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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thranduil's weapons and fighting style
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 5:44am

Post #1 of 48 (2680 views)
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Thranduil's weapons and fighting style Can't Post

So from the trailer, we see HeartThranduil's badass sword skills and with twin sword! Naturally I had a small discussion with Kerewyn on the Thranduil Appreciation thread, but I'd also love to hear what learned Ringers might think. So here's what's been gathered so far:

Firstly, I LOVELOVELOVE Thranduil's swords


And the way he works it Heart

-

On Thranduil's swordgrip

The reverse handgrip Thranduil does on his left-hand sword when we got the quick flash of his left-hand when he was cutting orcs down in the teaser is very interesting to me.


A closeup


It seems to be how Thranduil usually holds that sword and not a fluke since it's the same grip in the earlier scene when he was walking through the carnage.


Closeup


My thoughts
I guess more learned folks would say it's not a practical or feasible grip for combat, but I think for a good all-round defense-offense in a one-against-horde situation that grip complements the conventional grip on his right-hand sword. Plus this is an ELF with both the reputation and the cred of a swordsman! I think employing the different grips for his twin-sword fighting style make perfect sense. Of course it helps that he works it like the best pros!

Kerewyn observed
That’s a hold that I imagine would be better suited to a stabbing downward / chopping motion – like you might hold a dagger for a fatal stab. He must be – and of course he is – marvelously ambidextrous and with such strong flexible wrists to wield it that way in full fight.
My comparison I did in my earlier post with Jadis – she is holding both the swords the same way, and performing almost mirror-image movements, or swipes that reflect each other. Imagine having the supreme fighting ability to wield two swords in different ways, as needed. Game changer indeed.

My thoughts
The mirror movement thingy is the typical twin-sword fighting style I believe. Again, I'm no expert but I reckon I've watched enough kungfu stuff growing up to earn some armchair critic cred. It dawned on me that twin-sword fighting is quite a limiting style (mirror moves leave a lot of potential openings for attackers too and is just limiting in the wielder's reach) and probably more stylised and suited for one-to-one action or in a tournament kind of thing. Plus, that mirror-style can look a bit too oriental (and for some strange reason it tends to be heroines who do twin-swords, twin-something else is more common for the guys), which would have been odd on HIS MAGNIFICENCE. So I am chuffed to see him in action and looking like nothing from kungfu movies or conventional fight stylesHeart Heart That reverse grip is the sword-grip equivalent of the sideway pistol hold that gets flaked for being unrealistic and for show only. It does require a lot more power and control to wield this grip well (I got a bit of a primer on it when I visited a forum discussing the villians, incidentally silver-haired bishies, in the animation movie Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, a long way back...) and if it was the grip on a single sword, or the main one in a twin-sword style, I'd say meh (logically only and just momentarily of course because there is no meh where our ELF is concerned) but as the secondary sword, I do believe it works, and effectively and realistically complements the conventional main-sword grip. Plus it removes the element of anticipatory offence by his attackers if they can't take advantage of the repetitive conventional style. And as you say, the flexibility of the different gripes is ability supremo, not to mention cool and absolute badass. No one can touch himHeart


Kerewyn observed
(in ref to conventional twin-sword fighting styles) Hmm, yes, quite stylised, thinking of the very few female fighters I have seen. And yeah, it's more 'pose-y' than gritty and real - the kind of fight where attackers are waiting in a line or circle for their 'turn'.

The conventional sword-fighter would usually be holding a shield in left hand. Thranduil raises the bar on that - his defence arm is also an attacking arm. It's either one opponent has to look out for two attacking swords (deadly!) or two opponents have to look out for this one attacker (even more deadly) - and each sword with a 'mind of its own'."


To add on, in the vlog12 bit, its the same grips

In action




On his sword sheath(s?)
I am also intrigued by the accessory he uses to hold his sword, so much so that I started a thread on it. Hopefully we'll get more information in one of the coming WETA artbooks. For one, it's not a conventional full scabbard, more like a partial sheath, very gun holster-like now that I think about it. But it is on his left hip only. Just like in the orc interrogation scene, but on his right there's no sheath so where does the main sword's twin go when not in action? Could that left-side sheath be a double-sword holder for combat situations? Oh I'm dying to know!



Closeup


Another view of the sheath from the orc beheading scene. Notice how there is there scabbard and the sword itself shows through the other side of the sheath as it slides in.



One other detail
Those trailing bits from his armour we see in that first backview doesn't seem to serve any function except flap around don't they? But I'm wondering if the slightly dragonny motif on the shape and the fabric might be a sort of resonance re his desire for treasure and just his formidable reputation as a game changing swordsman and isolation aka let sleeping dragons lie but when they waken, watch out?



So to the wise of TORn's forums, any thoughts you care to share? Thank you.


I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Aug 3 2014, 5:44am)


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Aug 3 2014, 10:13am

Post #2 of 48 (1212 views)
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the short answer would be he fights like this as the film makers think it looks cool. [In reply to] Can't Post

my understanding is that reverse grip is a nonsense in reality for a sword of any type. there may be an application of such a grip on occasion at a pinch and in absolute need but as a primary means of use i have not seen it done by anyone who knows what they are doing. coventional double blade fighting in my very limited understanding is more along the lines of primary weapon and secondary such as a parrying dagger or similar. shields also were not limited to defense.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Aug 3 2014, 12:13pm

Post #3 of 48 (1206 views)
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i dont know if this has been observed by others [In reply to] Can't Post

but basically Thranduil is doing with 2 swords what Legolas (now AKA Beibers Bane) does with 2 knives, even to the extent of the reverse grip so in the film world if that is in fact the intended link i say well done to the film makers in that context. basically dad is doing what his son does but at the next level so to speak due to the bigger more difficult to wield in such a way swords opposed to Legolas beautiful daggers.


Elarie
Gondor

Aug 3 2014, 1:12pm

Post #4 of 48 (1125 views)
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Maybe he holds the left hand sword that way so he can stab to the back [In reply to] Can't Post

without having to turn around? With elf hearing and elf reflexes he could probably take out any orc attacking from behind with his left hand while keeping his eyes on the enemy in front of him.


And once again the world has not arranged itself just for me.


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Aug 3 2014, 3:15pm

Post #5 of 48 (1095 views)
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love that gif! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thranduil rocks.Wink


Glassary
Rivendell


Aug 3 2014, 4:06pm

Post #6 of 48 (1049 views)
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That's what I think [In reply to] Can't Post

Appears Thranduil goes into the fight with the objective of maximum carnage. Taking them out in from and back while he advances, the reverse grip would probably be key to that style.


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 4:45pm

Post #7 of 48 (1071 views)
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the Mirkwood elves and the C & D book [In reply to] Can't Post

...comments on the Mirkwood elven weapons and how the fighting style is tied to an overarching concept. Was a deliberate choice vs. for flash.Heart

But some folks are still waiting on the books, so I'll leave that so folks can drool read over that themselves.Tongue
Then you will understand WinkHeartHeartHeartHeart

Our snow snow leopard! Oooooh it's amazing to have all of the Thranduil fighting footage in a single threadHeartHeartHeartHeartHeart

Anyway, outside of the aesthetics e.g. this IS a king, and Thorin and the Heirs had lush travelling gear too. Extra fabric layers like that + patterning breaks up an outline same as tigers, ocelots, and snow leopards have. E;g. you may not know where to strike at, and a mis-strike would give an elf those milliseconds to twist and cut you down.

For me - the whole effect is (and the OP knows this reference) is to die for.WinkHeartHeartHeartHeartHeart


Retro315
Rivendell

Aug 3 2014, 4:49pm

Post #8 of 48 (1080 views)
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Samurai [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps because of the far easterly (well, the easternmost part of the West) nature of the Wood-elf realm, Erebor and the desolation neighborhood, I see a lot of Samurai influence in Thranduil. Specifically Thranduil - not so much the very Sylvan look of Tauriel, elf scouts, or Legolas's ranging garb.

Samurai rather famously use a switched grip with their katanas, so that the precision of cutting with a one-sided blade comes more from the pivot of the arm and the follow-through of the elbow - a very natural motion - than flailing about as you would a rapier or a thinner European fencing blade.

Of course, that's a bit academic - because it's his main gauche that he's using switch-grip, not his primary longsword. But even his quick flick and unflick from his hip-sheath goes right to Samurai iconography.

As for whether it's common to use a switch-grip on a main gauche (second blade) to parry, I'm not entirely sure. Parrying with a second blade is obviously a little less secure than a shield, but the lighter weight in skilled hands can double as a nasty offense since, yes, you can bash with a shield, but they're going to be hacking at it - everybody's going to be ducking and leaning away from a razorblade coming at their neck.

I'm fascinated to see what one of the oldest elves in Middle-earth can do in combat. But heck, for that matter ... Elrond is coming to Dol Guldur. We've never seen him in elite combat against numerous foes, either. Dagorlad was hacking, chopping warfare and the focus was on the Ring, the emotions, and the Numenoreans. The cavalry ride against the wargs, he was just one of many. We haven't seen Elrond vs. an ensemble of orcs yet. I bet he's a lot more hack/hack/cut/cut than Galadriel.

(Of course the real excitement is the prospect of seeing Saruman the White with a sword in his hand.)


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 6:02pm

Post #9 of 48 (1034 views)
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Fabulous post - THANK YOU for sharing that info! [In reply to] Can't Post

And interestingly, re the C & D book (again) mentions re the architecture, costumes, etc. the designers did look far afield, to the East - Asia - even the American colonial period re some costumes.

As a side note, I've often thought Dori's BOFA costume has a tinge of Samurai influence with its cut and line. Very happy to see a global influence through the Hobbit and it all is working beautifully IMO.

Thank you again for the fighting style details - fascinating, and sounds like the Hobbit swordmasters know exactly what they are doing re training.


Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Aug 4 2014, 1:12am

Post #10 of 48 (962 views)
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I've tried reverse grip main gauche, [In reply to] Can't Post

and it didn't work very well for me. But I know people who are very good at it. It's a good defensive style if you don't have a shield, but the trade off is that it is very awkward to attack with a reverse grip. I have faith that the choreographers will make it look very stylish and adequately realistic.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Aug 4 2014, 5:04am

Post #11 of 48 (951 views)
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I think I know why he does the reverse grip!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

If you watch that clip of him moving a few times, you can see where his blade (as it comes down) hits him in the leg. His sword is single bladed, and due to the reverse hand grip the blunt side, not the sharp one, bumps against his leg as it comes down Sly

As another poster mentioned above, this would give him the ability to stab someone coming behind him as well.

I also moved my hand as he does to test a theory, and realized that a shield is held with the left palm facing backward (for a right handed swordsman-meaning toward the body, rather than away from it), and if his sword is doubling as a shield then it makes more sense to hold it that way as well- there's more force and strength there (think bicep curl) and having palm facing inward with your arm at a right angle is also a self defense move (blocks the arm of someone trying to hit you). Most people are stronger with palm inward than palm out, because it twists your radius and ulna (the forearm bones) uncomfortably to have your arm up at a right angle but palm forward if it's near your body (hurt my wrist just doing so, and that was without a sword in my hand). Palm backward, however, keeps the bones straight and is less likely to produce a wrist injury if something heavy came at you and you're trying to stop the blow.

This would keep the blade in front of his body, thus protecting his torso and neck without twisting his wrist. The palm facing inward would better absorb blows coming at him, with more strength applied to keep the blocked weapon from reaching his torso, and thus acting as both a shield and a weapon. It keeps the sharp side of the blade away from his leg and body and towards his opponent. It provides the ability to quickly and efficiently stab someone behind him as he's moving forward with his right hand. It allows him to both attack and defend with both hands also.

Seems to me as though it's a very, very good idea for a skilled duel wielder such as Thranduil to use the reverse grip on the defensive hand (left usually, as most people are right handed) given all the things he can do with it mentioned above Smile



(This post was edited by Cirashala on Aug 4 2014, 5:05am)


Bombadil
Half-elven

Aug 4 2014, 11:34am

Post #12 of 48 (860 views)
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TRUST Meneldor..He Knows of WHAT? he speaks... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bomby has
Grown a
GREAT Respect for

one of our own...
who has

Battled
in Re-Enactment
Battlezzz... many times
Before..

MASTER
Meneldor, you
Bow to no one,
HERE on TORn,

when it comes to
BATTLES!!

(@ your service)
bomby

Pirate


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 1:41pm

Post #13 of 48 (832 views)
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Absolutely! [In reply to] Can't Post

And why not? Wink A shield isn't all that cool an offensive choice. Plus I see symmetry with the twin swords to Legolas twin knives. Tauriel too uses twin knives. So it seems thematic.

I'm a fan of a manga/anime series Samurai X, and it can be a realistic, but difficult to master, grip/fighting style. Besides, it looks cool as hell. HeartSlyTongueAngelic


I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 1:43pm

Post #14 of 48 (822 views)
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Oops... I guess I should read both your posts before answering [In reply to] Can't Post

But totally agree on the link.



Quote
if that is in fact the intended link i say well done to the film makers in that context. basically dad is doing what his son does but at the next level so to speak due to the bigger more difficult to wield in such a way swords opposed to Legolas beautiful daggers.

oooh, nice observation about the swords as levelling up for dad. BADASS!Wink



Quote
Legolas (now AKA Beibers Bane)

LoL How true!



I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 1:45pm

Post #15 of 48 (828 views)
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Yeah! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Appears Thranduil goes into the fight with the objective of maximum carnage. Taking them out in from and back while he advances, the reverse grip would probably be key to that style.

Plus it can offer more versatility in terms of defense too.



I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 1:47pm

Post #16 of 48 (830 views)
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I'm dying already! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
For me - the whole effect is (and the OP knows this reference) is to die for.WinkHeartHeartHeartHeartHeart

Still don't gots it yet! Frown



Quote
Our snow snow leopard! Oooooh it's amazing to have all of the Thranduil fighting footage in a single threadHeartHeartHeartHeartHeart

Yeah! HeartHeartHeartHeartHeart just needed an excuse for this thread Tongue But well, not all the footage, that other bit from vlog12 is missing Evil



Quote
Extra fabric layers like that + patterning breaks up an outline same as tigers, ocelots, and snow leopards have. E;g. you may not know where to strike at, and a mis-strike would give an elf those milliseconds to twist and cut you down.

Good point! HeartHeartHeart




I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 2:04pm

Post #17 of 48 (825 views)
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Wow... thanks for sharing Retro315 [In reply to] Can't Post

New terms learnt: Main Gauche, Switched Grip, Flick, Unflick, (are these two specific to the sheathing/unsheathing?)



Quote
Perhaps because of the far easterly (well, the easternmost part of the West) nature of the Wood-elf realm, Erebor and the desolation neighborhood, I see a lot of Samurai influence in Thranduil. Specifically Thranduil - not so much the very Sylvan look of Tauriel, elf scouts, or Legolas's ranging garb.

Samurai rather famously use a switched grip with their katanas, so that the precision of cutting with a one-sided blade comes more from the pivot of the arm and the follow-through of the elbow - a very natural motion - than flailing about as you would a rapier or a thinner European fencing blade.

Of course, that's a bit academic - because it's his main gauche that he's using switch-grip, not his primary longsword. But even his quick flick and unflick from his hip-sheath goes right to Samurai iconography.


I think the beautiful thing about the Samurai motif is that it is so well adapted it's quite organic, and doesn't take you, or me rather, out of the moment as in screaming "Orient!" And being an Asian, I'm quite easily taken out of the moment by odd placements of oriental stuff or influences.

It's fascinating that katanas are curved for speedier draws and though the other Elven realms have curved swords, Thranduil's are straight blades, given the production team's penchant for themes. I think the idea of his lightning fast swrod-draws, or flick and unflick, as you put it (I hope I got it right), was probably an inspiration for the minimalism of the hip-sheath (another cool term, rolls off the tongue better than partial sheath Smile ), to overcome the impediments of drawing a straight blade from a full scabbard.



Quote
Parrying with a second blade is obviously a little less secure than a shield, but the lighter weight in skilled hands can double as a nasty offense since, yes, you can bash with a shield, but they're going to be hacking at it - everybody's going to be ducking and leaning away from a razorblade coming at their neck.

That's what I was thinking too! Great to know I might be on the right track here.Sly


And I am also looking forward to seeing everyone in action... though I am definitely most keen on ThranduilHeartTongueAngelic


I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 2:06pm

Post #18 of 48 (828 views)
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I'm still dying here you know [In reply to] Can't Post

Frown Oh that book can't get here fast enough!



Quote
sounds like the Hobbit swordmasters know exactly what they are doing re training.

fershure! Now I wonder if we'll get a feature on the fighting styles in the EE or a book? *crossed fingers* that would so make my geekdom.



I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 2:10pm

Post #19 of 48 (823 views)
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Meneldor [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for weighing in! Great to hear from someone with actual experience and to know it's possible.



Quote
I have faith that the choreographers will make it look very stylish and adequately realistic.

This! So far for me, except for a few rather too stretched out imagery *cough*barrel ride*cough*, the production has been great in making the cool look both realistic and off the wall at the same time.Smile




I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 2:12pm

Post #20 of 48 (834 views)
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Yup [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Seems to me as though it's a very, very good idea for a skilled duel wielder such as Thranduil to use the reverse grip on the defensive hand (left usually, as most people are right handed) given all the things he can do with it mentioned above Smile

Thanks for weighing in, Cirashala. Together with Meneldor and Retro315's comments, I am well satisfied Thranduil's going to be magnificent with his swordplay HeartHeartHeart




I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 2:12pm

Post #21 of 48 (807 views)
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We does, Bomby, we does! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Aug 4 2014, 3:50pm

Post #22 of 48 (790 views)
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Aww, gee guys, you're making me blush. [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush*bows*



They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


KeenObserver
Lorien


Aug 4 2014, 4:15pm

Post #23 of 48 (815 views)
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Oh, for sure [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am well satisfied Thranduil's going to be magnificent with his swordplay HeartHeartHeart

Killer OP, BTW, Lurker.

I mean, this talk about Main Gauche, Switched Grip, Flick, Unflick, etc.,
is really cool and all, but will we be able to suppress our "squees" when
we get to witness the magnificent slicing and dicing on the silver screen?

That's the question.

I've recently discovered squealing. I've figured out how to "squee"
effectively and that it's actually okay for a dude to produce such a sound.

However:

1. I don't want to startle or disturb the other admission-paying viewers.
And
2. I'm a grown manUnimpressed(it would be downright embarrassing and inappropriate).

This could be a problem for me. I'm gonna have a hard time containing myself.
Laugh
In all seriousness, this is an appealing thread filled with many informative posts.

If I do squeal, I'll just have to take after Meneldor by training myself in the
art of war and getting back in touch with my masculine side.Tongue

”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 4 2014, 8:29pm

Post #24 of 48 (762 views)
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but Lurker we'll lose you for a while [In reply to] Can't Post

...when the C & D book gets to you. 'Coz you'll just want HOURS and HOURS to just be left alone, to lovingly peruse all the lushness HeartHeartHeart. At least for me it's really enhanced my enjoyment of the films, tho by this time didn't think
that was possible. It's killing me thinking all those lovely things are IN STORAGE someplace - I guess - and now it's all coming down to PJ in a dark room and other folks in dark rooms, w. sound boards and mega-computers and digital
artists working away like busy ants.Frown


Kerewyn
Rohan


Aug 4 2014, 10:06pm

Post #25 of 48 (753 views)
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I have just learnt so much! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow Lurker - thanks for bringing our discussion here so we can learn from so many highly knowledgeable folk!

I am completely ignorant of all fighting terms. All I know that I suddenly became fascinated when watching the 'Chronicles of Narnia' recently, knowing that like Jadis, Thranduil would also be wielding two swords, but upping the ante more than considerably. Now I see how stylised the Narnia moves are - impressive for the lower level context, and considering she's fighting one inexperienced opponent, but yes, far more of a posey 'movie' fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhzVukK4WkQ

Cirashala, I like your analysis of Thranduil's reverse grip move, and how the left arm can be both defensive and incredibly dangerous. I must admit, when thinking about this previously, I tried it moving just my arm, then holding a pen, and I just couldn't 'get' it.
So I went to the kitchen and obtained a pair of large kitchen knives, holding a large sheathed knife in my left hand. (I live alone so no one was alarmed!).

At first, the reverse grip felt odd,but when I turned the blade outward, so it would be away from my leg when it fell, I felt far more confident. I then strode about the house for a while - look out, any intruders!!... and practised (in very slo-mo) the move from the vlog. I can see how that arm can strike quite a forceful swipe - it had the satisfying feel of an unexpected backhand tennis move (or squash, which is the racket sport I've played), then moving down underarm and behind to surprise any attackers coming from that angle. If one was to hold the left sword the normal way, and you wanted to take a slash at someone approaching from behind, you'd have to partially turn that way and open your shoulder, exposing the breast.

I can also see how, in a defensive pose with the palm facing inwards, just a swivel downward of palm can flick the blade in a dangerous undercut (if that's the right term)

Anyway, lots to think about, and now I will watch any sword play with far more interest. Smile and brush up on those terms, see if I can become familiar with them.


Quote
I've recently discovered squealing. I've figured out how to "squee"
effectively and that it's actually okay for a dude to produce such a sound.

Keen Observer, you made me laugh tea all over my keyboard!

'People don't know where I begin and latex ends, which has always been an ambition for me.' (Martin Freeman)

(This post was edited by Kerewyn on Aug 4 2014, 10:08pm)

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