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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
My biggest fear is that Bilbo...
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Peterthorn of Rohan
Rivendell


Aug 2 2014, 4:43pm

Post #1 of 37 (1613 views)
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My biggest fear is that Bilbo... Can't Post

will not be the main character in BOFA and he will have even less screentime than in DOS. Martin Freeman is the greatest revelation in the Hobbit trilogy and it seems from the trailer(which however is amazing) that Bilbo is not going to be the star. Bilbo's relationship with Thorin should be emphasized and I fear that some great scenes from the book featuring him, may be ommited.


Fleuz
Lorien


Aug 2 2014, 4:57pm

Post #2 of 37 (859 views)
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Have you read the book? [In reply to] Can't Post

Then you know, that in the original storyline Bilbo is passed out during the battle.
In the trailer you spot him a couple of times during the battle. Evil


Old Toby
Gondor


Aug 2 2014, 5:04pm

Post #3 of 37 (779 views)
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I don't really think you have to worry [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that given the differences between the book and these films, the weight (or screen time) given to Bilbo will be consistent. The book is very Bilbo-centric, but even there he was pretty much out of the picture for the majority of the BotFA, he being unconscious. That certainly wouldn't do for the film, and I think we'll see him take a more active role.

The films emphasize a more ensemble cast rather than focusing on an individual, and with this last one, we have to reap the emotional fallout of what will happen with the heirs of Durin, so I suspect we will have enough interaction between Bilbo, Thorin, Kili (and Fili, hopefully) to take us to that point that we need to be at towards the end.

I agree with you completely about Martin Freeman. He's a gem of an actor, and his Bilbo is spot on, IMO. The picture of him on that last teaser poster speaks volumes.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 2 2014, 6:10pm

Post #4 of 37 (720 views)
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I don't think you need worry about that at all... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's already clear that the Arkenstone story - Bilbo's big moment at this stage of the book, and the heart of his changing relationship with Thorin, is in the film script. The trailer was careful to emphasise Bilbo right from the beginning. Honestly, after seeing it I can't imagine why the idea would even cross anyone's mind. It's pretty clear that Bilbo will play a bigger role in the battle on film than he does in the book. Everything we've seen so far, everything that has been said in interviews and articles confirms it. Then there's Bilbo's homecoming...

On this, I really do think you can trust Peter Jackson. Think of the lengths he went to to get Martin Freeman in the first place - and you're right, Martin Freeman is brilliant in the part. There's no way they'll waste that.


minnymomo
The Shire

Aug 2 2014, 6:20pm

Post #5 of 37 (639 views)
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dont worry :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand why you worried because I was thinking the same thing while watching DoS cuz i expected it to be more Bilbo-centric.

But I don’t think TBOFA will be the same , as Peter stated in a lot of interviews that the last film will be very emotional and focus on Thorin and Bilbo’s relationship that had changed. So if it’s gonna be a tragedy the same way Peter said,it just have to focus on Bilbo POV.

Oh also i dont think Bilbo gonna be pass out tru the battle.He is totally in from the look of the poster.


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 2 2014, 6:34pm

Post #6 of 37 (654 views)
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LOL Dormouse do you have elvish blood? [In reply to] Can't Post

Time and again you bring canon, clarity, wisdom *bows* (one of my favorite posts of yours will always be tying together the streams of gold in the forges scene with the original work from the book).

And amazingly you knew this forgotten book memory I had been struggling with, so grateful for that info re "Red Moon and Black Mountain" - time to put out some tendrils in the used book stores....

*Bows* Love your postsHeart. And I personally think these movies are MF's in that he IS the Hobbit. Yes, I watch Thorin like a moth heading to its doom in candle-light. But I also watch MF - one of the more interesting things for me is watching Bilbo's face as hope changes to despair outside the hidden door, and Bilbo's faceHeart reflects every nuance of that as the situation goes downhill, temporarily.


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 2 2014, 7:22pm

Post #7 of 37 (591 views)
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Oh, I wish! [In reply to] Can't Post

But sadly no - all mouse (well, human, if I'm honest).

I've lived through books since I was old enough to pick them up. And I won't claim to remember all of them but the ones that impressed me, those I don't forget and often go back to. Merlin's Magic - the Alan Garner books; The Weirdstone of Brisingamen (first book I ever bought) and The Moon of Gomrath - Red Moon and Black Mountain (and another by Joy Chant set in the same world; The Grey Mane of Morning). All the Green Knowe books. C.S Lewis, Rosenmary Sutcliff - and Tolkien, of course. And lots more. Hate to admit it, but I can even quote my very, very first book, Little Lost Lamb - one of those big board books for little kids. (If the used book stores don't help you, BookFinder.com will - links you to booksellers all round the world.)

And thank you. *Returns the bow* - not easy in a teapot!

I'm very much enjoying your delight in Thorin (who has come alive for me in the films - I never liked him much in the book Blush ) He is - well, majestic (we ARE going to have a hard time in December...) But Martin Freeman is amazing. So, so expressive, even when he doesn't say anything.


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 2 2014, 8:32pm

Post #8 of 37 (549 views)
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For the love of books! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Hate to admit it, but I can even quote my very, very first book, Little Lost Lamb - one of those big board books for little kids. (If the used book stores don't help you, BookFinder.com will - links you to booksellers all round the world.)


Oh I love that! And thank you for the link - because I've often said re my love for Thorin, and lately Thranduil, that "it's as though this Celtic warrior god" stepped from the pages of my books as a living being." One of those books being a whole set, Time-Life's "Enchanted World" series which I am STILL trying to track down all of. Out of print, older, and yet so full of wonderful art from so many different artists, so well-researched, so many wonderful myths and legends and cultures. An aunt had a few, found a few elsewhere - the hunt goes on, hopefully one I can afford w. older books. But I had better get to it before it all goes digital!MadUnsureFrown

From you:

Quote
I'm very much enjoying your delight in Thorin (who has come alive for me in the films - I never liked him much in the book Blush )


This meant a lot, as one of my more respected TORn posters and teachers. Because behind all my squeees and whatnotTongue, for me the film Thorin envisioned went to the heart, as one of my teachers said once "you look up and suddenly see something larger than yourself, that takes you outside of self".

And I've had moments like that in real life - even an autumn day I remember when I stood under a scarlet maple in full color with the bluest of skies behind, or being at the beach at sunset and all these dolphins came in close to shore, arcing out of the water, feeding and playing. But I never thought I'd idly click on a web link in an article and get hit so hard with a visual. Two years later and I still remember that moment!Heart (This was about all the casting controversy which I hadn't been paying attention to, and then for me "click" and my world changed...)

And thankfully with RA's consummate skill, when I finally saw AUJ, at least for me the multi-depth performance would really bring the vision alive, thankfully. Like getting Orcrist in the heart, and more than once. Heart

As does Martin Freeman's superb, "born-to-be-Bilbo" performance. Even this trailer - MF's narrative also went to the heart. Every voice nuance is perfection. The way MF uses his face, body, hands - like one thing I notice in the spider scene, where he is standing and thinking, his hands flutter like frantic birds for a moment - it's flawless performing.HeartHeartHeartHeartHeart

Well, I'd better get to some chores *grins* before I get sidetracked and anyway I wanna re-watch DOS tonight. But BTW Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass are on my top 25 favorites list of all time, so great avatar IMO. "You must be mad, or else you wouldn't be here" Cool
(Cheshire Cat is my favorite!!!)









Rickster
Rohan

Aug 2 2014, 8:53pm

Post #9 of 37 (555 views)
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he is not [In reply to] Can't Post

He is not a main figure.
Dwarfs are and The elfs
My biggest fear is that the movie will end. And we know it will happen


Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Aug 2 2014, 9:09pm

Post #10 of 37 (561 views)
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when I saw Lotr [In reply to] Can't Post

and especially Fellowship for the first time, I was swept off my feet by a number of things at the same time: the scenery, the costumes, the music, the storytelling, the actors, the fights, the special effects... the list is endless...

These films have been a milestone in many senses..

But, second time around, when I entered ME for the Hobbit, I was already familiar with this world and PJ's way of telling Tolkien's stories but I was not impressed less...

because this time, from a book where the characters were not exceptionally deep or thoroughly fleshed out (as it is typical of a children's book), the scriptwriters have focused their attention mostly on the creation of the characters.

And I have never felt more interest, affection, well... love for a film's characters in my life ever.
I don't know, I can't explain it...rationally...
It just happenedHeartBlush
Maybe the casting choices, maybe the script, maybe a kind of magic... I don't know. It comes straight from my heart ( and I am not a sentimental, I am the first to be surprised).


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 2 2014, 11:03pm

Post #11 of 37 (489 views)
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Beautiful post [In reply to] Can't Post

Agree.


Quote
And I have never felt more interest, affection, well... love for a film's characters in my life ever.
I don't know, I can't explain it...rationally...
It just happenedHeartBlush
Maybe the casting choices, maybe the script, maybe a kind of magic... I don't know. It comes straight from my heart ( and I am not a sentimental, I am the first to be surprised).


I'd call it love, for me. And I don't consider myself a sentimentalist either, am too cynical and often acid-tongued. I don't generally like "chick flicks" and rapidly become impatient - to put it politely - with what I think of as sentiment-overload. And yet I've lost my heart to a company of 14 hairy guys, one in particular. I can't really explain it either Unsure???? because I've seen LOTR so often, and it never had that kind of effect.

When it's all over - tho in real life and on film, it will never be really over - like Bilbo I'd like to go back the mountain myself. Only it's New Zealand - I'd like to see what Thorin & co. saw - so something for me to work for.






Glorfindela
Valinor


Aug 2 2014, 11:18pm

Post #12 of 37 (458 views)
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Ha! [In reply to] Can't Post

I worked for Time-Life (in the UK) for a long time, and I remember when we started producing that series, though I wasn't personally involved with it since I was working on another big series at the time. I particularly remember the dragon book, with loads of specially commissioned illustrations. We got free copies of all the books that were produced, but I haven't kept any from that series.

I'm amazed that anyone remembers those books (from before the days of the Internet). You are right, they were very well researched.


In Reply To
Oh I love that! And thank you for the link - because I've often said re my love for Thorin, and lately Thranduil, that "it's as though this Celtic warrior god" stepped from the pages of my books as a living being." One of those books being a whole set, Time-Life's "Enchanted World" series which I am STILL trying to track down all of. Out of print, older, and yet so full of wonderful art from so many different artists, so well-researched, so many wonderful myths and legends and cultures.



Avandel
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 1:13am

Post #13 of 37 (420 views)
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Books are family heirlooms of sorts for us [In reply to] Can't Post

Or at least they stay and get passed around, to the readers at least. No-one seems to toss the books. There's a dragon book? AAAAAGH. Just wish SOMEONE had bought the collection in the first place - we've got all of some World War series - sigh.

It's a shame they don't re-release those - but sigh, maybe the days of finely produced books are slowly fading. My search will continue and of course I will be all afire to get the dragon book. Wow, sounds like the stuff you must have seen pass through your hands is amazing!

But IMO some books like the WETA books DEMAND a hardcopy. Love the little goodies they tuck into the back of those.Tongue


KeenObserver
Lorien


Aug 3 2014, 1:23am

Post #14 of 37 (446 views)
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Land of the Kiwis [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin speaks very highly of it: 100% Middle-earth, 100% Pure New Zealand (I'm sure you've seen this beforeWink)

Some day I shall book a flight . . . and then I will experience the mountains, rivers, forests and ranges for myself.

In Reply To
When it's all over - tho in real life and on film, it will never be really over - like Bilbo I'd like to go back the mountain myself. Only it's New Zealand - I'd like to see what Thorin & co. saw - so something for me to work for.


”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 4:27am

Post #15 of 37 (379 views)
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I want to see mountains again, Avandel [In reply to] Can't Post

Just a redundant ditto on dormouse and New Zealand. I don't know when, but someday I'll get there and if the stars are aligned, I will be atop one of those magnificent peaks going "Probably a permanent holiday: I don't expect I shall return. In fact, I don't mean to, and I have made all arrangements."Heart AngelicTongueEvil


Just call me Lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, Four (new! posted 16 Jul)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Starling
Half-elven


Aug 3 2014, 6:06am

Post #16 of 37 (365 views)
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I have a couch [In reply to] Can't Post

you can park on. Smile


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 3 2014, 8:18am

Post #17 of 37 (367 views)
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Oh yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

Me too. And I can't explain it, and I know that a lot the people I know would think it a bit crazy, but I don't care (and I don't tell them!)

This thread (and this forum) often remind me of a line from the film Shadowlands, 'We read to know we are not alone.'


Glorfindela
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 9:21am

Post #18 of 37 (329 views)
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Hard-copy books [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure whether the 'dragon book' was a book just about dragons, come to think of it (it may have been about other fabulous creatures as well). However, I do distinctly remember a section about different types of Chinese dragon, with each creature illustrated.

I don't have the Second World War series. The only series I have complete is the cookery series, and I also have the odd book like The Great Liners, and several books about countries and wild places (produced before my time at the company). Each of those books took nine months to produce, and you would work on one book for all of that time, researching the pictures and text (physically going to museums and libraries), preparing long shooting scripts for (often legendary Life magazine) photographers who went on long trips on location, supervising shoots, editing pictures, checking text and so on. Time-Life were also meticulous about checking the text for both factual and grammatical accuracy. No one produces books in that way any more – today most books are just churned out in a matter of a few weeks in many cases, and comparatively few have long shelf lives. Of course there are publishers like Thames & Hudson who do still produce some worthwhile illustrated books, mainly in specialist areas (for collectors and connoisseurs, for instance)…

Anyway, rambling on OT and need to get back to work.

(And with this post, have just entered Tol Eressa.)


In Reply To
Or at least they stay and get passed around, to the readers at least. No-one seems to toss the books. There's a dragon book? AAAAAGH. Just wish SOMEONE had bought the collection in the first place - we've got all of some World War series - sigh.

It's a shame they don't re-release those - but sigh, maybe the days of finely produced books are slowly fading. My search will continue and of course I will be all afire to get the dragon book. Wow, sounds like the stuff you must have seen pass through your hands is amazing!

But IMO some books like the WETA books DEMAND a hardcopy. Love the little goodies they tuck into the back of those.Tongue



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Aug 3 2014, 9:22am)


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Aug 3 2014, 2:31pm

Post #19 of 37 (296 views)
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I'm not worried [In reply to] Can't Post

Really the3rd film contains a lot but the central story is the Arkenstone, the fate of the Heirs of Durin and Bilbo's part in the whole thing. I think the teaser poster with Bilbo on it speaks to that.

That pose by Bilbo in the teaser poster comes as the book nears it's end with Bilbo paying respect to Thorin as he leaves Erebor. At least that's my take on the poster.

I think we will see Bilbo in a very significant part of the film. It has been tricky to construct these films with an ensemble cast and yet maintain the focus of Bilbo at the center I will admit. Jackson has succeeded on some, not on others but overall done an excellent job.

I don't think we will be disappointed about that in the last film.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Noria
Rohan

Aug 3 2014, 2:54pm

Post #20 of 37 (288 views)
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I'm not afraid [In reply to] Can't Post

As was said above, it's true that PJ's version of The Hobbit is more of an ensemble piece than a one character story. Bilbo is sharing the stage with Gandalf, Thorin and to some extent the Wood Elves. AUJ and primarily DoS set up a number of stories that will culminate in TBOTFA.

Once the Dol Guldur subplot is finished, all these characters and stories will be turning towards Erebor, towards Bilbo. He will still share the stage but I'd be surprised if the story didn't stlll turn on him.


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 4:15pm

Post #21 of 37 (239 views)
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Love that NZ commercial [In reply to] Can't Post

Makes you want to make sure your papers are in order, and book a flight. ImmediatelyWinkCoolTongue


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 4:18pm

Post #22 of 37 (250 views)
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LOL Lurker that is what I fear for myself if I go to NZ [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
"Probably a permanent holiday: I don't expect I shall return. In fact, I don't mean to, and I have made all arrangements."Heart AngelicTongueEvil


And I am going to have Gypsy Vanner ponies and sheeps, and live in a place like Beorn's.HeartHeartHeartHeartHeart


Avandel
Valinor


Aug 3 2014, 4:26pm

Post #23 of 37 (243 views)
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good editing would be refreshing [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Time-Life were also meticulous about checking the text for both factual and grammatical accuracy.

As we all know by the online article hashing, for instance, the online "article" that said LOL that Thranduil would "head a fleet".FrownShockedSly

And I love hearing about the book industry! I used to know an older man who would create the illustrations for nature and science books - utterly amazing - and he just used pencils, often.
No PSing.Unsure




KW
The Shire

Aug 3 2014, 5:39pm

Post #24 of 37 (230 views)
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I was curious to check out these books so I looked them up on Ebay [In reply to] Can't Post

They have a bunch of sets as well as auctions for the individual dragon volume (with description and interior images). Look interesting.

I like browsing the book section at a local thrift shop exactly because it'll often turn up books that I otherwise would never have come across. I recently picked up a nice deluxe hardcover volume from the National Geographic Society "Story of Man" on the Middle Ages full of photos and a big fold out reproduction of the Bayeux Tapestry. I regret not buying the other two volumes that were there. I also nabbed a Society of Illustrators coffee table book for only a few dollars.


Elarie
Gondor

Aug 3 2014, 10:21pm

Post #25 of 37 (193 views)
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I agree, this cast and their characters are phenomenal [In reply to] Can't Post

"And I have never felt more interest, affection, well... love for a film's characters in my life ever. "
__________________

Real movie magic happened with this cast and the characters that were created and I never get tired of spending time with them. And the fact that there are so many of them, and every single one is absolutely spot on is just amazing. Every once in a while a movie or a TV show puts together the perfect ensemble of cast and characters, but I can't think of any besides the Hobbit that has managed it with so many characters at once and so perfectly.


And once again the world has not arranged itself just for me.

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