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Ithilisa
Rivendell
Jul 14 2014, 8:32pm
Post #1 of 39
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When did Aragorn meet Gandalf?
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Hi. If there were any earlier posts on this I didn't find I apologize, but does anyone know when Aragorn first met Gandalf? Something I was reading in"Untangling Tolkien" yesterday made me wonder, but I don't know where to look for the answer.
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Jul 14 2014, 8:57pm
Post #2 of 39
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LOTR, Appendix B, "The Third Age"
“Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” - Henry David Thoreau
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Ithilisa
Rivendell
Jul 14 2014, 9:13pm
Post #3 of 39
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Thanks. Missed it the first time. I wish Tolkien had expanded on it a little; that would've been an interesting meeting.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jul 14 2014, 9:18pm
Post #4 of 39
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One of many things we all wish we knew more about!
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jul 14 2014, 11:48pm
Post #5 of 39
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Yes, Aragorn was born in 2931. He leaves Rivendell and begins his great learnings of the wild in 2951-2, at the age of 20. He meets Gandalf in 2956, about five years later at the age of about 25.
I too wish we knew more of their meeting and early relationship.
What super reading it would make.
Maybe someone will write a "factually" accurate tale of this someday? "The Tale of Aragorn and Gandalf the Grey".
Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
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Ithilisa
Rivendell
Jul 14 2014, 11:57pm
Post #6 of 39
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Thanks for doing the math. Wow, if he met Gandalf at 25 and he was over 80 during LOTR, there would be a number of great stories in there in addition to their meeting. I wish Christopher Tolkien would discover the story in a box somewhere.
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jul 15 2014, 5:24pm
Post #7 of 39
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The LotR timeline has always interested me. More if you’re interested:
Tale of Years states that the Istari came to Middle-earth c. 1000 Third Age. Therefore Gandalf was 1956 years old (as a mortal) when he met Aragorn. During the War of the Ring Aragorn was about 87 years old, and Gandalf was about 2018 years old.
Gandalf, Frodo, and Bilbo sail West Sept. 29, 3021. Gandalf was 2021 years old (as a mortal); Frodo was 53; and Bilbo was 131.
Sam sailed some 61 years later at the age of 99 (SR 1482). Last of the Ring Bearers.
Legolas and Gimli left soon after the death of Elessar, FO 120, the last of The Fellowhip. The King was 210 at his death. Gimli was 262 at his sailing with Legolas.
(The only conundrum is: How old was Gandalf when he first stepped foot on The Grey Havens? – 0 years of age as a mortal I guess?)
Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
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Olorin the Wise
Registered User
Jul 15 2014, 7:34pm
Post #8 of 39
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There is a fantastic cut-scene in the PC game 'The Lord of the Rings Online'
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In which you see the first meeting of Aragorn and Gandalf in 2956. Of course the details are heavily embellished, but it is rather well portrayed. Aragorn is on a journey to Lothlorien when he meets a strange traveller on the road, whom he initially dismisses as a foolish and nosy old man, slowly coming to the realisation that it is none other than the pilgrim Elrond told him so much about. It's rather reminiscent of the infamous meeting between Luke Skywalker and Yoda in 'The Empire Strikes Back'.
Although as I said most of the details are made up, it's still a fairly accurate representation given that the game designers aim is to be as true to the novels as possible. Unfortunately I can't say I remember the name of the quest or any of the dialogue within it.
(This post was edited by Olorin the Wise on Jul 15 2014, 7:35pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 15 2014, 7:34pm
Post #9 of 39
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Tale of Years states that the Istari came to Middle-earth c. 1000 Third Age. Therefore Gandalf was 1956 years old (as a mortal) when he met Aragorn. During the War of the Ring Aragorn was about 87 years old, and Gandalf was about 2018 years old.
Yep. A possible difference from the films: In the legendarium, Aragorn was 87 years old when he met Frodo in Bree. He turned 88 on March 1, 3019 (TA), the day that the Three Hunters encountered Gandalf the White and the four of them set out for Edoras. On film, Aragorn tells Eowyn that he is still 87. One wonders if he simply lost track of the date and didn't realize that his birthday had past.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 15 2014, 8:01pm
Post #10 of 39
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My question about that scenario is why would Aragorn be making for Lorien at that time? Another destination might have been better.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Olorin the Wise
Registered User
Jul 15 2014, 8:17pm
Post #11 of 39
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It does indeed seem a strange choice
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I had always imagined the meeting to occur somewhere a little more conventional, such as in Bree-Land or at least somewhere in the North. Also as far as I'm aware (though I may be wrong), Aragorn's earliest recorded venture to Lorien is in 2980 when he betroths himself to Arwen, some twenty-four years after his meeting with Gandalf (though of course it is possible that he may have ventured there before).
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 15 2014, 8:31pm
Post #12 of 39
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When did Arwen return to Lothlorien?
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I suppose that it's entirely possible that Aragorn visited Lothlorien for the first time before he reunited with Arwen in 2980. It would have had to have been before Arwen left Rivendell again to return to Lorien. In my imagination, though, Aragorn would have been on a more adventurous undertaking.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 15 2014, 8:34pm)
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jul 15 2014, 9:41pm
Post #13 of 39
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That's the films for ya... **grain of salt** //
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Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
(This post was edited by Bracegirdle on Jul 15 2014, 9:42pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 15 2014, 9:49pm
Post #14 of 39
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Well, Jackson already muddled the timeline when he made Sam, Merry & Pippin all roughly the same age as Frodo.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jul 15 2014, 9:59pm
Post #15 of 39
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He turned 88 on March 1, 3019 (TA), the day that the Three Hunters encountered Gandalf the White and the four of them set out for Edoras. That’s why I used the word “about” 87. I’ve always imagined The War of the Ring to have begun when Frodo left the Shire until the destruction of the Ring; but we could also consider it not ended until The Scouring of the Shire and the “death” of Saruman.
So, right; Aragorn was both 87 and 88 during the WOR.
Cheers
Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 15 2014, 10:13pm
Post #16 of 39
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One other descrepency by Jackson
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This irritated me because it was so utterly needless: In FotR-EE, Jackson altered the year of Bilbo's eleventy-first birthday party to T.A. 3000 instead of 3001. This also theoretically changes the year of the Quest of Erebor (in the three The Hobbit movies) from 2941 to 2940. This is all very bothersome if a person attempts to create a coherent timeline for all six films. This (coupled with the age discrepancy for the Hobbits) is how I end up getting an approximate age of 25 for Aragorn at the time of Thorin's quest.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jul 15 2014, 10:32pm
Post #17 of 39
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This (coupled with the age discrepancy for the Hobbits) is how I end up getting an approximate age of 25 for Aragorn at the time of Thorin's quest.
Yeah, but this blows the whole “Tale of Years”:
Thorin’s Quest was in 2941. Aragorn was born in 2931, and he would have been 10 yrs. old.
To create a timeline from the “source” can be tricksy. To create it from the films- fu-get-about-it….
Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 15 2014, 10:36pm
Post #18 of 39
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I just sent you a PM on this very subject. The whole thing is based on the idea that at least one year passes after Bilbo leaves the Shire before Frodo sets off for Rivendell--but not much more than that, since Sam, Merry and Pippin don't have a Ring to keep them young for another 17 years.
Jackson, Boyans and Walsh discuss this in the FotR-EE commentaries and estimate that as little as a few weeks pass before Frodo leaves. But this doesn't work because he doesn't have enough time to reach Rivendell by October 20 and Gandalf doesn't have enough time for his researches (much less the Hunt for Gollum).
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 15 2014, 10:38pm)
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Jul 15 2014, 11:15pm
Post #19 of 39
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Gandalf had met the other chieftains of the Dunedain as well.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 15 2014, 11:54pm
Post #20 of 39
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Gandalf had met the other chieftains of the Dunedain as well.
That seems very likely. Gandalf would have wanted to keep track of potential allies--especially the dedicated enemies of Sauron.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jul 16 2014, 12:07am
Post #21 of 39
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A quick ref. to Foster's Guide
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says that all the 'latter' Chieftains of the Dunedain were raised in Rivendell. And I'm sure Gandalf made many stops in this freindly territory.
Although there was probably a 20 year gap between the birth of Aragorn and his meeting with Gandalf at the age of 25 - or Aragorn could have been out on an extended picnic between the ages of 0 and 20.  as he was gone into the wild after the age of 20.
Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 16 2014, 12:16am
Post #22 of 39
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Would Elrond have told Gandalf about young Aragorn?
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Aragorn as a child would have been present in Rivendell when Gandalf was there in 2941 and 2942. However, Elrond was concealing his true identity and might not have even told Gandalf about Estel. On the other hand, if Tolkien had completed his 1960 revision of The Hobbit, it would have been interesting to see if Bilbo would have met the young Dunedain boy.
Although there was probably a 20 year gap between the birth of Aragorn and his meeting with Gandalf at the age of 25 - or Aragorn could have been out on an extended picnic between the ages of 0 and 20.
Um...how about a 25-year gap?
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 16 2014, 12:20am)
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jul 16 2014, 2:31am
Post #23 of 39
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**Flummoxed and discombobulated**
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Um...how about a 25-year gap? Bad conveyance of meaning here on my part. I meant that Gandalf could have met Aragorn in Rivendell between Aragorn’s ages of 0 and 20, but not after 20 as Aragorn was not in Rivendell between 20 and 25.
And you're right, Gandalf (or Bilbo) could have met a young Aragorn during the year of Bilbo's quest.
Cuio i Pheriain anann! Aglar'ni Pheriannath!
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Ithilisa
Rivendell
Jul 16 2014, 3:57am
Post #24 of 39
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I think it would be interesting to know if Elrond did or did not tell Gandalf about Aragorn's identity.
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"Elrond was concealing his true identity and might not have even told Gandalf about Estel."
If Elrond knew who Gandalf truly is and what his mission in ME truly is, I would think he would tell Gandalf about Aragorn's true identity due to the potential role Isildur's heir could play to aid Gandalf's cause. As Imladris was such a safe haven, I would think it would be safe from Sauron's spies and would have been a safe place for Elrond to tell Gandalf the truth.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 16 2014, 4:04am
Post #25 of 39
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Unless someone discovers additional notes from Tolkien from his uncompleted revision that touch on the subject.
Similarly, I would welcome the descovery of a lost genealogical chart that includes the mother of Legolas.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 16 2014, 4:07am)
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