|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 3:12pm
Post #1 of 35
(1747 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Black Arrow - what a monster!
|
Can't Post
|
|
A while back, we were discussing the Black Arrow (film version) and the possibility of Bard firing it from his longbow (if, say, Smaug destroyed the windlance). Well, Weta's book The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug: Chronicles: Cloaks & Daggers is now released and it has most of the specifications for the Black Arrow.
The head of the quarrel is about forty centimeters (almost sixteen inches) long and is supposed to be steel. The shaft is wood (the prop is aluminium with a resin head) and seems to be about one inch thick. The over all length is almost two meters (about six feet). The weight is not given; however, even the finished "hero" prop is "incredibly heavy."
This should rule out Bard firing the Black Arrow like a normal arrow. The idea might sound good as mythology (as in a feat that Odysseus or Hercules might peform), but I don't think that it would work on film.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Name
Rohan
Jul 20 2014, 3:18pm
Post #2 of 35
(833 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It would look incredibly ridiculous
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Being shot from a regular bow.
I'm hoping for Bard to use a regular arrow after he fails with the windlance. It keeps to the lore, and looks impressive.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 3:24pm
Post #3 of 35
(783 views)
Shortcut
|
That was my original argument when I visualized the size of the Black Arrow in DoS. The Cloaks & Daggers book merely reinforces my opinion.
I'm hoping for Bard to use a regular arrow after he fails with the windlance. It keeps to the lore, and looks impressive.
Yes and no. It sticks to the lore by bringing Smaug down with a conventional bow; however, that means that Bard doesn't accomplish the feat using the Black Arrow. It might as well be with the windlance.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 20 2014, 3:35pm
Post #4 of 35
(735 views)
Shortcut
|
Thank you O-S... for your Research...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
From the Fleeting Glance?
...we got in the Film
(Thorin & Balin's look through
Bard's window)
IT appeared to be mounted on TOP
of the Master's Chambers...
so they can climb up... though
his Quarter's to get to the
Windlance...
Thus re-visiting his
EXPENSIVE
SET!
|
|
|
Taladamir
The Shire
Jul 20 2014, 3:38pm
Post #5 of 35
(736 views)
Shortcut
|
...rule out its use in a regular bow, but that seems to be where they might go. Perhaps a gigantic longbow at extremely short range, while the hero is plunging backwards over the edge of a skyscrape...oh wait, wrong movie
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 3:47pm
Post #7 of 35
(711 views)
Shortcut
|
And with no fletching to boot? No. The balance would be completely destroyed--remember how large is the quarrel's head. And the weight would still be ridiculously high.
Part of the problem is that both we and the movie crew keeps referring to the object as an arrow, leading to false expectations. It really isn't an arrow in the films but would be better described as a bolt or quarrel.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Azaghâl
Lorien
Jul 20 2014, 4:01pm
Post #9 of 35
(711 views)
Shortcut
|
But I still think he's gonna fire it of his longbow as he's supposed to. After all he said it himself in that interview from the live event. So I'm still gonna put my money on some super shot from bard the bowman 
*Baruk khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!*
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 4:14pm
Post #10 of 35
(752 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Well, Bard does have a very big...um...bow.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Alex Falkner, Weta Workshop Props Model Making Supervisor, wrote for the Cloaks & Daggers book:
Daniel Kelly created Bard's bow for us in two halves which we moulded, cast and then glued together and remoulded as one piece. The lovely thing about it was that it was completely functional, and at 2.2 metres tall is one of the biggest bows we have produced. It could shoot arrows a huge distance.
Firing the Black Arrow from Bard's longbow still stretches my willing suspension of disbelief to the breaking point, but your mileage may vary.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Aitieuriskon
Lorien
Jul 20 2014, 4:24pm
Post #11 of 35
(675 views)
Shortcut
|
The bow might be huge, but the length of an arrow isn't dictated by bow length.
The archer's draw length is what should dictate the length of the arrow (if too much of an arrow sticks out from the bow when fully drawn, that means it's too long and the arrow's flight will be compromised). Even if Bard had a stupendous 4-foot draw length, he still wouldn't be able to properly shoot that massive iron arrow.
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
|
|
|
Name
Rohan
Jul 20 2014, 4:51pm
Post #12 of 35
(644 views)
Shortcut
|
Plus the bow would need to have like a 300+ lbs draw weight to launch a bolt like that.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
|
|
|
Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 20 2014, 7:22pm
Post #14 of 35
(603 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Can anyone POST a ScreenCap of Girion shooting at Smaug
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
from the Prologue...
THAT might solve
this debate?
Bombyzz opinion is
Bard NEEDS to shoot him
with the Windlance to honor
His... Grandfather's... attempts.
Bringing back his Ancestor's Honor?
(Which seems to be a re-occurring... theme )
|
|
|
BlackFox
Half-elven
Jul 20 2014, 8:26pm
Post #15 of 35
(586 views)
Shortcut
|
Girion in action:
“Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” - Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 9:02pm
Post #16 of 35
(544 views)
Shortcut
|
...in DoS when we see Luke Evans grab the Black Arrow down from the rafters he handles it pretty easily, not like it is "incredibly heavy..." not to mention that Bain is able to run and hide it again without a problem. 
We are not talking about something that weighs 50 pounds (or even, say, 20 pounds). However, the windlance bolt is going to weigh many times more than a longbow arrow, which is fairly insignificant by comparison. A typical ballista bolt measured between 1.2 and 1.7 meters in length (shorter than the windlance quarrel) and weighed about 4 kilograms (almost 9 pounds). So, the Black Arrow might weigh as much as 10 pounds. If we assume a high degree of craftmanship and want to be conservative, it might be as little as 8 pounds.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 20 2014, 9:04pm)
|
|
|
Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 20 2014, 9:16pm
Post #17 of 35
(537 views)
Shortcut
|
|
May IT be? Maybe, Kinda Sorta..
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
IMPORTANT to Bard & Bain
That It..izz
"Light as a Feather"?
Isn't this a
FantasyFilm?
Bomby doesn't get all caught up
In "Weights&Measures"
...anyMore...
When it comes toooo
PJ & JRRT
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 9:39pm
Post #18 of 35
(511 views)
Shortcut
|
Even if we assume that the bolt weighs only half of what I estimate (Dwarven magic?), that is still more than the weight of an entire quiver of arrows (plus the quiver) or Bard's longbow. It is significant.
And, yes, Jackson is free to play just as fast and loose with this as he does with time and distance. I'm just looking at it more realistically.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 20 2014, 9:43pm)
|
|
|
Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 20 2014, 10:01pm
Post #19 of 35
(507 views)
Shortcut
|
|
May it be...? It has a Hollow Shaft?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
filled with Nasty, Evil,
Poison?
"Left-overs" from Kili's
Wound?
Could there be an
Apothecary...?
in LakeTown
An OINTMENT?.... that
Only
OIN.... might know about?
(A NEWish...Tangled, Conspiracy ..ONLY in Bombyzz Mind?)
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 10:05pm
Post #20 of 35
(508 views)
Shortcut
|
May it be...? It has a Hollow Shaft? filled with Nasty, Evil,
Poison?
Probably not; the shaft is made of wood. And the design of the head also makes it impossible that it could be hollow. Nice try though. You do think outside of the box!
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 20 2014, 10:06pm)
|
|
|
Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 20 2014, 10:12pm
Post #21 of 35
(489 views)
Shortcut
|
|
O-s...What BOX? Define "box" fur Bozo, please?//
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Jul 20 2014, 10:16pm
Post #22 of 35
(508 views)
Shortcut
|
We know from LE at the DoS Live Event that Bard will fire something larger than normal with his crossbow, because he demonstrated how he drew his bow "in reverse" to gain a larger draw...
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 10:20pm
Post #23 of 35
(487 views)
Shortcut
|
Outside-of-the-box as in a free-thinker. You don't stay within the lines. You don't limit yourself to conventional wisdom. Get it?
It was supposed to be a compliment.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 20 2014, 10:22pm
Post #24 of 35
(493 views)
Shortcut
|
We know from LE at the DoS Live Event that Bard will fire something larger than normal with his crossbow, because he demonstrated how he drew his bow "in reverse" to gain a larger draw...
You mean longbow. Yes, I've read that as well; that's what worries me a bit.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 20 2014, 10:27pm
Post #25 of 35
(486 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Bomb is Tryin' to THINK?.. in a Straight Line..
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
OIN.. has Some Job to do?
In Laketown,... TOO!
A HERO Moment..
He sprinkles some
OINTMENT..on the Shaft?
THAT Explodes on contact with
The "FIRE".... in Samug's
Black Heart??
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jul 20 2014, 10:33pm)
|
|
|
|
|
1
