Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I cut my own version of the Hobbit to test a theory...and I was right!
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

CaptainObvious
Bree

Jul 30 2014, 8:10am

Post #1 of 62 (1856 views)
Shortcut
I cut my own version of the Hobbit to test a theory...and I was right! Can't Post

Very easy edit. Nothing major, but then I edit professionally. To put it simply, I hate the character of Azog with a passion and feel that he is ruining the film. I tend to enjoy the film and then suddenly Azog shows up and I have to endure his scenes with grit teeth, before I can go back to enjoying the movie. So...

I cut Azog out! I'm slightly alarmed a how easy it was to cut him out as well. It makes me think the filmmakers started concentrating on Azog's character in the later stages of development, when they had a lot of earlier chunks of the film in place. If only they had named Azog, "Bolg'" they would have saved themselves a lot of problems. Blame Philippa Boyens.

Now you might be thinking, "what about the burning tree, scene?" Sadly, it had to go as it was tainted by Bilbo's silly "I'm a hero now" moment and that awkward hug with Thorin. And like I said, "No Azog". That doesn't mean we can't see the character on a warg riding. But that storyline really overshadowed "An Unexpected Journey" in a negative way. Instead, as neatly as possible I cut from Bilbo appearing before the dwarves and giving his speech, to the whole Beorn subplot.

Realizing what a good idea this was, made me do a bit more snipping. I also slightly snipped the prologue. Bye, bye unnecessary Frodo appearance. See ya later, dwarf song about breaking Bilbo's dishes. Farewell, Radagast taking care of a sick bunny. Have a nice trip, meeting of the White Council.

To pad the film and ensure I get my proper Tolkien experience, I plundered DOS. I took the opening scene with Thorin and Gandalf in Bree and put it directly after the prologue, and right before Gandalf met Bilbo in The Shire. I inserted the EE scene of Bilbo in the market.

Let me say, that one minute scene of Bilbo in the market is perhaps the most important scene Peter Jackson cut out of the theatrical film. It's ironic that in a film telling us how the little things are often the most important, Mr. Jackson cut the scene showing us most how Bilbo loved the little things in life. In this scene, he is simply being a hobbit. We get to see him in his natural habitat, and thus understand that he's a fish out of water among these adventurous, hardy dwarves.
It's a nice parallel to the beginning of the Fellowship or the Ring, and it gives us a chance to actually get to know Bilbo. You can find this scene on the EE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6kiUgJxK9o


The resulting edit simply looked and felt like the Hobbit, instead of a vastly inferior Lord of the Rings. By not being distracted by winks to Mr. Jackson's earlier trilogy, I was able to simply watch and enjoy this film on its own merits.

With that said, I am eagerly anticipating "The Battle of Five Armies" formerly titled "There And Back Again".


Arannir
Valinor


Jul 30 2014, 8:15am

Post #2 of 62 (1035 views)
Shortcut
Huh? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Blame Philippa Boyens.


Crazy

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jul 30 2014, 8:23am

Post #3 of 62 (1005 views)
Shortcut
This is what I've said all along... [In reply to] Can't Post

(and having seen a fan-edit of AUJ, as well)...there is a great 2-movie version of TH within the trilogy! Smile


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


DaoinSidhe
The Shire

Jul 30 2014, 8:39am

Post #4 of 62 (943 views)
Shortcut
Interesting.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Whie watching the AUJ EE yesterday I caught myself thinking that PJ introduced Azog much too early.

We hear Thorin telling the Goblin King that Azog is dead, but at this point we already know he is alive.
I would have preferred to have him appear at the trees for the first time, that would have made much more of an impact.

All those "Orc reports to Azog" scenes really are entirely pointless and add nothing to the film.
Also, rewatching the burning trees scene, it seemed as though they had filmed large parts of it with just the wargs, and then added Azog and the fight as an afterthought...


Shagrat
Gondor

Jul 30 2014, 8:41am

Post #5 of 62 (915 views)
Shortcut
You were right? [In reply to] Can't Post

What, in that you pleased yourself? There's no right or wrong in whatever it was you were trying to achieve.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Jul 30 2014, 8:44am)


greenbalrog
Bree

Jul 30 2014, 8:42am

Post #6 of 62 (908 views)
Shortcut
Example of how people are different and how that's just fine [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Have a nice trip, meeting of the White Council.

The White Council scene (plus the Galadriel-Gandalf scene) is easily my favorite scene of AUJ.

I took the time to reply to you just to illustrate how we can be so different in the so little details, and how that is just fine. I can't say I don't agree with you in some of your editing choices. I too don't enjoy the Azog scenes that much.

So, you did a personal cut to test a theory of yours, and you enjoyed it, and that proved that you were right about something about yourself. But, that doesn't mean that it's right, like, right for everybody! There's no such thing :)

There are millions of different possible cuts to prove a million different theories. Have fun! :)


Arannir
Valinor


Jul 30 2014, 8:47am

Post #7 of 62 (852 views)
Shortcut
Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

Very well said :)

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 30 2014, 8:48am

Post #8 of 62 (988 views)
Shortcut
Frankly, I'll take Peter Jackson's judgement over yours any day... [In reply to] Can't Post

'Out of the Frying Pan' is an amazing scene, and you cut out the eagles? Really? You cut out one of the most beautiful scenes and pieces of music so far - and you reckon you've improved the film????

If you're happy with 'your' version, then good for you, but you haven't proved anything. And I hope that sometimes, when the trilogy is complete, you'll be open-minded enough to re-watch the whole sequence of films as the director intended them to be, and at least try to embrace his vision and understand what he was trying to do. I believe every artist deserves that much respect.


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 30 2014, 8:53am

Post #9 of 62 (846 views)
Shortcut
I don't know - [In reply to] Can't Post

 - I liked the Azog scenes, especially when it led to Bilbo's acceptance by his companions. The ending of AUJ:EE is one of my favourite parts of the movie. Wait, did you seriously cut out the Eagles?


Quote
Instead, as neatly as possible I cut from Bilbo appearing before the dwarves and giving his speech, to the whole Beorn subplot.

Realizing what a good idea this was, made me do a bit more snipping. I also slightly snipped the prologue. Bye, bye unnecessary Frodo appearance. See ya later, dwarf song about breaking Bilbo's dishes. Farewell, Radagast taking care of a sick bunny. Have a nice trip, meeting of the White Council.


And the Dwarf song? And the White Council?

No offense, I'm kind of glad it's someone else making the Hobbit movies. I liked those scenes.

___________________________________________________


From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Jul 30 2014, 9:05am)


emre43
Lorien

Jul 30 2014, 9:00am

Post #10 of 62 (859 views)
Shortcut
Well said Dormouse! [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with every word Smile


CaptainObvious
Bree

Jul 30 2014, 9:48am

Post #11 of 62 (784 views)
Shortcut
Still tinkering... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't mean the "Misty Mountain" song. That song was wonderful. I was referring to the "That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates" song. I simply found it jarring to the previously established tone and out of place. I don't hate the White Council scene, but I find it distracting from the plot. It simply serves to set up something the audience has already seen.

The challenge that I'm saying "I was right" about was that the film improves by not having the Azog subplot having over it. I wish they'd simply save the Azogs and Bolgs for the final battles, rather then having them pop up ever five seconds.

Lurtz the Uruk-Hai was an excellent villain who served his purpose in Fellowship of the Ring, but he was only in a few scenes. Orcs should be briefly seen, chopped into bits and then never heard from again. At least in my opinion.


CaptainObvious
Bree

Jul 30 2014, 9:57am

Post #12 of 62 (848 views)
Shortcut
Dormouse [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't hate AUJ, far from it. I've been to midnight screenings for both AUJ and DOS. I'm still tinkering with this edit until the last movie comes out. Partly, because I'm curious if a single coherent three hour movie could be made out of the material shot.

"Out of the Frying Pan" rehashed three different scores from LOTR in that scene. When I heard the Nazgul theme as Thorin confronted Azog I groaned. I want the film to stand on it's own, not constantly try to remind us of Lord of the Rings. Which is why the experimental edit. This is just for fun.

If I include "Out of the Frying Pan" I have to include Thorin and Bilbo on that mountaintop awkwardly hugging as Thorin says how wrong he was. I believe that itself was a big mistake, because Thorin shouldn't be thinking that Bilbo is useful until he saves the dwarves twice in Mirkwood. I feel like that hug scene cuts short Bilbo and Thorin's character arc.

Still tinkering though...


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 30 2014, 10:10am

Post #13 of 62 (758 views)
Shortcut
"That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates" . [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I was referring to the "That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates" song.


Back when I was a kid, that was the Dwarf song!


Quote
I simply found it jarring to the previously established tone and out of place.


Well, I suppose if it gets to you it can be annoying. Personally I tend to like these additional scenes but then as you've said it's a matter of opinion.


I think with Azog, they're trying to avoid the 'big villain at the last minute' effect just like they're trying to avoid a 'new hero at the last second' with Bard.

___________________________________________________


From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 30 2014, 10:15am

Post #14 of 62 (776 views)
Shortcut
About the Nazgul theme - [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
When I heard the Nazgul theme as Thorin confronted Azog I groaned.



I wonder if it hints at something about Azog.

___________________________________________________


From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



Sildarion~Valenar
Bree


Jul 30 2014, 10:18am

Post #15 of 62 (786 views)
Shortcut
"Out of Frying pan" and the Thorin -hug are ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... the worst scenes in AUJ, with very poor direction, music and scripting. As much as I love the eagles, those two spoil the entire movie in every way; visually, thematically or just with cheap-dialogues.
So I think you did good to cut them out - it also makes Bilbo's spider-killing stand out more.
I dislike Azog in all the scenes except the Balin-narrated prologue. So that's a plus too.
The Frodo-appearence was completely pointless and not at all in continuity with FotR. So that's good too.

I would not have cut the White Council though, as it is important to show where Gandalf went just outside Mirkwood.
I would not cut the dwarves-song as well, as it makes the fact stand out that our dwarves are not big warriors but regular
folks.

Have you cut the Rock-giants? That was utterly pointless as well. So was the entire Kili meets Tauriel thingy (the chat in the cellar was good though)
And there has to be the inclusion of the Rivendell scenes involving Bilbo.



CaptainObvious
Bree

Jul 30 2014, 10:36am

Post #16 of 62 (714 views)
Shortcut
Thanks Sildarion~Valenar [In reply to] Can't Post

I did not cut the Rock giants. I love that scene. IMHO it's big, thrilling, epic and distinctly a moment from the Hobbit. There's nothing similar to it in "Lord of the Rings".

I actually do like "The White Council" but I feel it serves more to set up "Lord of the Rings" then anything else. Also, Galadriel's communication with Gandalf before the Mirkwood forest is also sufficient enough to justify Gandalf's excursions.


When I cut DOS, alarmingly it whittles down instantly. Cutting out the Tauriel subplot, effectively snips the dwarves time in the Lakewood dungeon in half. I would however consider keeping the chat in the cellar. That music was lovely and NEW.

What I did for the introduction of the elves, was simply go from Legolas intro to a wider shot of the elves taking away the dwarves to Mirkwood.

Eventually, I'd like to whittle down the dwarves time in Laketown, as well as tweak Bilbo's scene with Smaug, so that there's no silly dwarf chase. That just made Smaug look incompetent.


(This post was edited by CaptainObvious on Jul 30 2014, 10:39am)


DaoinSidhe
The Shire

Jul 30 2014, 10:42am

Post #17 of 62 (705 views)
Shortcut
Funny how tastes differ [In reply to] Can't Post

"Out of the frying pan" is the only AUJ scene with Azog I really like, and the whole eagles sequence and the hug are some of my favorite parts of the film. Especially the hug.
And the stone giants are just such a well made sequence it would hurt me to cut them out.
I would, however, massively shorten the Goblin Town escape.


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 30 2014, 10:43am

Post #18 of 62 (684 views)
Shortcut
Any chance you'd try 'whittling down' the Transformers movies? [In reply to] Can't Post

 I'd like my kids to be able to watch them without fast-forwarding every two minutes. Smile

___________________________________________________


From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



CaptainObvious
Bree

Jul 30 2014, 10:46am

Post #19 of 62 (688 views)
Shortcut
Hugs... [In reply to] Can't Post

I would have tolerated the hug better if Thorin had affectionately bashed his head against Bilbo's like Balin and Dwalin did at the beginning of the film. And if that loving headbutt had knocked Bilbo off his feet. That would be more in character, and thus make sense to me.


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 30 2014, 10:49am

Post #20 of 62 (748 views)
Shortcut
Fair enough, have your fun.... [In reply to] Can't Post

You're not hurting anyone or doing anything different from what a thousand youtube users do every day. If it amuses you, go ahead.

But understand that the original work isn't yours and never will be. It belongs to the people who've spent years of their lives creating it. You're not proving anything - or improving anything - just copying and pasting bits of someone else's hard work.

Sorry, it was the tone of your original post that really grated: 'I hate...' 'I was right'... 'this was tainted'... 'that had to go'... 'that was unnecessary'... 'Realising what a good idea this was'... 'Bye bye'.... 'See ya later'... 'Have a nice trip'.... So pleased with yourself and so dismissive of the original creation. It's not about whether you like the film or hate it. It's about whether you respect the artistry that went into it.


DaoinSidhe
The Shire

Jul 30 2014, 10:50am

Post #21 of 62 (691 views)
Shortcut
Agreed, 100 %. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jul 30 2014, 10:57am

Post #22 of 62 (680 views)
Shortcut
Personally [In reply to] Can't Post

I would not cut anything from AUJ (unlike DoS), apart from the burping and a few other gross moments (I'd also adjust Radagast's facial make-up). I'd also omit part of the chucking around of food in Bag End, and would certainly not include same in Rivendell (EE), along with the 'naked' Dwarves (what were they thinking of?).

Other than that, I love AUJ, and the last part of the film (Eagles, Thorin, Bilbo) is one of my favourites, along with Erebor. I do not have strong objections to Azog, and love his deep voice.

Shows you how individuals' tastes differ, doesn't it?


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 30 2014, 10:59am

Post #23 of 62 (675 views)
Shortcut
No one is to blame. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Blame Philippa Boyens.


There's not much point pinning it down on one single person. Opinions will be opinions, and it appears that you (like many) disagree with the multiple choices that were made from multiple people and departments. No one person cannot be and should not be blamed for a failure or something one disagrees with. If the production team had done exactly what one wants, then Peter Jackson could not have had all the praise showered on him. Like ways, if only one person is to be blamed, why is it called a production team then? They're not creating the film as individuals.

Could one single person be responsible for a successful film/scene/character/story? No. So, the opposite is also true, one single person cannot be fully responsible for the failure. Unless, of course, it was a purposeful attempt at sabotage.

I'm glad you enjoyed your edit of the movie. I suspect my edit of the movie wouldn't be universally enjoyed.



CaptainObvious
Bree

Jul 30 2014, 10:59am

Post #24 of 62 (699 views)
Shortcut
dormouse [In reply to] Can't Post

If I didn't "respect the artistry," I wouldn't have paid to see it.


Sildarion~Valenar
Bree


Jul 30 2014, 11:04am

Post #25 of 62 (644 views)
Shortcut
But these films are not Transformers, are they? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'd like my kids to be able to watch them without fast-forwarding every two minutes. Smile


People see Transformers for action, so why would someone cutdown the action.

TH is not an action film though. Or should not be.



(This post was edited by Sildarion~Valenar on Jul 30 2014, 11:04am)

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.