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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jul 12 2014, 10:02pm
Post #1 of 31
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Perhaps it is because I'm afraid and he give's me courage?
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What does it mean?
What is Gandalf afraid of? 
And how does Bilbo give him courage?
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jul 12 2014, 10:06pm
Post #2 of 31
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It's supposed to be thought-provoking, I guess, but (having thought) it doesn't mean much to me.
The filmmakers take every opportunity to make Gandalf seem vulnerable. I suppose it's better than making him abnormally powerful, but it feels manipulative.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jul 12 2014, 10:17pm
Post #3 of 31
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It seems to imply that Gandalf is worried about the rising darkness.
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But I thought he didn't know about any of that until Radagast showed up with the blade? I may be wrong.
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Nira
Lorien
Jul 12 2014, 10:41pm
Post #4 of 31
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He explains it in the lines prior to that...it makes sense in context...
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"I do not know. Saruman believes that it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. I found it is the small things; everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I am afraid, and he gives me courage."
Bilbo is an inspiration to Gandalf. I think his eloquent explanation of this just makes it a little confusing at first glance. There is a strong Tolkien theme about courage and sacrifice of common-type people, nameless soldiers, unexpected heroes. Gandalf knows Bilbo is an unexpected hero; he knows if good is to triumph over evil it will be because of folk like Bilbo.
"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise
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Nira
Lorien
Jul 12 2014, 10:42pm
Post #5 of 31
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This is after he presented that blade to the White Council...
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But yes, I think he is afraid of the rising darkness and uncertainty of the outcome. Galadriel and him discuss this growing evil just before she asks him why Bilbo.
"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise
(This post was edited by Nira on Jul 12 2014, 10:48pm)
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Jul 12 2014, 10:51pm
Post #6 of 31
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But Galadriel's question, to which this quote is an answer, concerns a decision he made much earlier.
However, in DoS we do learn that while Gandalf was unaware of developments at Dol Guldur and Mirkwood, he has long held misgivings about the situation in the North, enough to have urged Thrain to retake Erebor. These misgivings would presumably have only strengthened when he encountered would-be assassins of Thorin on th Greenway, carrying a note written in Black Speech.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jul 12 2014, 11:04pm
Post #7 of 31
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Yes, that is a strong Tolkien theme.
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But the presentation here in this context is very muddled. Are any "everyday deeds of ordinary folk" going to get Gandalf out of Dol Guldur or send the Necromancer packing off to Mordor?
Even in the context of LotR, which the film is trying to suggest, it took some serious action at Helm's Deep, Isengard, and Minas Tirith to hold off disaster while the Hobbits completed their task.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jul 12 2014, 11:21pm
Post #8 of 31
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that I don't think Gandalf knew about the "rising darkness" back when he chose Bilbo for the adventure? Even if he did, I don't think he'd really thought much about how Thorin's quest relates to Sauron's plans, so choosing him shouldn't bring too much comfort?
I'm not trying to pick holes, by the way. I just wanted to discuss how people interpreted this. To me it just doesn't quite fit. But I may be looking at it wrong.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jul 12 2014, 11:27pm
Post #9 of 31
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Ah, so he's a grand manipulater!
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And slightly paranoid...
He must've been worrying about Sauron's potential return way back when Bilbo was a child and even back when Thrain went mad. And been planing schemes since then.
The black speech must have worried him even more, so he took action to investigate further (by meeting with Thorin) and it was probably then that he decided on a hobbit as a form of comfort/source of courage.
I guess that makes sense. 
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jul 12 2014, 11:30pm)
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Jul 13 2014, 7:09am
Post #10 of 31
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Galadriel was asking why Gandalf chose Bilbo to go on the Quest...I can only guess that the writers were trying to bring in something along the lines of Gandalf's comment from the books that he somehow knew that Bilbo had to be involved, for the success of the venture, but to paint Gandalf as being "afraid" or vulnerable, seems a constant theme for the writers. in reality, it was Gandalf, using the power of Narya, that gave courage and encouragement to the peoples of M-e...
In the Third Age, Círdan, recognizing Gandalf's true nature as one of the Maiar from Valinor, gave him the ring to aid him in his labours. It is described as having the power to inspire others to resist tyranny, domination, and despair (in other words, evoking hope in others around the wielder), as well as giving resistance to the weariness of time.
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jul 13 2014, 1:46pm
Post #11 of 31
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it goes both ways in this case?
Do you really imagine Gandalf to be totally invulnerable to fear?
To be able to inspire courage to others doesn't necessarily mean being always fearless oneself, I would say.
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jul 13 2014, 1:51pm
Post #12 of 31
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only confirmed his fears that Sauron may stealthily come back when no one is paying attention any more...
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jul 13 2014, 1:57pm
Post #13 of 31
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none of the big battles could ever win the real victory; they were mostly giving time, as you rightly say, to the Hobbits... and also they kept Sauron's attention away from what was being done that would really destroy him at last, or render him powerless at least.
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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Name
Rohan
Jul 13 2014, 1:58pm
Post #14 of 31
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That Bilbo restores Gandalf's hope in the free people of ME. What Bilbo represents is what Gandalf wants desperately. He is literally giving Gandalf courage and hope.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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Noria
Gondor
Jul 13 2014, 2:12pm
Post #15 of 31
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I don’t think Gandalf is talking about winning battles as such but about finding the courage to continue the fight.
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When I first saw AUJ, I took Gandalf’s words to mean that he was uneasy because of something he didn't describe and the courage and integrity of an everyman like Bilbo gave him strength.
In the DoS prologue we learn that Gandalf already knew that there was a price on Thorin’s head and was concerned about the dragon and the evil possibilities there. By the time he arrived in Rivendell the presence of the Trolls, Radagast’s news and the Witchking’s dagger had confirmed and strengthened his suspicions and given them more focus.
I won’t deny that having read the Quest of Erebor influenced my perception, but I can’t help that. Nor do I deny that the moment is an attempt to recall/duplicate similar inspirational moments in LotR but is less successful. But it does provide one perspective on why Bilbo was chosen. It also indirectly and partially answers the question of why Gandalf was involved in the quest to begin with.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jul 13 2014, 2:31pm
Post #16 of 31
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I am deeply sorry to anyone as offended by this post as I am...
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My most sincerest apologies for this incredibly offensive post, it was not my intent but I have just come to realise there is an unnecessary apostrophe in the title. **shudders** please look past this error on my part, I will inhumanely punish myself post haste.
gives*
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jul 13 2014, 6:29pm
Post #17 of 31
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...it's forging ahead and doing the right thing despite your fear. In perilous circumstances, being "fearless" is plain stupid. Fear is a survival requirement. What matters is not whether you feel fear, it's what you do in the situation.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jul 13 2014, 6:32pm
Post #18 of 31
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...at least you didn't do it in the Reading Room. 
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tsmith675
Gondor
Jul 13 2014, 8:03pm
Post #19 of 31
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But I didn't wanna be that guy and point it out
Our destiny lies above us.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 13 2014, 9:17pm
Post #20 of 31
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Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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shadowdog
Rohan
Jul 13 2014, 9:20pm
Post #21 of 31
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or at least feared it. He said that he feared Sauron using the power of the dragon and that was why he convinced Thorin to retake his land.
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EomundDaughter
Lorien
Jul 13 2014, 9:37pm
Post #22 of 31
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Hobbits represent the common man
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and the courage of the common man is what wins wars according to Tolkien and throughout history..
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Elessar
Valinor
Jul 13 2014, 9:44pm
Post #23 of 31
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That little set of lines by Gandalf is one of my top moments from AUJ. Just love it. I took the line that Gandalf is worried about what may be to come in the future if Sauron is to return and that Bilbo helps him feel more positive that good can do something special. It may not work with some of whats in the text but its a moment that I just really love.
(This post was edited by Elessar on Jul 13 2014, 9:47pm)
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jul 13 2014, 11:25pm
Post #25 of 31
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One of the best moments in all 5 films.
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I generally don't look on The Hobbit films as being of the same caliber as The Lord of the Rings, but this moment is just soul stirring. I admit that I felt it wasn't completely earned in the theatrical cut - but with the restored Bilbo material in the EE, this scene transformed into one of the most breathtakingly beautiful moments of the saga.
One thing here that has to be mentioned is Howard Shore's music, which is an alternate take from the soundtrack version of the scene. Some have criticized it because it more directly quotes music from the end of The Fellowship of the Ring ("The Breaking of the Fellowship"). Not an exact tracking of the original cue, but it's very close. However the effect it has, in my opinion, is quite remarkable. It acts almost as an echo to the events of Rings, even more poignant because in a chronological sense those events haven't happened yet. It gives the feeling that the choosing of Bilbo for this quest will have enormous consequences that the characters cannot yet anticipate.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jul 13 2014, 11:25pm)
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