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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Jun 1 2014, 10:28pm
Post #1 of 12
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Can someone please direct me to which one of Tolkien's works
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I can find the backstory that explains why there is bad blood between the dwarves and Thranduil and over certain white gems?
Thank you! 
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Laineth
Lorien
Jun 2 2014, 12:43am
Post #2 of 12
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… it's pretty complicated, and spans over several works. Here are some great links, though. But first;
I assume what prompted this is this passage from The Hobbit:
So to the cave they dragged Thorin-not too gently, for they did not love dwarves, and thought he was an enemy. In ancient days they had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bargained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay. If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more, since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf-lords of old. His people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth. All this was well known to every dwarf, though Thorin’s family had had nothing to do with the old quarrel I have spoken of.
Basically it goes back to the fact that The Hobbit was never supposed to be part of the legendarium. In this part, Thranduil is not the elven-king we're talking about (most of the time). It's actually talking about Elu Thingol, King of Doriah. But even that's not the beginning for the tension between elves and dwarves.
So, now to those links. I highly suggest reading them all, as they each give a piece of the puzzle.
This page provides various quotes, and as such is a good source. However, you have to read all the "answers" to get them, and they are not in order. Therefore, I would suggest coming back to it.
Most of the links come from my absolute favorite blog, Ask Middle Earth:
Overview list of posts (the entire "elves and dwarves" tag is very good, if you have the time)
As for Thranduil specifically, I would read these posts (after the general ones):
Thranduil and Greed
Thranduil's Father and Past
Thranduil and Mordor
Thranduil and Erebor
~*~
I hope this helps!
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Jun 2 2014, 2:29am
Post #4 of 12
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I just want to say that this post is most comprehensive and scholarly! Well done!!
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Jun 2 2014, 3:36am
Post #6 of 12
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Yeah, Thranduil is one complicated dude
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I'm going to read through these later, thanks! But a quick thought: I would say that Thranduil (I know the identity of the Elvenking was debated and not official until Tolkien published LotR but I will take it that it Thranduil from the get-go to simplify things a little ) in TH the book is barely sketched out though the character moments pre-Battle were very tantalising, and as said, goes counter to his portrayal in earlier pages. The movie, though I love it, has gone the length to texture/layer/dimensionise Thranduil and set him up as the opposing king to Thorin's houseless rule but neglects to give him a background the general audience can get a handle on, which is a pity I think.
And coincidentally, I was asking a question in the TH forum where this info provided some relatedness and interest and add dimensions to the discussion, so double thanks to Grey Elf for putting up the Q and Laineth for the information.
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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Laineth
Lorien
Jun 2 2014, 4:39am
Post #8 of 12
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… thank you so much!
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Laineth
Lorien
Jun 2 2014, 4:44am
Post #10 of 12
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Thank you!!
I never really took notice of Thranduil before seeing DoS. Lee really made the character come to life for me. I know what you mean, though; we get a great hint with his facial expression (when the orc is going 'world will burn', etc) but not much detail. I really hope the DoS EE and the third film expand on it!
As for Thranduil in general, this is a really good article. I didn't link it before because it doesn't have much to do with the dwarves.
Thanks again.
(This post was edited by Laineth on Jun 2 2014, 4:45am)
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elf-lady
Rivendell
Jun 9 2014, 3:12pm
Post #11 of 12
(225 views)
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Great links. By the way, the last one for Thranduil and Erebor is wonky.
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Laineth
Lorien
Jun 9 2014, 4:04pm
Post #12 of 12
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Okay, let's try this again!
http://askmiddlearth.tumblr.com/post/41540189674/thranduil-and-erebor
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