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boldog
Rohan
Jul 11 2014, 8:31am
Post #1 of 20
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So will we see Daisy die?
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You know, Azogs loyal warg?
Do you think they will dedicate screentime, to showing this, or is it really worth it? If so, how do you think she will die? Personally I hope that they do show her death.
And what do you think Azogs reaction will be to it? He seems to be affecionate towards the warg, so maybe this can be the brief scene where we see a bit of emotion on Azogs behalf. Obviously not a whole lot, but im sure he will be upset. Ill actually wager that he will be more upset by the wargs death then his own son.
Thoughts?
I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.
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Boromir Stark
Rivendell
Jul 11 2014, 8:41am
Post #2 of 20
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I would love to see Beorn take on Daisy in bear-form.
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It's likely Bolg will die before Azog, as Azog is one of the 3 main villains of the series. So perhaps just after Beorn kills Bolg he comes to Thorin's rescue, but Daisy intercepts him. Beorn kills Daisy just in time to see Thorin kill Azog and collapse from his wounds - it's at this point that Beorn carries Thorin away from the battle as he does in the book.
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J Pierpont Flathead
Rivendell
Jul 11 2014, 1:37pm
Post #3 of 20
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Daisy is a warg? I guess i missed the genesis of this nickname(?).
I thought this thread was about Tauriel and maybe the nickname was earned from a character Evangeline had played, or something, or somehow just a nickname for these films. I'm looking forward to Tauriel's death, but the warg can stay since, you know, Tolkien actually wrote about wargs.
Now his life is full of wonder
But his heart still knows some fear
Of a simple thing he cannot comprehend
Why they try to tear the mountains down
To bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Jul 11 2014, 1:38pm
Post #4 of 20
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I really like her, even if she did bite Thorin, and I wouldn't mind if she got away at the end. Or if Dwalin adopted her - I think they'd get along! 
And once again the world has not arranged itself just for me.
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 11 2014, 2:24pm
Post #5 of 20
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"...I had to create an emotional world for Azog. I remember sitting on a pummel horse, imagining it was a giant wolf. I called up to Peter and asked what kind of relationship I had with my warg. Because I thought it had to be a Lone Ranger and Silver kind of thing, with a connection between the two"
Bennett then shows his soft side, by revealing that this has lead to him affectionately naming the giant warg he rides Daisy. However it's not all light-hearted as we also learn that there will not be more Azog action in the Christmas release of the extended cut DVD. But Bennett does leave us with the promise that both Azog, and his warg Daisy have got roles to play in the next two films.
"Peter's told me that he's going to build Azog up over the next two films, so I'm getting plenty to do. I don't want to give anything away, but Daisy has a role to play"
from this Manu Bennett interview
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Bofur01
Lorien
Jul 11 2014, 2:28pm
Post #6 of 20
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I'm pretty sure Tolkien wrote about Elves, too...
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J Pierpont Flathead
Rivendell
Jul 11 2014, 2:37pm
Post #8 of 20
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I'm pretty sure Tolkien wrote about Elves, too...
You got me there. But which has been more controversial? Tolkien didn't write about wargs named Daisy or Elves named Tauriel. To resolve this, I'd be in favor of removing both inconsistencies if only to fix the Tauriel problem. But then Azog shouldn't be there to ride Daisy anyway since he really died long ago. 
Now his life is full of wonder
But his heart still knows some fear
Of a simple thing he cannot comprehend
Why they try to tear the mountains down
To bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land
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J Pierpont Flathead
Rivendell
Jul 11 2014, 2:41pm
Post #9 of 20
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It just means Jackson is going to force feed us more Azog because it's the "movie he wants to see" and because Boyens thinks with a name like "Azog the Defiler" how could she not let him live? Maybe she's one of Those Girls who always falls for the bad boys.
Now his life is full of wonder
But his heart still knows some fear
Of a simple thing he cannot comprehend
Why they try to tear the mountains down
To bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 11 2014, 3:55pm
Post #10 of 20
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Maybe, but I'd rather they don't spend a lot of time over it...
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I don't mind about the role they've given Azog so far - no idea how his strand of the story is going to play out, of course - but so far it seems OK to me as a reasonable piece of adaptation. They felt the need for a lead villain; they chose Azog. How this will fit in with Bolg, the Necromancer and the Ringwraiths in what's to come I've no idea.
But as far as I'm concerned the Battle is about Bilbo, the dwarves, Gandalf, the Mirkwood elves, Bard and the Lakemen. Orcs, wargs, bats and so on are background - the antagonist that makes the story. I'd like the time and the focus to be where the emotion is - for me - on Bilbo and the characters he interacts with and cares about. It's Bilbo's story, and to be honest, I couldn't care less how Azog feels about his warg or Bolg, or how his story ends. His role for me is simply to focus the darkness against which the real characters will struggle.
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Jul 11 2014, 3:59pm
Post #11 of 20
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Azog is not a James Bond villain
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who sits there stroking his cat. The point about orcs is that they are portrayed as separate from other races - anything good has been bred out of them. The only things that they will get attached to are things that are extensions of their own ego - the emotion operating would be egotistical pride, not affection. That would be the case for his ride as well as his offspring.
Orcs aren't redeemable. I doubt wargs are either - they would be driven by self-interest, not loyalty. That doesn't stop them from being prepared to risk dying for their cause - they have been bred for it.
I'm not sure we have an equivalent in the real world - human villains tend to get by by pretending their enemies don't count - but still having the normal positive emotions towards their family/children/pets etc. Psychopaths/sociopaths - we don't really understand well enough to say what's going on. I suppose the closest thing to an orc/warg we've got are some of the dogs that are bred to fight - probably so damaged by abusive breeding and training that they are past any chance at being anything other than a danger. But even they might be retrainable.
I hope PJ leaves the positive emotion stuff out of the orcs. He has done so far.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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J Pierpont Flathead
Rivendell
Jul 11 2014, 4:43pm
Post #12 of 20
(1226 views)
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Nice analysis. I can picture Tolkien putting this kind of reasoning into his world building. Maybe he did?
Now his life is full of wonder
But his heart still knows some fear
Of a simple thing he cannot comprehend
Why they try to tear the mountains down
To bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land
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Arannir
Valinor
Jul 11 2014, 6:26pm
Post #13 of 20
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... is certainly something that would make sense during the Bot5A. With Daisy being slain rather swiftly, of course.
And re one of the posts before: What is "force feeding" by a director supposed to mean, I wonder. In the end, one always has to see what a director decided to put in a movie... so maybe I am force fed in the end after all... :D... And the reasonings behind including Azog have been deeper than his name... as was stated by PB in at least one of the interviews in which she also commented on the name. But, I guess it works better for some to ignore that ;)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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MasterOrc
Rivendell
Jul 11 2014, 6:28pm
Post #14 of 20
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...AUJ that Bilbo and Azog's warg were having a slight confrontation which ended obviously when the eagles came.
I just have a hunch that somehow Bilbo will kill his warg in the BOFA.
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Noria
Gondor
Jul 11 2014, 6:35pm
Post #15 of 20
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Well said, dormouse - that's how I feel
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I don't mind about the role they've given Azog so far - no idea how his strand of the story is going to play out, of course - but so far it seems OK to me as a reasonable piece of adaptation. They felt the need for a lead villain; they chose Azog. How this will fit in with Bolg, the Necromancer and the Ringwraiths in what's to come I've no idea.
But as far as I'm concerned the Battle is about Bilbo, the dwarves, Gandalf, the Mirkwood elves, Bard and the Lakemen. Orcs, wargs, bats and so on are background - the antagonist that makes the story. I'd like the time and the focus to be where the emotion is - for me - on Bilbo and the characters he interacts with and cares about. It's Bilbo's story, and to be honest, I couldn't care less how Azog feels about his warg or Bolg, or how his story ends. His role for me is simply to focus the darkness against which the real characters will struggle.
I agree completely.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jul 11 2014, 7:13pm
Post #16 of 20
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Don't you two know that TH is all about hot Dwarves. And hotter Elves. And even hotter Orcs. And Comic Book Action!!!!!™
Bilbo? Sheesh, I doubt he'll even be in the last film. Who needs him.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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leonmuse
Rivendell
Jul 11 2014, 10:49pm
Post #17 of 20
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Oh man, the goofiness never stops?
Daisy? The warg was never said to be a She, even less to have such a name.
Tairiel, Daisy, Azog, Alfrid, the goblin messenger.
Stop it! Lol
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Noria
Gondor
Jul 12 2014, 12:16pm
Post #19 of 20
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Thanks for the reality check Voronwë - I forgot where my priorities should be.
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I do appreciate the hot Dwarves and Elves but there is a lot of beautiful scenery in these movies. I'm more interested in their stories.
Not so much interest in the Orcs and Wargs. As dormouse said, they are just the bad guys, lesser ones at that. For me the interesting villains are Smaug and the Necromancer, not their tools and minions.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jul 12 2014, 10:15pm
Post #20 of 20
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Can you remind me if Daisy is even in DoS?
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I remember her (him?!) at the very start. I assume Azog uses her to get to Dol Guldur, do we see her after that? Is it possible Beorn has his way in a deleted scene and pins her skin to his wall like in the book?
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?! 
