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LordGawain
Rivendell
Jun 27 2014, 6:19pm
Post #1 of 21
(1483 views)
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Thorin standing in front of the statue
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Maybe it has been noticed before, but I very much enjoyed how, in the scene that Balin says he fears for Thorin, Thorin's face is completely in line with the face of Thror in the statue behind him. I thought this was a nice metaphor for him more and more succumbing to the sickness.
Half a league, half a league, half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death, rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
Theirs not to make reply, theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jun 27 2014, 6:48pm
Post #2 of 21
(830 views)
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Wish there more things like this in DoS (especially with Thorin!)
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I liked this, too. I didn't even notice it the first time I saw it, and I like the (to me) subtlety of the scene.
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Name
Rohan
Jun 27 2014, 9:40pm
Post #3 of 21
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Until I read about it on the forums a couple months after I saw the movie. 
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Jun 27 2014, 10:43pm
Post #4 of 21
(660 views)
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The flames of war are upon you..
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Altaira
Superuser
Jun 28 2014, 12:46am
Post #5 of 21
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It happens once before they get in, only his face doesn't line up exactly with Thror's. After Bilbo get in, it lines up perfectly. I think it's a subtle metaphor for the fact that there's still hope for him until they get in, then his fate is sealed. Brilliant, IMHO!
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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~Medieval Soul
The Shire
Jun 28 2014, 1:56am
Post #6 of 21
(639 views)
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Isn't that amazing how they did that? I love all the hidden meanings in these movies, and how you notice new things every time you watch them. (:
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KeenObserver
Lorien
Jun 28 2014, 2:57am
Post #7 of 21
(621 views)
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I thought the satisfactory metaphor was fairly obvious //
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”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 28 2014, 3:58am
Post #8 of 21
(629 views)
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There izzz a separate thread but probably
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buried on page 2 by now
that had discussed this
Moment within the last week.
But Bomby izz not worried?
Was just looking @
"The Hidden Door" Chapter within the last Hour
...MY MY,
what a Killer Scene...
PJ Ramped that scene up so well
over the Book...
"UberGeeeky Observation" Today...
Thorin HAS this
Heart-Breaking Line...
"What did we,...miss?"
Bomby wanted to
Die a Thousand
Deaths
Watching Thorin pleading with his Family...?
Drops the KEY... they leave Heart-Broken
Jus' "Freaked" Bomby again,
today... again. tomorrow... maybe
Sundayzzz for years
to come?..
To Answer Thorin's Question...
They Gave up because
They Didn't WAIT for the
Thrush to knock?
AND since it was written in
MOON Runes..The Riddle of "The Last Light of Durin's Day..
WAS
MOONLight!"
Such an Amazing
Twist
Thrown @ US by
PJ!
Goldberry Thanks you
for reading, TOO
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jun 28 2014, 4:00am)
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zalmoxis
Bree
Jun 28 2014, 9:39am
Post #9 of 21
(555 views)
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... for WHAT exactly? Tolkien's Thrór or Jackson & Co's inventions? Tolkien's Thrór is not depicted as someone "more and more succumbing to the[whatever] sickness".
(This post was edited by zalmoxis on Jun 28 2014, 9:50am)
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Old Pilgrim
Rivendell
Jun 28 2014, 10:05am
Post #10 of 21
(452 views)
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Very good observation LordGawain
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I have never noticed this despite watching DOS for several times already. There are definitely many subtle things in those movies as I already figured out in LOTR so I am looking forward for any more discoveries.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jun 28 2014, 10:34am
Post #11 of 21
(442 views)
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This is a change from the book that I find entirely acceptable, and in the spirit of Tolkien (unlike two major changes in the storyline, involving the addition of two characters and the way they are used). I would not like to have seen any of the Dwarves as cardboard cutouts, as they are portrayed in the book.
... for WHAT exactly? Tolkien's Thrór or Jackson & Co's inventions? Tolkien's Thrór is not depicted as someone "more and more succumbing to the[whatever] sickness".
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zalmoxis
Bree
Jun 28 2014, 5:27pm
Post #12 of 21
(384 views)
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this whole "sickness" fuss is rather unnecessary. Assigning Thorin's motiv to some inherited "sickness" that already afflicted Thrór makes him a pathological case, pathetic, predictable, exactly a "cardboard cutout", unlike Thorin in the book.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jun 28 2014, 5:42pm
Post #13 of 21
(379 views)
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Thorin in the book is more visible than the other Dwarves, but is rather one dimensional. In general I like the way he has been given a greater depth of character in the film version of the story. I do agree, however, that the 'sickness' was probably an unnecessary addition. It would have been enough to show him as a mixture of heroic (wanting to obtain his kingdom back for his people), and avaricious (hankering after the gold).
this whole "sickness" fuss is rather unnecessary. Assigning Thorin's motiv to some inherited "sickness" that already afflicted Thrór makes him a pathological case, pathetic, predictable, exactly a "cardboard cutout", unlike Thorin in the book.
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Faleel
Rohan
Jun 28 2014, 6:05pm
Post #14 of 21
(368 views)
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PJ took a line from the book "Dragon-sickness" and took it waaaaay too far.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 28 2014, 8:19pm
Post #15 of 21
(325 views)
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PJ took a line from the book "Dragon-sickness" and took it waaaaay too far.
Agreed that Thror was not, technically, afflicted with the dragon-sickness (his treasure not yet having been in Smaug's possession--much less for an extended period of time). However, his Dwarven Ring would have had much the same effect, playing on his inherent love of precious metals and gems and compounding his greed to the point of madness.
The dragon-sickness should gradually corrode Thorin's reason and good sense; it should not be immediately apparent. Signs should not start appearing until after Thorin bestows upon Bilbo the gift of the mithril shirt. The desire for the Arkenstone is a dfferent thing altogether; it has been present (in terms of the films) ever since Thorin learned that the other dwarven houses would not rally around him without it. In book-terms, the Arkenstone was important to Thorin as a symbol of his own line.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 28 2014, 8:56pm
Post #16 of 21
(320 views)
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I do not quite get what you perceive about the sickness idea being more cardboard cutout than book Thorin. Could you explain further? :)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Old Pilgrim
Rivendell
Jun 29 2014, 7:37am
Post #17 of 21
(268 views)
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Wasn't the source of this dragon-sickness in the movies only the Arkenstone? I always thought so because Thror has become obsessed with his gold only after they found it and he put it in his throne.
Also Smaug mentioned to Bilbo in DOS that the Arkenstone will draw Thorin mad which made me think that the Arkenstone influence it's owners the similar way as the One Ring its bearers, that is to corrupt them.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 29 2014, 1:23pm
Post #18 of 21
(250 views)
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That just wouldn't make sense.
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Wasn't the source of this dragon-sickness in the movies only the Arkenstone? I always thought so because Thror has become obsessed with his gold only after they found it and he put it in his throne.
Also Smaug mentioned to Bilbo in DOS that the Arkenstone will draw Thorin mad which made me think that the Arkenstone influence it's owners the similar way as the One Ring its bearers, that is to corrupt them.
Dragon-sickness, even in the movies, was presumably a phenomenon associated with dragon hoards in general, not just Smaug's treasure. It can't be linked solely to the Arkenstone. The Heart of the Mountain was the main focus for Thorin's dragon-sickness, not the cause. Thror's affliction also focused primarily on the Arkenstone, but even there, the cause was (arguably) his own, natural greed coupled with the influence of the Dwarven Ring which came from Sauron. The Arkenstone had no special powers of its own with the exception of its sheer beauty. It is ppossible to argue that Jackson changed this, but even that is open to interpretation.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Name
Rohan
Jun 29 2014, 2:43pm
Post #19 of 21
(237 views)
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Thorin's been pretty normal in the past two movies. There's only been the quick, now and again plunge into "madness." But that's nothing. We haven't seen him start to alienate friends, become secluded, etc. That will come in dear time.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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Old Pilgrim
Rivendell
Jun 30 2014, 5:33am
Post #20 of 21
(211 views)
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but I had to mention my presumption because there are so many ways to interpret connection between dragon-sickness and the Arkenstone just like you said. Perhaps there is too much focus on the Arkenstone in the movies when talking about dragon-sickness and then one can assume that it is basically just this stone responsponsible for all of it while in fact it isn't.
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