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New Line Cinema Sued by Tolkein Estate (over film profits...)
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Sunflower
Valinor

Feb 14 2008, 12:36am

Post #176 of 342 (14118 views)
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See below.... [In reply to] Can't Post

For my response. Under the post "And that's just with NL"

Sorry, but I prefer to view in Flat mode, but I post in Threaded, and this thread is getting WAY too long and it's starting to be a pain to view Threaded.....the less posts the better:)

BTW, FryGuy, welcome if I haven't said it before! People havedifferent opinions and that's all to the good. My status is that of "Huge 1980's book fan, BUT also PJ admirer though not worshipper, but I AM a Fran and Philppa worshipper, b/c they wrote the best scenes of LOTR." Inother words: Book fan, and NOT film purist.


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Feb 14 2008, 12:42am)


L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


Feb 14 2008, 12:58am

Post #177 of 342 (14096 views)
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Someone should file a 'bridge' lawsuit linking the Hobbit and LOTR suits./ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I don't want to go to work today,
But the master of the whip says nay, nay, nay.


Sunflower
Valinor

Feb 14 2008, 1:00am

Post #178 of 342 (14117 views)
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A year and a half????? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, since you don't care for the films too much, you don't seem concerned about that long a delay.

However, to those of us who care passionately about the films, a year and a half would be shattering. We've already been patient enough since November of 2006. And we've been willing to wait long enough for people like Del Toro to be recruited.

But try to see it from the POV of the film fans. Any delay of longer than 6 months at this point and we certainly lose Del Toro, who is our best hopes for making films with the quality and vision of Fran and Philppa, if not the best of PJ. And we will not get him back. Del Toro is the hottest thing in Hollywood right now, and in addition to having 3 or 4 projects of his own in the pipeline that he had to delay to commit to The Hobbit, he is being fought over by just about every studio in Hollywood to commit to further projects. I'd say he's even hotter property than PJ at the moment.

Which leaves who? Sam Raimi, for a start. PJ is too tied up in projects of his own to tackle this, at least until 2012 or therabouts. And there are those who dread PJ ever coming back to the director's chair.

A year long+ delay only hastens the chance of losing Lee. Whose character is the heart of Film 2. And if you are familiar with the Harry Potter films, you can only appreciate what the addition of Micheal Gambon as Dumbledore has done to the artistic quality of those films. Even people who have gotten used to him by now and even like him, the feeling is universal: he is NOT Dumbledore and this is a HUGE flaw marring the series in uncountable ways.

The available pool of people who can supplant Lee is vanishingly small. Youcan find good visual substitutes but nothing supplants that voice.

I will NEVER forget that they chose to bring this lawsuit on the day before the end of the writer's strike. When all should have been set to go. It's like Nov 2006 all over again, and it will be hard for me to forget.


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Feb 14 2008, 1:05am)


stormcrow20
Gondor


Feb 14 2008, 1:05am

Post #179 of 342 (14126 views)
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Health [In reply to] Can't Post

The words "good health" came from Lee's own mouth, according to this article: click here.
“I still enjoy it and am in pretty good health,” Lee said. “I have a back problem but I’ve had that for years. As long as I’m able to get on the golf course, I’m happy.”

I believe him, as he is the only person who could know for sure.

Of course everyone can't be Strom Thurmond. But if you live to be 85 and are still healthy, as is Mr. Lee, you have a pretty darn good chance of living to be 100 or more. And if Lee happens to be wheelchair bound in a few years as you theorize, but is willing to do his best in the role, and is believable, I'd say go for it, he deserves it.

Yes, I will assume someone at that age will remain in as good health in a mere 3-6 months. Because I certainly will not assume the opposite. I accept that all things are possible, good and bad, but I will not think so negatively.

Believe me, I have seen enough tragedies in my family within my short life, even within the last year, to know that anything, including one's health, can change in an instant. But I will not give in to the mindset, or allow negative thoughts to hang over my head, that something could happen/is going to happen at any moment. I will assume the best, hope for the best, pray for the best, do whatever I can possibly, humanly do, and leave it in the hands of God.

I'm sorry if I seem rude, but your comment hit me between the eyes.

Remember a phrase I mentioned to you a few months back? Constant Resilience.




In Reply To


Replying to: Huh? by Sunflower
-----------------------------
Edit: for Stormcrow:

After 85, "good health" is relative term. NEVER assume anyone at that age will stay in as good health in 3-6 months. Not everyone can be Strom Thurmond. It's even more relative if this thing stretches on another 2-3+ yrs. You don't want the poor guy wheeled to the set and propped up on a bunch of pillows delivering his lines. At the White Council he should be striding back and forth, turning to face various members there, making vigorous gestures. It ties in artistically to the vigorous man from the Trilogy.

Artistic nitpicking, I know, and I am sure CL would *want* to be wheeled to the set if this was filmed 2010 or 2011.and his health had slowed down. He's so enthusiastc about Tolkine that he's try for the part on his deathbed. But there's a limit



"Good Morning!"


fryguy34167
The Shire

Feb 14 2008, 1:08am

Post #180 of 342 (14092 views)
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Not a big deal to me [In reply to] Can't Post

I did enjoy the films up to a point. My problem with the films was that he could have made them much closer to perfect had he, Fran and Philippa not butchered the script the way they did. As to Del Toro, I am sure there are many other directors out there just as talented so I am losing no sleep over that either. I do not see any reason to be concerned about Lee as he would have no role whatsoever in a film version of the Hobbit, at leat not as Saruman because Saruman does not appear anywhere in the Hobbit. Putting Saruman in the Hobbit would simply give me another excuse to bash PJ.

Thank you for your welcome by the way:) I can see that you and I do not agree on much, but I am always up for a good debate~


(This post was edited by fryguy34167 on Feb 14 2008, 1:10am)


Sunflower
Valinor

Feb 14 2008, 1:10am

Post #181 of 342 (14105 views)
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*sigh* [In reply to] Can't Post

I know, I know, it's just so hard right now.....

My grandpa lived to be 92. He was in great shape at 85, still able to work in the garden, but his eyes started going when he hit 88 or therabouts. He had been born in the Old Country and was healthy as a horse, a real clean liver, etc etc. But there you go.
Ditto the tragedy thing. You have no idea...and right now...

Anyway, I've got to get off here for a while....Tongue


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 14 2008, 1:26am

Post #182 of 342 (14084 views)
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They'd never get financing [In reply to] Can't Post

Studios are completely dependent on outside financing for a movie budget as large as The Hobbit, and no investor would take such a risk to make a movie while a lawsuit is underway. Won't happen.

Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.


NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Feb 14 2008, 1:30am

Post #183 of 342 (14098 views)
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Not to all of us [In reply to] Can't Post

Frankly, the longer the delay, the better for me. More of a chance for me to save up money for a NZ premiere trip ;P Of course I don't want either older actor to pass away, but as was stated before, both are healthy. Heck, my grandma is 87 this summer and still walks everyday and goes to old people exercise classes. Considering how healthy he looks on the screen, unless some awful accident occurs, I don't see him passing during filming like the old Dumbledore did (who looked rather ill in the second film, anyhow). And, like Stormcrow, I refuse to dwell on negative "what ifs". I would go mad if I did and lose my oh-so-sensible-persona ;)

My LJ
My art site
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(This post was edited by Ainu Laire on Feb 14 2008, 1:33am)


orcbane
Gondor


Feb 14 2008, 2:23am

Post #184 of 342 (14098 views)
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Suits against NL trigger US Recession [In reply to] Can't Post

I made that up of course. They say that truth is stranger then fiction, but I am forever trying anyway. What if NL is not the real target?


Whoops...almost forgot.
Wink

An Ent juggling spikey things ?

(This post was edited by orcbane on Feb 14 2008, 2:25am)


orcbane
Gondor


Feb 14 2008, 2:35am

Post #185 of 342 (14092 views)
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Chase card odds [In reply to] Can't Post

I really like that idea. Almost lawsuits as art, and maybe like a series. Yes, a collectible series of lawsuits. The first 50 copies will be signed by either Paul Zaentz, Christopher Tolkien or Peter jackson at random in the collectible lawsuit trading card series. Chances of finding signed cards are approximately 1: 400 Trillion.

An Ent juggling spikey things ?


mwirkk
Rohan

Feb 14 2008, 3:04am

Post #186 of 342 (14071 views)
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What those Guiness boys said... [In reply to] Can't Post

...BRILLIANT!!!

-mwirkk :)


ArathornJax
Lorien


Feb 14 2008, 3:14am

Post #187 of 342 (14062 views)
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Don't Worry Be Happy [In reply to] Can't Post

I would not be overly worried at this point about the suit. I said this before and will say it again. Money is what this is all about. Money makes the business world go around. Time Warner has been under pressure since 2002. Richard Parsons the previous CEO did a good job handling a mess until his retirement, but he never made major changes to the organization and thus the stock price remained flat.
With Parson's retirement as of Jan. 1 of this year, Jeffrey Bewkes his replacement is under pressure to make the stock price begin to trend upward. To accomplish this, Bewkes has announced some major changes to the organization. AOL online access is now up for sale. The changes with New Line merging into Warner Bros., and the possible selling of it's cable unit. Each of these business units is either very unprofitable for the parent company, or it's business model does not fit with the model that Timer Warner has (i.e. the Cable Unit).
So though $150 million is A LOT of money, for a company of this size, it is not that huge. Time Warner reported for last year an income of 4.39 billion, with revenues of 46.48 billion. My bet is the lawyers will fight it out behind the scenes, with some court appearances occurring, and relatively quickly, the movie will be made.
I think it is also important to understand how business people think. Business people are usually risk takers, at least the ones in power and that is how they get there, by taking risks. Having said that, if a sure thing comes along that will bring profits and revenues with an almost guarantee, you do that. That is what The Hobbit is, a guarantee profit for Time Warner. Though other movies will be made, some are not guaranteed to produce a profit, so in this case, a settlement will be reached and the terms will remain confidential. Look at Zaekes and Peter's own settlements. They are private and have resolved the issues.
As has been stated, TE I believe knew what they were doing with the timing. They feel they are owed, and probably are, but when or IF the original agreement is made public (or someone pays to see the current suit) we won't know what TE is owed. Time Warner may allow sometime to go by before acting (to get concessions from TE) but in the end, money talks, and they'll pay in order to make more money.

The thing that really interests me is what the agreement will be between New Line/Time Warner and the Tolkien Estate. I doubt we'll ever know though.

Let us then be up and doing
With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing,
Learn to labor and to wait.

H.W. Longfellow




Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 14 2008, 4:18am

Post #188 of 342 (14069 views)
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Frodo Lives? [In reply to] Can't Post

Remember that back in the 60's people were supposed to have written 'Frodo Lives' all over walls? Well, maybe not as much as 'Clapton is God', but it was written......

I guess those folks didn't get that going to the Undying Lands didn't keep you alive forever. Perhaps the way folks seem to reinterperet things these days, Frodo DOES live?

BTW, I am a purist; Big surprise there, LOL!
What JRRT says, to me, is FACT........


Sunflower
Valinor

Feb 14 2008, 5:30am

Post #189 of 342 (14078 views)
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Some words of advice for Shaye (and Lynne) [In reply to] Can't Post

Just found this in a book I have. One of former Paramount honcho Pater Bart's many great recent books on Hollywood.

From "Who Killed Hollywood (And Put The Tarnish On Tinseltown)", c. 1999, pps. 40-41.

The book is a series of essays he contributed to Variety. He still is a frequent contributor.

"In firing his CEO, Frank Biondi, Edgar Bronfman Jr (of Universal) helped create the ranks of Hollywood's "golden parachute" club--executives who regularily seem to benefit to the tune of tens of millions of dollars from their abrupt dismissals. Biondi's achievement inspired the following commentary in Variety on November 23, 1998.

Fired Up Over Getting Fired

A wave of firings seems to have sept over Hollywood as the holidays draw near, reminding us of the industry's unique take on the Christmas spirit. Not surprisingly, Frank Biondi was this wave's best-known victim.

I say 'not surprisingly' because the 53-yr old Biondi has truly raised the art of getting fired to an art form. The Harvard Business School should require careful study of his exit skills, his civility in accepting dismissal, his generous words for the boss who fired him, and, finally, the consistency with which he extracts extrordinary largess.

Biondi is surely the superstar of the golden parachute set, a man who has turned two firings in three years to a $45-million windfall.

Always self-effacing, Bionadi would be loath to boast of his skills, but were he to create a manual called "How To Get Rich By Getting Canned", I think its guidelines would go something like this:

1)Always recruit your boss, don't let them find you.
2)Be sure you and your new boss are fundamentally incompatible in terms of style and temprment.
3)Work diligently in your initial months to excerbate these difficulties.
4)Encourage your company to deal off that sector of the business that constitutes your principal specialty, thus rendering you irrelevant.
5)Create a public image through press interviews and industry speeches that is respected yet invisible.
'6)Construct an exit strategy focusing on those lavish perks that cannot possibly be withdrawn or rescinded upon termination.
7)Always speak well of your former bosses so that, if necessary, you can make the rounds again....


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Feb 14 2008, 5:34am)


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Feb 14 2008, 6:55am

Post #190 of 342 (14028 views)
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Thanks for the link! [In reply to] Can't Post

That was interesting. Yes, she seems to have seen at least one of the movies. Good Wink

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Feb 14 2008, 7:14am

Post #191 of 342 (14019 views)
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IIRC [In reply to] Can't Post

The young family member who was cast out for approving of the films was Simon Tolkien, Christopher's oldest son from his first marriage. That is why I was rather surprised to see his name listed among those who filed this lawsuit. Either I got something completely wrong or there has changed something.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


fryguy34167
The Shire

Feb 14 2008, 11:01am

Post #192 of 342 (14033 views)
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Simon Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

Simon Tolkien is still a trustee of the family trust. Therefore he would naturally be listed as a plaintiff in any litigation undertaken by the Tolkien Estate whether he had any part in initiating the litigation or not. For more information on he and his relationship with his father and grandfather you may wish to check out some of the biographical information on his website: http://www.simontolkien.com


Elven
Valinor


Feb 14 2008, 11:26am

Post #193 of 342 (14004 views)
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How big a hat do you think we'll need to hold 300 million? ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll start crocheting now Laugh ..


Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ...


Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ...


Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!

Russell Crowe for Beorn

Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Feb 14 2008, 11:49am

Post #194 of 342 (14017 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Will have a closer look at this website.

Well, I thought in this article back then it was mentioned that Simon was thrown out of the Estate, that's why I was surprised. But I've seen this news only once, and I have no idea how much was true and how trustworthy the website was. So I don't insist Wink

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


overlithe64
Rivendell

Feb 14 2008, 12:16pm

Post #195 of 342 (14066 views)
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I was writing in Crayola in the 60s [In reply to] Can't Post

I do know the history however. Purist or just lover of the story..thats what makes this fandom tick...thrive. If there was no discussion it would be dead. I don't disagree with purists but I have to follow my heart in some instances and that doesn't always agree with dear JRR completely nor do I 100 percent agree with PJ. I have to say however that the more I learn, because, after all, this is a huge learning curve...The more I see what Tolkien was saying and the more I lean that way. Bottom line I love the Tale....I love the way it makes me feel and if I don't agree with everyone in all things...well, it just means there is room for more growth and learning and discussion.

Think of how long our fandom will endure because of the depth of the material, I've been in love with the story for 21 years since that first time I opened the pages and was pulled into Middle Earth. And because of the films I learned so much more because of conversations with kind folks like you...and others who are vastly more knowledgeable than I. Just think how many people who knew nothing prior to the films, who will want to learn.....The work here will never be done, in that alone the differences between film and book are at least justified...for the questions controversy and conversation alone.

Frodo lives...in my heart forever....


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Feb 14 2008, 12:38pm

Post #196 of 342 (14000 views)
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Very well said! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm rather new to the fandom myself, but I'm always amazed how many details I'm finding through every new reading and how many perspectives one can get to know and appreciate through the discussions with fellow fans.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 14 2008, 2:27pm

Post #197 of 342 (14018 views)
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Agreed.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless you disagree on the purist part, unless my meaning of a 'purist' is wrong, but let me not belabor that point as I gave my definition of 'purist' before, btwo posts back I think.

I really enjoyed the movies despite finding some things I didn't agree with & a few I couldn't take like 'Sauron the Lighthouse' or "Go home Sam" at the top of the Endless Stair, or Aragorn not wanting to be King whereas in The Books he spends his whole life dedicated to the final task of becoming King, or - you get the point. Yet, I would still consider TLOR one of 'The 100 Greatest Movies Ever' as AFI calls their list (dividing TLOR into 3 films seperate films for this purpose is impossible to me as it is one complete story). So, despite the changes, I must like it alot, huh? Cool

I think it's good that it brings lots of new people into Tolkien's world, but by the threads produced here, we can deduce that the major interest seems to be in the fims & not the books.
People have argued that's because everything about the books has been discussed, but I disagree. I've been reading Tolkien for 31 years & am still finding new things. Conversely, I've seen the films for 5 - 7 years now & know them by heart. There's 13 hours of film in the EE's, but about 5000 - 6000 pages, I would guess, counting all the Essays of new & different material in The Hobbit, TLOR, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Letters Of JRR Tolkien, & the various Volumes of History Of Middle-earh that have unearthed 'valid' writings to the history of Middle-earth (not 'early' stories) in them........

That's a whole lot to read & talk about.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 14 2008, 3:11pm

Post #198 of 342 (13984 views)
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*mods up!* [In reply to] Can't Post

"I love how it makes me FEEL." That's it in a nutshell. I don't think there are very many people who have the same passion and appreciation for the story who also have the exact same interpretation on every point. That's because the story is personal to each of us. It's incredible that Tolkien was able to write about this true world that is intimate for each of us. Magical. A gift. There's no right or wrong about it :)

Thanks, overlithe64. Your post makes me smile :)






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Dreamdeer
Valinor


Feb 14 2008, 6:57pm

Post #199 of 342 (13973 views)
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Boycott [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm about to say something that might make people very angry with me, and which scares me to say, but I've been recruiting people to boycott New Line until they straighten out their business with the Tolkien family, and to send New Line postcards telling them so. I loved the movies beyond their faults here and there, and it would really hurt me to not go see "The Hobbit", but I owe too much to JRR Tolkien to support those who are cheating his children. Since he died they are the only living people to whom I can express my gratitude. They might well think that they are owed more than they actually are, they might compromise and settle for a lesser amount, but receiving no payments since the initial one is still inexcusable.

To me this looks like a time to decide between what we want and what is right.

(As for Simon Tolkien's involvement, I do hope that this means he and his family have reconciled. If JRR had ever foreseen his book coming between his son and grandson, he would have thrown the unpublished manuscript into the nearest volcano! The whole point of the Silmarillion was that even if a thing is made by one's beloved father, from the purest light of heaven itself, if you value that thing more than people, it inevitably corrupts you.)


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 14 2008, 7:34pm

Post #200 of 342 (13971 views)
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Gladly Boycott [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll gladly boycott New Line and/or any movie studio, because what's out there worth seeing?

I saw 'I Am legend', first movie I saw in 8 months & 3/4 of the way through, I realized it was a remake of a Vincent Price movie I had seen on TCM about 3 months earlier called 'The Last Man On Earth', right down to the flashbacks & vampires, etc.

It seems most of what Hollywood produces these days is sequels & remakes & at $9 a pop, boycotting is fine with me. But, this is why The Hobbit, as an original adaption would be so refreshing, not only to us Tolkien fans but to the public in general. How many Matt Bourne flicks or 'Ocean's 69' or whatever number they're up to now can you take?

On the subject of 'the book', I'd like to know more about the son & grandson, I've heard about a tift but don't know details. It is interesting however, to note that no new storyline or information came out in 'The Children Of Hurin'. I have been reading that story as laid down in that book for 25 years since 'Unfinished Tales' came out. All one has to do is go from UT to The Silmarillion to UT's Footnotes back to UT to The Silm (whatever) & the whole story is there. 'The Children' just resifted it into one straight line. And this caused a family fued?

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