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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Arty Stuff.

Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Jul 11 2014, 4:22pm

Post #1 of 12 (1042 views)
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Arty Stuff. Can't Post

I was looking at some of the designs for Bilbo's home - was expecting them to have referenced Victorian or Medieval design for Bag End - but was surprised to see what I take to be Arts and Crafts stuff - particularly the rugs. I may be wrong, - Arts and Crafts was heavily influenced by medievalism, so it might be an accident, but I think that whether consciously or not, the design team have absorbed a lot of Tolkien's influences in producing the visual aspect of these films.

I'm re-reading Humphrey Carpenter's biog. of Tolkien and it mentions that he was strongly influenced by William Morris, who was in many respects, almost an earlier version of Tolkien - 'fantasy' writer, artist, medievalist, translator of Icelandic literature, environmentalist etc., and of course father of the Arts and Crafts movement.

Anyway, in the absence of trailers etc. I just thought it was worth mentioning that I'm still discovering things about the depth of the production design of these films that I think does not get nearly enough credit from the usual film and cultural critics.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Arannir
Valinor


Jul 11 2014, 6:16pm

Post #2 of 12 (751 views)
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Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was a bit disappointed the high production value did not get much credit and no mention at all in most reviews - even the positive ones. And I still find it puzzeling how AUJ was nominated with a production design Oscar when DoS was not.

It is great that there is so much secondary literature and material, though. I got interested in film-making via all the seondary material released with LotR. I am sure the same is happening right now for a new generation with TH.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Avandel
Half-elven

Jul 11 2014, 7:37pm

Post #3 of 12 (730 views)
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Not sure I call it production design, but the WETA books 3 and 4 have me drooling [In reply to] Can't Post

Was discussing the "Cloaks and Daggers" WETA book which is finally in general release, and apologies to anyone reading this, because reading both the "Art" book for DOS and "Cloaks and Daggers", since I was up late reading I can't keep what came from what book straight at the moment - tho "Cloaks and Daggers" seems to have the lovely costume details.

At any rate, once again, possibly even more that for AUJ, these wonderful books have opened the door to the completely staggering effort and thought that has gone into these films. And since I DON'T know mostly what influenced Tolkien, but I AM a lover of color, texture, lines in a design, details - ah, the lovely drawings and renditions of Bag End. Not knowing what influenced Tolkien, the building itself I don't know, but I have fallen in love with the color palette of Bag End, which to me was something I thought of as "Tuscan" - buttery walls, touches of natural green, the warm brick color of the floors. I WANT the lovely quilt on Bilbo's bed.

Other things that come to mind at the moment - I always thought of Dale as "Mediterranean" and again loved the colors, but according to the books, fascinatingly the WETA teams looked to Asia - Russia, Tibet, etc. for the building design. Even in the costumes at Laketown. And for Beorn's house, the Icelandic and Nordic influences. That as the Elven King has a motif of branches and antlers, that the icons of being a fishing village are everywhere in Laketown - from fish scale carving on the pillars to the glassware to sculpture. Every single little detail was attended to.

And for Erebor, the thought that Erebor with its soaring staircases and flow, that it is an organic creation in its own right, quarried from the inside, following the natural flow of the waters that stream through the mountain. And the color was based on a real marble they had. And that the confrontation with Smaug was based on the thought that the dwarves had to fight with what they had, against a gigantic beast, and that the dwarves as craftsmen would utilize these great forges as a weapon.

I have 1) years of more reading to do and 2) completely and totally agree with:


Quote
discovering things about the depth of the production design of these films that I think does not get nearly enough credit from the usual film and cultural critics.


It's driving me mad now that some things in the books may be never seen at all, or must be on screen for seconds, after all the work involved. IMO NZ should rebuild some sets as walk-through museums so fans could walk through and immerse themselves.

PS. The Smaug book had me dropping my jaws over the effort that went into him - given me enhanced appreciation for Smaug, and now I understand why they broke that work into a separate book. Fascinating, and again an effort that defies words, really.




Kim
Valinor


Jul 11 2014, 7:43pm

Post #4 of 12 (715 views)
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That would be awesome [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
IMO NZ should rebuild some sets as walk-through museums so fans could walk through and immerse themselves.



I would love to be able to wander through the sets for Bag End, Rivendell, Lake-town, Dale and Erebor and really get a chance to enjoy all those little details. Smile



"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying


“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."


http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_collapsed


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 11 2014, 10:14pm

Post #5 of 12 (683 views)
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Couldn't agree more.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm bowled over by 'Cloaks and Daggers'. The textiles are ravishing. The attention to detail in everything, and the beautiful, beautiful craft work. I can't get over the creativity and skill that has gone into things we hardly see on screen - or don't see at all. Like the little dragon which Gandalf was to have pulled from his sleeve when he first met young Bilbo; the dwarf-made toys; the pages from Ori's book. It's all so lovely. It should be somewhere where it can be seen and enjoyed.


Elarie
Grey Havens

Jul 11 2014, 10:49pm

Post #6 of 12 (673 views)
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The sets, costumes and props in these movies are spectacular [In reply to] Can't Post

I never get tired of looking at them and would dearly love to see them in person. I think the fact that pretty much everything was handmade by such skilled craftspeople is what sets everything apart from almost anything else I've ever seen on screen. Also, in spite of the fact that I've re-watched the movies over and over, I'm finding great new things to admire in the Cloaks and Daggers book, like the photos of Bilbo's bedroom which we never got to see on screen. Great stuff.


And once again the world has not arranged itself just for me.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jul 12 2014, 12:04am

Post #7 of 12 (670 views)
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Long time ago now, but [In reply to] Can't Post

From memory, I believe some of the interiors material in the Lord of the Rings films was based on Arts and Crafts forms (furniture, rugs, etc., in Bag End). Didn't PJ have Arts and Crafts furniture at the time (perhaps he still does)?


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 12 2014, 1:58am

Post #8 of 12 (662 views)
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Maybe think of This...THIS way? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dan Henna &
the Arts & Crafts
people of Nelson, NZ

Richard & Tanya
of Wellington

Got ARTDesign goin'....
into a NEWDirection?

when
They got Alan Lee from England
& John Howe from...Switzerland

THUS,
THIS?

BECAME a NEW...
WORLD-WIDE
ARTMovement

all it's own...

revealed
right before
ourEyes?

ONLY NOW

bom

Crazy


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 12 2014, 8:20am

Post #9 of 12 (624 views)
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In between Two Towers and Return of the King.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... there was an exhibition of artwork, props, costumes and so on from the films that went round the world. I saw it in (I think) the Science Museum in London - one of the big museums, anyway. I had gone there with a friend to see an exhibition on the Titanic, not knowing that the LotR exhibition was on the floor below. It was amazing. I can remember standing in front of Theoden's armour in complete disbelief - if someone had told me it was centuries old I'd have believed it. They had Sting there and the mithril shirt; Galadriel's dress; Aragorn's Ranger costume; a Ringwraith; Saruman's costume; the figure of Boromir lying dead in the elven boat; weapons; conceptual art. It was a real treat to be able to stand within inches of the actual things and really study them.

I wish they would do something similar with The Hobbit.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jul 12 2014, 10:31am

Post #10 of 12 (618 views)
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That exhibition at the Science Museum, London [In reply to] Can't Post

It was fantastic – like looking at real historical artefacts from hundreds of years ago. I can't imagine any other films apart from LotR achieving something like this.

I doubt whether such an exhibition would work for The Hobbit. For a start much of the material for LotR was very familiar to people around the world because it featured in all the hundreds of promo items for the films (as well as the things you could buy like the Decipher cards and statues). The LotR films also had a much higher 'status' among films than do The Hobbit films, for several key reasons. This is despite the fact that in the case of a few individuals playing major characters, such as Richard Armitage, Ken Stott and Martin Freeman, the acting in AUJ surpasses that of most actors in LotR, in my view.


In Reply To
... there was an exhibition of artwork, props, costumes and so on from the films that went round the world. I saw it in (I think) the Science Museum in London - one of the big museums, anyway. I had gone there with a friend to see an exhibition on the Titanic, not knowing that the LotR exhibition was on the floor below. It was amazing. I can remember standing in front of Theoden's armour in complete disbelief - if someone had told me it was centuries old I'd have believed it. They had Sting there and the mithril shirt; Galadriel's dress; Aragorn's Ranger costume; a Ringwraith; Saruman's costume; the figure of Boromir lying dead in the elven boat; weapons; conceptual art. It was a real treat to be able to stand within inches of the actual things and really study them.

I wish they would do something similar with The Hobbit.



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jul 12 2014, 10:32am)


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Jul 12 2014, 2:03pm

Post #11 of 12 (592 views)
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There is always hope [In reply to] Can't Post

Hasn't it been mentioned that PJ plans on building a permanent exhibition for all of the props from the Hobbit and LotR that are currently sitting in a warehouse somewhere in Miramar?

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Leaf of Mirkwood
Bree


Jul 14 2014, 5:26pm

Post #12 of 12 (536 views)
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A permanet exhibit [In reply to] Can't Post

Would be awesome!! They really should do something like that so all the hard work and careful attention to detail can really be appreciated by fans.

I'm going to have to check out that Cloaks and Daggers book! :D

 
 

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