|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jun 22 2014, 9:35pm
Post #1 of 17
(998 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Frodo giving the Ring away
|
Can't Post
|
|
I wasn't sure if this question should go here or in the Reading Room, but since the movie is what made me think of it, I decided to put it here.
Why did Frodo keep trying to give the Ring away to other people? In FOTR at least, I can think of three different people off the top of my head that he tried to give the Ring to: Gandalf, Galadriel, and Aragorn. Now, I know he tried to give it to Gandalf because he was scared after finding out what it really was, but what about Galadriel and Aragorn? Was he purposefully testing them, or was the Ring making him offer it to them in the hopes that they would take it and use it so that it could reveal itself to Sauron? If Frodo, not under the influence of the Ring was purposefully testing them, what would he have done if they had tried to take it?
"Love woke me up this morning
With a memory
Love came and whispered a story
That awakened a dream,
I am a dreamer, take me higher
Open the sky up, start a fire
I believe even if it's just a dream"
~"Dreamer" by Bethany Dillon
|
|
|
SaulComposer
Rohan
Jun 22 2014, 10:02pm
Post #2 of 17
(781 views)
Shortcut
|
To leave this responsibility altogether and give it to others, there can be many reasons, fear, overtired, homesickness, overwhelming, losing hope, and so on...
But later Galadriel strengthened him, and so did Gandalf and Aragorn, and basically all the Fellowship...so he got up and continued strengthened and with renewed hope.
Music!
|
|
|
Big Daddy Balrog
The Shire
Jun 23 2014, 6:09am
Post #3 of 17
(744 views)
Shortcut
|
It was clear that Frodo was testing Aragorn. When Frodo asks Aragorn if he would take the Ring, he meant if he would also take it by force. Aragorn felt the Ring seducing him, so that's why they were saying their goodbyes before the Orcs attacked.
As for Gandalf and Galadriel, a frightened Frodo did want a stronger person than himself to deal with the Ring. Both told them the Ring would have a far worse corrupting influence on powerful beings such as themselves, and Galadriel going so far as saying that she would end up taking Sauron's place.
|
|
|
sevilodorf
Tol Eressea
Jun 23 2014, 9:07pm
Post #4 of 17
(688 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yet, would he actually have done it?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Bilbo and Sam are the only two who gave the ring up of their own volition.
If Galadriel or Aragorn or Gandalf had taken the Ring from Frodo, I believe he would have fought to get it back or more likely not have handed over. Remember his vision in Rivendell when Bilbo asked to see it. Not quite the extreme of Jackson's psycho Bilbo, but still a grasping figure that made him want to strike at it
Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com
Home of TheOneRing.net Best FanFic stories of 2005 and 2006 "The Last Grey Ship" and "Ashes, East Wind, Hope That Rises" by Erin Rua
(Found in Mathoms, LOTR Tales Untold)
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jun 24 2014, 2:00pm
Post #5 of 17
(641 views)
Shortcut
|
I think you're right that he wouldn't have actually given it up.
Thanks to everyone who responded.
"Love woke me up this morning
With a memory
Love came and whispered a story
That awakened a dream,
I am a dreamer, take me higher
Open the sky up, start a fire
I believe even if it's just a dream"
~"Dreamer" by Bethany Dillon
|
|
|
Darkstone
Immortal
Jun 24 2014, 2:13pm
Post #6 of 17
(650 views)
Shortcut
|
Frodo would say "Sure, here you go!" and the ring would somehow end up back in his pocket.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
|
|
|
sevilodorf
Tol Eressea
Jun 24 2014, 3:03pm
Post #7 of 17
(636 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Though one must consider the will of the Ring as well
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
If the Ring sensed that leaving Frodo would help it return to Sauron would it have deliberately left him? It abandoned Isildur and IMHO snatched an opportunity to leave Gollum -- not knowing that instead of an orc/goblin it would be picked up by a hobbit.
Of course, that gives a sentience to the Ring that some may not accept.
Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com
Home of TheOneRing.net Best FanFic stories of 2005 and 2006 "The Last Grey Ship" and "Ashes, East Wind, Hope That Rises" by Erin Rua
(Found in Mathoms, LOTR Tales Untold)
|
|
|
Nira
Lorien
Jun 24 2014, 3:35pm
Post #8 of 17
(629 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I agree, he wasn't giving the ring to Aragorn
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
He was sort of testing and making a point to Aragorn so he would understand.
"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise
|
|
|
Barrow-Wight
Rohan
Jun 24 2014, 11:25pm
Post #9 of 17
(619 views)
Shortcut
|
Arwen told him earlier in the film "You time will come, you will face the same evil and you will defeat it" when Frodo pulled the Ring out and said "Can you protect me from yourself? would you destroy it?" you could see it in his face he's like " oh, the time has come" like all of us when a moment we fear comes he's still not sure if he's ready to face it. and you can hear the Ring calling to him if you listen real close it's saying "Aragorn Elessar" Elijah Wood thought it said "Aragorn Bless us" which is awesome too because the Ring is suggesting to Aragorn that it can be used for good and not evil making the temptation sweeter. But Aragorn closes Frodo's hand instead, such an awesome shot by the way that big human hand closing the tiny hobbit hand holding the Ring.
|
|
|
sevilodorf
Tol Eressea
Jun 25 2014, 3:41am
Post #10 of 17
(610 views)
Shortcut
|
|
adding to previous thoughts with Gandalf's words.. which actually open up new questions
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
from The Shadows of the Past
A Ring of Power looks after itself. It may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handling it on to some one else's care - and that only at an early stage when it first begins to grip. But as far as I know only Bilbo alone in history has ever gone beyond playing and really done it. He needed all my help too. And even so he would never have just forsaken it or cast it aside. It was not Gollum, Frodo, but the Ring itself that decided things. The Ring left him.
.... from this the quest was doomed to fail from the beginning. Gandalf should not believe that Frodo would be able to cast it aside... to destroy it.... Gandalf is trusting to "more than one power at work" and hope....
also.... if the Elven Rings are to be considered Rings of Power... how did Cirdan give Gandalf his ring?....
Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com
Home of TheOneRing.net Best FanFic stories of 2005 and 2006 "The Last Grey Ship" and "Ashes, East Wind, Hope That Rises" by Erin Rua
(Found in Mathoms, LOTR Tales Untold)
|
|
|
Maciliel
Valinor
Jun 25 2014, 3:52am
Post #11 of 17
(592 views)
Shortcut
|
|
you beat me to it, sevilodorf!
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
you beat me to it, sevilodorf!
if a ring of power -- not just +the one ring+ -- is so consumptive that no one in history has given one up except for bilbo, so...
1. how did celebrimbor give vilya and narya to gil-galad and nenya to galadriel?
2. how did gil-galad give elrond vilya?
3. how did gil-galad give cirdan narya?
4. how did cirdan give gandalf narya?
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 25 2014, 1:55pm
Post #12 of 17
(575 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Elven Rings were untouched by Sauron
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
you beat me to it, sevilodorf!
if a ring of power -- not just +the one ring+ -- is so consumptive that no one in history has given one up except for bilbo, so...
1. how did celebrimbor give vilya and narya to gil-galad and nenya to galadriel?
2. how did gil-galad give elrond vilya?
3. how did gil-galad give cirdan narya?
4. how did cirdan give gandalf narya?
cheers --
.
The Three did not have the same corrupting influence as the other Rings of Power because they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, without Sauron's assistance.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Maciliel
Valinor
Jun 25 2014, 1:58pm
Post #13 of 17
(583 views)
Shortcut
|
yes, but gandalf was speaking about rings of power in general.... it's plausible he was speaking of all of them, though we can't know for sure.
if he wasn't, your hypothesis certainly makes sense.
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 25 2014, 2:00pm
Post #14 of 17
(571 views)
Shortcut
|
yes, but gandalf was speaking about rings of power in general.... it's plausible he was speaking of all of them, though we can't know for sure.
if he wasn't, your hypothesis certainly makes sense.
cheers --
.
Gandalf was speaking generally. However, the Three Elven Rings, untainted by Saurons, would have been the exceptions to the Rule (sorry, couldn't resist!).
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Maciliel
Valinor
Jun 25 2014, 2:06pm
Post #15 of 17
(567 views)
Shortcut
|
love the pun. : )
i think we cannot know for sure if the inability / difficulty in giving up a ring of power arose from sauron's influence or just from the perils of desiring power.
tolkien writes a lot about evil arising from a desire to dominate, and evil and danger can also arise from just aspiring to greater power and might (the desire to dominate could come later). bad things arising from wanting to organize, wanting to better. this was certainly a continuing theme in galadriel's story.
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 25 2014, 2:08pm
Post #16 of 17
(574 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Well,the desire for power always has the potential to corrupt. //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Maciliel
Valinor
Jun 25 2014, 2:10pm
Post #17 of 17
(629 views)
Shortcut
|
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
|
|
|
|
|
