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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Jul 30 2014, 8:10am
Post #1 of 62
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I cut my own version of the Hobbit to test a theory...and I was right!
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Very easy edit. Nothing major, but then I edit professionally. To put it simply, I hate the character of Azog with a passion and feel that he is ruining the film. I tend to enjoy the film and then suddenly Azog shows up and I have to endure his scenes with grit teeth, before I can go back to enjoying the movie. So...
I cut Azog out! I'm slightly alarmed a how easy it was to cut him out as well. It makes me think the filmmakers started concentrating on Azog's character in the later stages of development, when they had a lot of earlier chunks of the film in place. If only they had named Azog, "Bolg'" they would have saved themselves a lot of problems. Blame Philippa Boyens.
Now you might be thinking, "what about the burning tree, scene?" Sadly, it had to go as it was tainted by Bilbo's silly "I'm a hero now" moment and that awkward hug with Thorin. And like I said, "No Azog". That doesn't mean we can't see the character on a warg riding. But that storyline really overshadowed "An Unexpected Journey" in a negative way. Instead, as neatly as possible I cut from Bilbo appearing before the dwarves and giving his speech, to the whole Beorn subplot.
Realizing what a good idea this was, made me do a bit more snipping. I also slightly snipped the prologue. Bye, bye unnecessary Frodo appearance. See ya later, dwarf song about breaking Bilbo's dishes. Farewell, Radagast taking care of a sick bunny. Have a nice trip, meeting of the White Council.
To pad the film and ensure I get my proper Tolkien experience, I plundered DOS. I took the opening scene with Thorin and Gandalf in Bree and put it directly after the prologue, and right before Gandalf met Bilbo in The Shire. I inserted the EE scene of Bilbo in the market.
Let me say, that one minute scene of Bilbo in the market is perhaps the most important scene Peter Jackson cut out of the theatrical film. It's ironic that in a film telling us how the little things are often the most important, Mr. Jackson cut the scene showing us most how Bilbo loved the little things in life. In this scene, he is simply being a hobbit. We get to see him in his natural habitat, and thus understand that he's a fish out of water among these adventurous, hardy dwarves.
It's a nice parallel to the beginning of the Fellowship or the Ring, and it gives us a chance to actually get to know Bilbo. You can find this scene on the EE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6kiUgJxK9o
The resulting edit simply looked and felt like the Hobbit, instead of a vastly inferior Lord of the Rings. By not being distracted by winks to Mr. Jackson's earlier trilogy, I was able to simply watch and enjoy this film on its own merits.
With that said, I am eagerly anticipating "The Battle of Five Armies" formerly titled "There And Back Again".
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Jul 30 2014, 8:23am
Post #3 of 62
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This is what I've said all along...
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(and having seen a fan-edit of AUJ, as well)...there is a great 2-movie version of TH within the trilogy! 
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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DaoinSidhe
The Shire
Jul 30 2014, 8:39am
Post #4 of 62
(1469 views)
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Whie watching the AUJ EE yesterday I caught myself thinking that PJ introduced Azog much too early.
We hear Thorin telling the Goblin King that Azog is dead, but at this point we already know he is alive.
I would have preferred to have him appear at the trees for the first time, that would have made much more of an impact.
All those "Orc reports to Azog" scenes really are entirely pointless and add nothing to the film.
Also, rewatching the burning trees scene, it seemed as though they had filmed large parts of it with just the wargs, and then added Azog and the fight as an afterthought...
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Shagrat
Gondor
Jul 30 2014, 8:41am
Post #5 of 62
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What, in that you pleased yourself? There's no right or wrong in whatever it was you were trying to achieve.
(This post was edited by Shagrat on Jul 30 2014, 8:44am)
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greenbalrog
Bree
Jul 30 2014, 8:42am
Post #6 of 62
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Example of how people are different and how that's just fine
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Have a nice trip, meeting of the White Council. The White Council scene (plus the Galadriel-Gandalf scene) is easily my favorite scene of AUJ.
I took the time to reply to you just to illustrate how we can be so different in the so little details, and how that is just fine. I can't say I don't agree with you in some of your editing choices. I too don't enjoy the Azog scenes that much.
So, you did a personal cut to test a theory of yours, and you enjoyed it, and that proved that you were right about something about yourself. But, that doesn't mean that it's right, like, right for everybody! There's no such thing :)
There are millions of different possible cuts to prove a million different theories. Have fun! :)
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Arannir
Valinor
Jul 30 2014, 8:47am
Post #7 of 62
(1378 views)
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Very well said :)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 30 2014, 8:48am
Post #8 of 62
(1514 views)
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Frankly, I'll take Peter Jackson's judgement over yours any day...
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'Out of the Frying Pan' is an amazing scene, and you cut out the eagles? Really? You cut out one of the most beautiful scenes and pieces of music so far - and you reckon you've improved the film????
If you're happy with 'your' version, then good for you, but you haven't proved anything. And I hope that sometimes, when the trilogy is complete, you'll be open-minded enough to re-watch the whole sequence of films as the director intended them to be, and at least try to embrace his vision and understand what he was trying to do. I believe every artist deserves that much respect.
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Jul 30 2014, 8:53am
Post #9 of 62
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- I liked the Azog scenes, especially when it led to Bilbo's acceptance by his companions. The ending of AUJ:EE is one of my favourite parts of the movie. Wait, did you seriously cut out the Eagles?
Instead, as neatly as possible I cut from Bilbo appearing before the dwarves and giving his speech, to the whole Beorn subplot.
Realizing what a good idea this was, made me do a bit more snipping. I also slightly snipped the prologue. Bye, bye unnecessary Frodo appearance. See ya later, dwarf song about breaking Bilbo's dishes. Farewell, Radagast taking care of a sick bunny. Have a nice trip, meeting of the White Council.
And the Dwarf song? And the White Council?
No offense, I'm kind of glad it's someone else making the Hobbit movies. I liked those scenes.
___________________________________________________
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Jul 30 2014, 9:05am)
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emre43
Rohan
Jul 30 2014, 9:00am
Post #10 of 62
(1385 views)
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I agree with every word
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Jul 30 2014, 9:48am
Post #11 of 62
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I don't mean the "Misty Mountain" song. That song was wonderful. I was referring to the "That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates" song. I simply found it jarring to the previously established tone and out of place. I don't hate the White Council scene, but I find it distracting from the plot. It simply serves to set up something the audience has already seen.
The challenge that I'm saying "I was right" about was that the film improves by not having the Azog subplot having over it. I wish they'd simply save the Azogs and Bolgs for the final battles, rather then having them pop up ever five seconds.
Lurtz the Uruk-Hai was an excellent villain who served his purpose in Fellowship of the Ring, but he was only in a few scenes. Orcs should be briefly seen, chopped into bits and then never heard from again. At least in my opinion.
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Jul 30 2014, 9:57am
Post #12 of 62
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I don't hate AUJ, far from it. I've been to midnight screenings for both AUJ and DOS. I'm still tinkering with this edit until the last movie comes out. Partly, because I'm curious if a single coherent three hour movie could be made out of the material shot.
"Out of the Frying Pan" rehashed three different scores from LOTR in that scene. When I heard the Nazgul theme as Thorin confronted Azog I groaned. I want the film to stand on it's own, not constantly try to remind us of Lord of the Rings. Which is why the experimental edit. This is just for fun.
If I include "Out of the Frying Pan" I have to include Thorin and Bilbo on that mountaintop awkwardly hugging as Thorin says how wrong he was. I believe that itself was a big mistake, because Thorin shouldn't be thinking that Bilbo is useful until he saves the dwarves twice in Mirkwood. I feel like that hug scene cuts short Bilbo and Thorin's character arc.
Still tinkering though...
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Jul 30 2014, 10:10am
Post #13 of 62
(1284 views)
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"That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates" .
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I was referring to the "That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates" song.
Back when I was a kid, that was the Dwarf song!
I simply found it jarring to the previously established tone and out of place.
Well, I suppose if it gets to you it can be annoying. Personally I tend to like these additional scenes but then as you've said it's a matter of opinion.
I think with Azog, they're trying to avoid the 'big villain at the last minute' effect just like they're trying to avoid a 'new hero at the last second' with Bard.
___________________________________________________
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Jul 30 2014, 10:15am
Post #14 of 62
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When I heard the Nazgul theme as Thorin confronted Azog I groaned.
I wonder if it hints at something about Azog.
___________________________________________________
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
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Sildarion~Valenar
Bree
Jul 30 2014, 10:18am
Post #15 of 62
(1312 views)
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"Out of Frying pan" and the Thorin -hug are ...
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... the worst scenes in AUJ, with very poor direction, music and scripting. As much as I love the eagles, those two spoil the entire movie in every way; visually, thematically or just with cheap-dialogues.
So I think you did good to cut them out - it also makes Bilbo's spider-killing stand out more.
I dislike Azog in all the scenes except the Balin-narrated prologue. So that's a plus too.
The Frodo-appearence was completely pointless and not at all in continuity with FotR. So that's good too.
I would not have cut the White Council though, as it is important to show where Gandalf went just outside Mirkwood.
I would not cut the dwarves-song as well, as it makes the fact stand out that our dwarves are not big warriors but regular
folks.
Have you cut the Rock-giants? That was utterly pointless as well. So was the entire Kili meets Tauriel thingy (the chat in the cellar was good though)
And there has to be the inclusion of the Rivendell scenes involving Bilbo.
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Jul 30 2014, 10:36am
Post #16 of 62
(1240 views)
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I did not cut the Rock giants. I love that scene. IMHO it's big, thrilling, epic and distinctly a moment from the Hobbit. There's nothing similar to it in "Lord of the Rings".
I actually do like "The White Council" but I feel it serves more to set up "Lord of the Rings" then anything else. Also, Galadriel's communication with Gandalf before the Mirkwood forest is also sufficient enough to justify Gandalf's excursions.
When I cut DOS, alarmingly it whittles down instantly. Cutting out the Tauriel subplot, effectively snips the dwarves time in the Lakewood dungeon in half. I would however consider keeping the chat in the cellar. That music was lovely and NEW.
What I did for the introduction of the elves, was simply go from Legolas intro to a wider shot of the elves taking away the dwarves to Mirkwood.
Eventually, I'd like to whittle down the dwarves time in Laketown, as well as tweak Bilbo's scene with Smaug, so that there's no silly dwarf chase. That just made Smaug look incompetent.
(This post was edited by CaptainObvious on Jul 30 2014, 10:39am)
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DaoinSidhe
The Shire
Jul 30 2014, 10:42am
Post #17 of 62
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"Out of the frying pan" is the only AUJ scene with Azog I really like, and the whole eagles sequence and the hug are some of my favorite parts of the film. Especially the hug.
And the stone giants are just such a well made sequence it would hurt me to cut them out.
I would, however, massively shorten the Goblin Town escape.
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Jul 30 2014, 10:43am
Post #18 of 62
(1210 views)
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Any chance you'd try 'whittling down' the Transformers movies?
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I'd like my kids to be able to watch them without fast-forwarding every two minutes.
___________________________________________________
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Jul 30 2014, 10:46am
Post #19 of 62
(1214 views)
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I would have tolerated the hug better if Thorin had affectionately bashed his head against Bilbo's like Balin and Dwalin did at the beginning of the film. And if that loving headbutt had knocked Bilbo off his feet. That would be more in character, and thus make sense to me.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 30 2014, 10:49am
Post #20 of 62
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Fair enough, have your fun....
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You're not hurting anyone or doing anything different from what a thousand youtube users do every day. If it amuses you, go ahead.
But understand that the original work isn't yours and never will be. It belongs to the people who've spent years of their lives creating it. You're not proving anything - or improving anything - just copying and pasting bits of someone else's hard work.
Sorry, it was the tone of your original post that really grated: 'I hate...' 'I was right'... 'this was tainted'... 'that had to go'... 'that was unnecessary'... 'Realising what a good idea this was'... 'Bye bye'.... 'See ya later'... 'Have a nice trip'.... So pleased with yourself and so dismissive of the original creation. It's not about whether you like the film or hate it. It's about whether you respect the artistry that went into it.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jul 30 2014, 10:57am
Post #22 of 62
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I would not cut anything from AUJ (unlike DoS), apart from the burping and a few other gross moments (I'd also adjust Radagast's facial make-up). I'd also omit part of the chucking around of food in Bag End, and would certainly not include same in Rivendell (EE), along with the 'naked' Dwarves (what were they thinking of?).
Other than that, I love AUJ, and the last part of the film (Eagles, Thorin, Bilbo) is one of my favourites, along with Erebor. I do not have strong objections to Azog, and love his deep voice.
Shows you how individuals' tastes differ, doesn't it?
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CaptainObvious
Rivendell
Jul 30 2014, 10:59am
Post #24 of 62
(1225 views)
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If I didn't "respect the artistry," I wouldn't have paid to see it.
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