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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Which dwarf will support Thorin?

Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Jul 30 2014, 4:08am

Post #1 of 13 (518 views)
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Which dwarf will support Thorin? Can't Post

We know its not going to be Kili but there should be at least one loyal Dwarf to Thorin.Maybe Fili or Dwalin. thoughts?

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



Elutherian
Rohan


Jul 30 2014, 4:13am

Post #2 of 13 (340 views)
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Dwalin for sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I doubt any of the others will stay as loyal once s**t hits the fan.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Jul 30 2014, 4:17am

Post #3 of 13 (329 views)
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Hang on isnt he on the chariot. [In reply to] Can't Post

With the other mutineers?

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Jul 30 2014, 4:17am)


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Jul 30 2014, 4:18am

Post #4 of 13 (383 views)
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Dwalin would be my guess [In reply to] Can't Post

He's just as distrustful as Thorin, and unwaveringly loyal. He's also the type to act first and speak....well, never Tongue

Fili, on the other hand, would likely side with his brother, being both that he was also in Laketown during the dragon's attack, and because he challenged Thorin and stayed behind with Kili in Laketown. Not only that, but Bard took them in when Kili was dying (as they now know), and Tauriel healed him. So he owes a debt both to humans and elves, as does Kili. And the two of them are FAR more open minded about other races than Dwalin ever was (evidenced by their quickly befriending Bilbo). And both of them were opposed to his decisions, both with Bilbo and the Laketown refugees, in the book as well.

Gloin may also be another supporter of Thorin, both by kinship (he's Thorin's 3rd cousin, if I recall correctly- I'd have to go to the family tree again to know for sure, but he is 9th in line for the throne of Erebor).

For the parts of the whole company, my guess would be:

Fili- opposed
Kili- opposed
Balin- opposed
Dwalin- agreed
Gloin- agreed
Oin- could go either way, especially as he's a healer (I bet he wouldn't be looking forward to being up 24/7 for a while after the battle, with all the injured dwarves that would undoubtedly clog up the healing tents). Also he was in Laketown, and will likely, as is the case with the other dwarves who stayed behind, be more sympathetic to their plight.
Ori- possibly opposed, as he seems to be more of a scholarly type, rather than a warrior. But it's possible he could still agree.
Dori- agreed
Nori- agreed (he stands to lose part of his share, as do they all, if Bard's demands are met, and since he has a thieving background I imagine money is important to him).
Bofur- opposed (being in Laketown, doesn't like confrontation- however he did help bury the gold in the troll cave so it's also possible that he MAY agree, but I doubt it)
Bombur- opposed (I believe he was also opposed in the book).
Bifur- who can say? We can't really understand him anyway Crazy



(This post was edited by Cirashala on Jul 30 2014, 4:18am)


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Jul 30 2014, 4:25am

Post #5 of 13 (319 views)
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Unless you have some info we don't [In reply to] Can't Post

there's no telling whether those in the chariot were mutineers or not Wink

My guess is that they're heading to Raven hill to either send word to Dain via Roac (but given lack of talking animals maybe not), or sending word using a raven as a carrier pigeon. Otherwise, why else would they have left Raven Hill in the movie? And why would the chariot be racing towards it?

We see Raven Hill three times during the trailer- in front of the chariot as (I presume) it's exiting Erebor via the frozen River Running, and you can see Raven Hill in the background, when Kili is near it, and when Bolg is walking with it behind him.

Plus ravens have been mentioned several times in the films already- Oin at Bag End, Oin again when he mistakes the thrush for a raven. There's a raven on the family tree tapestry, and Thror's crown was the motif of a Raven. Not to mention a raven being the emblem on Erebor's flags in the AUJ prologue (IIRC), and the fact that Raven Hill is still very present in the movie and shown more than once.

This gives me hope that the ravens are still in Cool I doubt they were committing mutiny against Thorin Wink



Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Jul 30 2014, 4:27am

Post #6 of 13 (301 views)
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Brilliant post/s as usual Cirashala. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was hoping Fili would come to terms, with his destiny as future king and maybe butt heads with Kili which would ultimately cause each others demise from irrational thinking.It would have been more powerful Imo.Also,Maybe once Fili sees the treasure his dragon sickness will kick in as well.In this case Kili is frodo and Fili is Samwise its a good parallel.

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Jul 30 2014, 4:32am)


Rickster
Rohan

Jul 30 2014, 5:40am

Post #7 of 13 (257 views)
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I am no Dwarf [In reply to] Can't Post

But i will support him to the end


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 30 2014, 8:36am

Post #8 of 13 (214 views)
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So - how do 'we' know Kili won't support Thorin? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 30 2014, 8:37am

Post #9 of 13 (201 views)
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Mutineers? Have I missed something.... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Jul 30 2014, 10:02am

Post #10 of 13 (194 views)
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Maybe reluctantly lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Otherwise Thorin will backhand him back to the blue mountains.

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Jul 30 2014, 12:24pm

Post #11 of 13 (175 views)
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Fili and Kili have already plenty of reasons [In reply to] Can't Post

to oppose Thorin's behaviour: the quest which is more important than anything else, and Fili stood up against his uncle and decided to stay behind.

I think this is a way of explaining what is simply implied in the book, that is the fact that the young Dwarves did not agree with Thorin, re his actions in Erebor.
In the book it's them and Bombur, yes.

Here in the film the relationships are far more complex so we will probably have some dialogues with "factions" and changes of heart: I guess that Dori and Nori and Gloin can belong to the group of loyals.

As far as Dwalin is concerned, he may probably change his mind thanks to his brother's influence.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 30 2014, 3:58pm

Post #12 of 13 (131 views)
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Dwalin, for one. [In reply to] Can't Post

The company should be a bit divided over Thorin's actions and attitude as in the book:


Quote
Then Bilbo longed to escape from the dark fortress and to go down and join in the mirth and feasting by the fires. Some of the younger dwarves were moved in their hearts too, and they muttered that they wished things had fallen out otherwise and that they might welcome such folk as friends; but Thorin scowled.



And this:


Quote

With that the messengers departed swifly, and the dwarves were left to consider their case. So grim had Thorin become, that even if they had wished, the others would not have dared to find fault with him; but indeed most of them seemed to share his mind -- except perhaps old fat Bombur and Fili and Kili.


'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Kilidoescartwheels
Gondor

Jul 30 2014, 10:23pm

Post #13 of 13 (73 views)
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Difference between agreeing & following [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a military situation, and they are dwarves that are (for the most part) blood relations. So I think it's likely that Fili, Kili & Bofur will "disagree" with Thorin, but follow him anyway. "Loyalty, honor, a willing heart," etc.

 
 

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