor's movement
Thank god he wasn't able to do that in LotR.
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Aug 6 2014, 6:08pm
Post #15 of 33
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A large portion of the Orcs in DoS were not CGI.
Personally, I think the CGI Orcs look terrible compared to their practical counterparts. I know a lot of people like these CG Orcs because they can do more facial expressions, but I've never cared about Orcs having a wide range of expressions. The Orcs aren't really much more than single-minded savages, they don't need to show a lot of emotion or thought.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 6 2014, 6:17pm
Post #16 of 33
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I would bet money that if the Ringwraiths appear in their black cloaked form that they will not be CGI.
(Though, I'd probably also bet that we won't see them in that form at all. I'd be surprised if we see more than the Witch-King in his wraith-world form.)
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 6 2014, 6:19pm)
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Bishop
Gondor
Aug 6 2014, 6:18pm
Post #17 of 33
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Many of the Orcs in this new trilogy are practical. And one can clearly see that attempts were made to keep many things practical. The Goblins, for example, is an interesting case study in which practical design was outmatched by the CGI counterparts.
I agree with several others that it wouldn't make sense anyways to show the Nazgul in their hooded form, so I don't think we'll have to worry about that. I expect they will look like they did emerging from the statue in AUJ.
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Aug 6 2014, 6:19pm
Post #18 of 33
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If they're cloaked, probably not CGI (but you never know).
If they're the incorporeal things we saw in AUJ, then 100% CGI.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 6 2014, 6:29pm
Post #20 of 33
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You'll have to remind me in 4 months time. ;-) /
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Bishop
Gondor
Aug 6 2014, 6:34pm
Post #21 of 33
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I deleted my post by accident....
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OK, gentleman's bet. 
Or if you'd like to make it interesting we could put this on the line. I've always wanted one!
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sycorax82
Rohan
Aug 6 2014, 10:51pm
Post #22 of 33
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Don't count on them even being in the movie...
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Peter has changed what he originally had planned for the Dol Guldur sequences, as we have already seen in DoS. It seems Gandalf was possibly going to face the Witch-king here along with the original Bolg design, but Peter altered this to Gandalf facing Azog and then Sauron himself.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Aug 6 2014, 11:34pm
Post #23 of 33
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I think if we do see them in the next film they will to be in their wraith form, as they were at Weathertop and in AUJ. I think the form in AUJ was very much like the one at Weathertop, as seen by Frodo. (You could see the same amount of features in both films, only for a longer time in the case of the Weathertop Ringwraiths.)
I think the wraith form was well done in CGI in both FotR and AUJ. However, if by any chance the Ringwraiths were shown in their cloaked form, I would certainly hope that they would not be CGI, since the Black Riders were one of the best things in FotR, in my view. They were quite terrifying.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Aug 6 2014, 11:36pm)
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Bishop
Gondor
Aug 7 2014, 1:18am
Post #24 of 33
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I don't think they were CGI in LOTR
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Not to say the scene treatment of the scene was not CGI heavy (the ring world), I believe the Ringwraiths themselves were actors in costume, which is awesome. Although I could be wrong.
Shots from the FOTR EE.
(This post was edited by Bishop on Aug 7 2014, 1:19am)
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Aug 7 2014, 5:43am
Post #25 of 33
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the nazgul in black looked pretty bad ass on-screen, and that's their look in the books i doubt PJ would go against that even if he had a bigger budget. I liked the design of the nazgul in AUJ, very creepy, probably be more like this in BOT5A. -Would also make sense for them to change their appearance in LOTR's to the black hoods.
The flames of war are upon you..
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