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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Lineage of Durin Tapestry with a small spoilerish image?
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MTT Gandalf
Bree


Jul 5 2014, 8:39pm

Post #1 of 34 (1785 views)
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Lineage of Durin Tapestry with a small spoilerish image? Can't Post

I just noticed, that on the Lineage of Durin Tapestry there is a punk-hairstyled boar next to the name of Dain. Could it be a little spoiler, some kind of a confirm, that Dain will ride a boar?
(And the face of Dain on this Tapestry can be maybe a spoiler too?)

Photo:
http://www.wetanz.com/...ofDurinTapestry2.jpg


~Medieval Soul
The Shire


Jul 5 2014, 8:51pm

Post #2 of 34 (825 views)
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Good find! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been looking for a picture of the whole tapestry for a while. In the movie, the folds and Bard's hand covers most of it up. Thank you (:


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Jul 5 2014, 9:30pm

Post #3 of 34 (800 views)
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Hasn't this already been confirmed? [In reply to] Can't Post

(that Dain rides a boar)


MTT Gandalf
Bree


Jul 5 2014, 9:37pm

Post #4 of 34 (769 views)
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re [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Maybe, but this is an another hint. Wink
And directly from the movie (even if we couldn't see the whole Tapetry, because of Bard's hand)!

Or take it as just a geeky observation!

And there are the runes!
Under the boar: "Iron Hills"
Under the raven: "Erebor"
Under the tup (?): "Ered Mithrim"


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Jul 5 2014, 9:41pm

Post #5 of 34 (770 views)
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Curious [In reply to] Can't Post

Moria isn't among the dwarves kingdoms mentioned (only Erebor, the Iron Hills, and the Grey Mountains). Durin is also portrayed as lord of Erebor, not Moria...but I thought the various Durins all ruled from Khazad-Dum, not Erebor. It seems as if Erebor has completely replaced Moria as the center of Dwarven culture in the movie-verse, whereas in the books it's just a successful colony founded relatively recently compared to the holds in the Misty Mountains and Blue Mountains.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Elarie
Gondor

Jul 5 2014, 9:45pm

Post #6 of 34 (766 views)
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Symbols on the tapestry [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for that. I didn't know Weta had it up on their website; the picture in the Chronicles book is kind of blurry.

Just for fun, I did a quick translation of the runes using Tolkien's Hobbit rune system - under the Raven it says "Erebor", under the boar it says "Iron Hills" and under the ram I think it says "Ered Mithrin". Does anyone know why the picture for Ered Mithrin is a ram?

Also, that geometric symbol on the left is interesting. I'm in the middle of reading "Northern Magic" by Edred Thorsson and it reminds me a little bit of his illustration of the "Helm of Awe". I'd like to know more about it, but I didn't see anything in the book or on the Weta website that explains it, so if anyone has any information about it I'd love to know.


And once again the world has not arranged itself just for me.


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Jul 5 2014, 9:48pm

Post #7 of 34 (742 views)
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The symbol on the left [In reply to] Can't Post

It's the crest carved into the throne of Erebor where Thror sets the Arkenstone

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


MTT Gandalf
Bree


Jul 5 2014, 9:49pm

Post #8 of 34 (734 views)
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The geometric symbol on the left [In reply to] Can't Post

I think, it's the same that is around the Arkenstone, over the throne:
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/...3/Akenstone_film.png


MTT Gandalf
Bree


Jul 5 2014, 9:55pm

Post #9 of 34 (727 views)
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That' right. [In reply to] Can't Post

 
It's a parallel moovie-universe.


Arannir
Valinor


Jul 5 2014, 9:57pm

Post #10 of 34 (718 views)
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time and place [In reply to] Can't Post

In a way that makes sense though if the tapestry was made after Moria had already fallen. Plus, a ruler of Erebor and his subjects would probably place Erebor at the center of Dwarven culture if only to underline his own influence.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Jul 5 2014, 10:06pm

Post #11 of 34 (697 views)
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I dunno [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand that for simplicity's sake it would make sense for the filmmakers to move Durin to Erebor to explain why the line of Durin is so important to the Quest, but surely on a complex prop like this they could have stuck a bit closer to canon and given the label "Khazad Dum" or "Moria" in the center over the Durins and have one of the peripheral branches labelled "Erebor" over the Thrains and Thrors and such.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Arannir
Valinor


Jul 5 2014, 10:14pm

Post #12 of 34 (695 views)
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But Moria... [In reply to] Can't Post

... wasn't an occupied kingdom of the Dwarves at the time. It kind of fits with what royal and noble families in our real world usually do... Putting the actual kingdom or areas of rule into the focus. Maybe with some exceptions or hints to underline the right to rule (such as some emperors trying to somehow link themselves to King David or later the Roman rulers).

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Elarie
Gondor

Jul 5 2014, 11:32pm

Post #13 of 34 (635 views)
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Thanks - putting the Arkenstone in the center of that is very interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

if the movie designers really did base that symbol on the nordic "helm of awe" design.

The "helm of awe" pattern is described in this book as a "map or pattern along which power is guided in very specific ways to do its magical work",* and then goes on to describe, basically, how the arms and terminals of the design direct the power out and then return it. (The actual helm itself was apparently a magical helm for striking fear into the heart of an enemy.)

The explanation is longer and more complicated in the book, but it seems that what the dwarves are doing (as far as I understand this book) is basically sending the power of the Arkenstone out into the universe and then returning it back.

If we've got any lore masters reading this I'd love to know more about this.

*Northern Magic by Edred Thorsson


And once again the world has not arranged itself just for me.


MirielCelebel
Rivendell


Jul 6 2014, 1:35am

Post #14 of 34 (665 views)
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Billy Connelly has confirmed [In reply to] Can't Post

that Dain will be entering on a boar. I understand if you do not believe me since I cannot reference the source but I read it in two separate interviews that Dain will be entering the film riding a massive boar.

"The Road goes ever on..."

Writing Bliss


Name
Rohan


Jul 6 2014, 2:01am

Post #15 of 34 (612 views)
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Yes I've heard that too. [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot of us just weren't sure if Connelly was serious or not.

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 6 2014, 9:22am

Post #16 of 34 (534 views)
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Sources: [In reply to] Can't Post

Here and here.

Connolly is quite the joker when it comes to his interviews - all we know is that Dain is played by Connolly, who may or may not sport a mohawk, and may or may not ride a boar into battle, and he may or may not be wearing a prosthetic


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jul 6 2014, 9:27am

Post #17 of 34 (511 views)
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Nice. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the effort, Elarie!


Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)

Laugh Thrall Wars! Teh partsies: Prologue, One (None save Avandel knows whither teh "One"), Two, Three


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jul 6 2014, 9:29am

Post #18 of 34 (515 views)
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LoL. Saying yes and no seems more Elvish though =P // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Heart Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)

Laugh Thrall Wars! Teh partsies: Prologue, One (None save Avandel knows whither teh "One"), Two, Three


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk


boldog
Rohan


Jul 6 2014, 9:58am

Post #19 of 34 (563 views)
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After excessive observation of this tapestry [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin is the most detailed face. He clearly looks like the actual character in the film. Balin, Dwalin, Oin, and Gloin, look nothing like their real life faces. Frerin doesnt even look like he has eyes! or he has very squinted eyes Crazy

I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.


Arannir
Valinor


Jul 6 2014, 11:59am

Post #20 of 34 (498 views)
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He does? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't have noticed after my observation.... I assumed they were all supposed to be stylized faces.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



MTT Gandalf
Bree


Jul 6 2014, 12:10pm

Post #21 of 34 (479 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe this Tapestry is a better source than Connolly. LaughTongue


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 6 2014, 4:07pm

Post #22 of 34 (457 views)
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I'd buy that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't a reproduction of that tapestry make for a terrific collectable? I would purchase that (for a reasonable price).

Also, I notice that the tapestry confirms that the ages for the Dwarves of Erebor remain unchanged from the legendarium, despite appearances. Thorin remains the oldest Dwarf in the company.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 6 2014, 4:09pm)


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Jul 6 2014, 9:01pm

Post #23 of 34 (394 views)
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Same! [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually thought it was reproduction rather than a poster. I too would like a replica.

I'm surprised Thorin is still the eldest in the company, especially with Balin and Oin being characterised as both being elderly dwarves. I wonder if Weta forgot to adjust the dwarves birthdates or maybe Thorin ages more slowly since he's a more direct descendant of Durin the Deathless.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 6 2014, 10:12pm

Post #24 of 34 (388 views)
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Good Genes [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm surprised Thorin is still the eldest in the company, especially with Balin and Oin being characterised as both being elderly dwarves. I wonder if Weta forgot to adjust the dwarves birthdates or maybe Thorin ages more slowly since he's a more direct descendant of Durin the Deathless.



There may be something to that, considering Dwarves of Durin's line have been recorded as living up to the age of 400 years. A life expectancy of around 250 years does seem to be far more typical.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 6 2014, 10:18pm)


~Medieval Soul
The Shire


Jul 6 2014, 10:41pm

Post #25 of 34 (380 views)
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I too found that strange [In reply to] Can't Post

that Thorin's birthdate on the tapestry makes him the oldest in the company. I thought it was a mistake as well. But reading your comment about Durin the Deathless got me thinking. I didn't know that dwarves from the line of Durin lived longer than typical dwarves. Does this apply to only those dwarves directly descended from him, or do cousins of the heir have it too?

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