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NateGate
Rivendell
Jul 4 2014, 1:37am
Post #1 of 14
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Why did they scale Bolg down in Legolas fight?
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Bolg and Azog are usually 7'1 feet tall, making them absolutely massive. Lawrence Makoare, Bolg’s motion capture actor, is only 6’4, almost an entire foot under Bolg’s real size. However, the editors were easily able to scale Bolg up to Azog’s size using CGI editing. They did the same thing with the Dwarves, Bilbo, and Beorn. They scaled Beorn’s actor (6’2) to over 8 feet tall using the CGI backrounds.
Now, during the Bolg vs Legolas scene they were unable to scale up Lawrence to his height of 7’1 since he was making contact with a non-cgi character. If you pay attention during the fight, he is about 6’4 in comparison to Legolas (Orlando Bloom is 5’10). He is big without a doubt, but I think they should have used Conan Stevens, Bolg’s original actor who is 7’1, for the motion capture in this scene. He would have been able to more truly epitomize Bolg’s massive size in comparison to Legolas.
Doubtless Bolg was truly terrifying in this scene, but I still think he would have seemed more powerful had he been his true height. The difference between 6’4 and 7’1 is HUGE.
What do you think?
Size matters...
http://37.media.tumblr.com/00bbfb5c354255e11cd8386374b03bbe/tumblr_n5p4jtJVNT1siq18no1_1280.jpg
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Cirashala
Valinor
Jul 4 2014, 3:07am
Post #2 of 14
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that Conan Stevens may not have been available for shooting. It's not like there's a ton of 7'1" actors out there, especially ones that are beefed up enough to play Bolg convincingly- most really tall guys I've noticed are pretty skinny.
Plus, too much variation in body type or facial structure would have been problematic in motion capture- if you look at Andy Serkis in the vlogs, his face is literally COVERED in the motion capture dots. I doubt they would have been able to use the same person for both shots with that kind of facial recognition software.
And the fight itself was pretty intense- you would need an actor able to dedicate the time and have the physical stamina enough to be able to complete the whole scene- and given the amount of variation in the shots and the complex choreography, I would be willing to bet it probably took at least a couple of days to be shot in full.
Plus, isn't Stevens in Portland right now shooting something? I remember Ferny on here saying something about that (he's part of the cast) a while back.
(This post was edited by Cirashala on Jul 4 2014, 3:10am)
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Jul 4 2014, 6:07am
Post #3 of 14
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how do you know it was Conan Stevens originally?
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this fight could have been added when they decided to have a middle film plus if this was Azog again wouldn't it be a little repetitive? AUJ ends with a one-on-one fight between Azog and Thorin and DOS ends with a one-on-one fight between Azog and Legolas? I like that it was Bolg not Azog, both sons of powerful leaders in middle-earth.
The flames of war are upon you..
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Jul 4 2014, 6:11am
Post #4 of 14
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really? is The Rock skinny? is Vin Diesel skinny? is Viggo skinny? Orlando Bloom is in good shape and not skinny, there's lots of short guys out there that are skinny too. Tall doesn't equal skinny in my book.
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NateGate
Rivendell
Jul 4 2014, 2:37pm
Post #5 of 14
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Those aren't TALL, also look closely
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There is a difference between the guys you mentioned and a guy who is 7'1. I am 6'1, taller than Vin Diesel, which is pretty tall. Now imagine 7'1, a foot above me, it's absolutely HUGE. Only a small handful of guys are that big, and most of them are in fact skinny, because it's harder to put on muscle when you are more lank.
But I fail to see how a muscular actor even matters, as Azog's mo-cap actor is a shrimpy little guy, and Lawrence is no where near as muscular as Bolg. CGI takes care of the muscle, they just need a guy with a frame of 7'1. If you look closely before and after the fight, Bolg is huge before the fight, towering over his other orcs and even the warg riders. Then he shrinks during the fight to 6'4, and if you look VERY closely, right after he throws Legolas into his orcs and retreats, the camera pans to make him return to his original height again, absolutely dwarfing Legolas.
Size matters...
http://37.media.tumblr.com/00bbfb5c354255e11cd8386374b03bbe/tumblr_n5p4jtJVNT1siq18no1_1280.jpg
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Cirashala
Valinor
Jul 4 2014, 7:18pm
Post #6 of 14
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as to the tall guys being skinny, I understand that there are some and some that aren't. I will grant you that one.
As for the actor, correct me if I'm wrong, but I never said that Azog should fight Legolas, and I'm really confused as to why you think I did.
Manu Bennett played Azog. Conan Stevens was originally cast to play Bolg, but when they went CGI motion capture they changed it and went with Lawrence Makoare, unless I'm mistaken.
What I was saying is that the scaling for Bolg in other scenes made him about 7 foot 1, according to the OP. But during the Legolas fight, he clearly wasn't 15 inches taller than Legolas, but rather only six (because the actors themselves are only six inches apart in height). The person asked why they couldn't have used Conan, as he is 7 foot 1, rather than Lawrence, and I said that their facial structure was different, as was their bodily shape, because they aren't the same person. And when motion capture is done, it wouldn't have matched up. And I also thought that Conan was shooting something else in Portland right now, and thus wasn't available anyway. And it might have been a bit more difficult to scale Bolg to Legolas in such a complicated choreographed fight.
I said nothing about Manu Bennett or Azog. Hence my confusion at your statement.
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TnuaccayM
Bree
Jul 5 2014, 2:01am
Post #7 of 14
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Most people who watch the film don't know that he is supposed to be a 7 foot orc. We know it because we have heard and read every description there is about there characters, but most people don't. The idea is to make them look bigger than ordinary orcs, and I think everyone who watched the films gets the message. And not even Azog appears to be a 7 foot orc. In his confrontation with Gandalf they ar both more or less the same height. It would have been extremely weird to have a 7 foot Bolg fighting with a normal size legolas and make the fight look realistic without any exagerated moves.
And the whole idea was to prove that Bolg is a strong and intelligent orc who is able to beat up Legolas, and the made their point. Forget when they said the 7 foot thing, and just enjoy watching good fights with these big, but not too big orcs :) And as for whoever was fighting with Legolas, I don't thing a 7 foot man would make a good fight. I used to watch wrestling, and everytime they got a 7 foot wrestler I knew it was going to be a boring fight. Not interesting nor thrilling at all.
And in some ways that that we see in the movie stays true to Tolkiens writings, because if I remember well Azog was just as tall as a normal man, nothing about 7 foot orcs.
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Jul 5 2014, 2:06am
Post #8 of 14
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Conan Stevens was originally going to play Azog but he ended up playing Bolg in live-action. PJ decided to motion capture Bolg and Conan Stevens was unable to reprise the role because of his health. You said Azog in you're original post, Azog going up against Legolas.
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Jul 5 2014, 2:10am
Post #9 of 14
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sorry, you're right i was referring to the OP
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Conan Stevens shot himself in the foot when he turned down The Mountain in Game of Thrones for Azog/Bolg, Bolg was removed and replaced with motion capture and it was a different actor. His entire performance was erased and he would have been a way better Mountain than this new guy.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Jul 5 2014, 5:58am
Post #10 of 14
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thanks for acknowledging that I wasn't incorrect
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I appreciate it  I didn't think I got it wrong...
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Jul 5 2014, 6:13am
Post #11 of 14
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they did try to use Conan Stevens again
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he was unable to due to health reasons.
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Jul 5 2014, 10:19am
Post #12 of 14
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because legolas is meant to be tall also,
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as tall as a young tree according to Tolkien, however tall that is.
Crikey, compared to that statement the whole balrogs wings debate is clear cut.
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NateGate
Rivendell
Jul 5 2014, 5:04pm
Post #13 of 14
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Height doesn't matter to short people because everything is big in comparison to them.....lol jk!
But seriously, the thing that makes Azog and Bolg so scary to even us big guys is that they are massive even in comparison to us. The biggest guy at the gym couldn't stand head to head with them. Both of them are obviously 7'1, as they are a good foot above even the bigger orcs. Azog was 2 feet above Yazneg, who was at least 5 feet tall.
And no, Azog WAS taller than Gandalf, a whole head/foot taller. I think the fight would have been more intense if Bolg was his full height, it would have been a less quick hand-to-hand style of fighting. Bolg would have overpowered him, imagine him hammering Legolas down to his knees with explosive blows from his bat instead of just parrying his attacks. Then he would have thrown him around in a much more gargantuan fashion than he did when he was shrunk. It would have done more to support Bolg's true size and ferocity, and create greater respect for him. And wrestling is a bad comparison, it looks boring and fake no matter who is fighting, because WWE is all set-up.
7 foot Orcs are scarier, that's all there is to it.
Size matters...
http://37.media.tumblr.com/00bbfb5c354255e11cd8386374b03bbe/tumblr_n5p4jtJVNT1siq18no1_1280.jpg
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TnuaccayM
Bree
Jul 7 2014, 2:03pm
Post #14 of 14
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Well, you might be right about Azog
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But now that I look at Bolg again, why think that he' been scaled down? Just think that Legolas is a tall elf and done :D
And I would say that thorin is usually scaled down, because in interviews Richard says that he is a tall dwarf almost 5 feet tall, and he looks smaller in the movies. And why the hell do we complain about it?, I think only Tolkien fans complain about how many inches tall are our beloved characters... Just enjoy the movies, these orcs are scary enogh like they are, and let's just be happy. Personally I think the didn't have to be so big, but its a matter of taste. In one year from now they will be complaining about beorn being only 1 foot taller than Bolg... xD We just have to know they are tall, men and elves normal, and dwarves and hobbits smaller :D
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