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JRandomRohirrim
Rohan
Feb 11 2008, 8:39pm
Post #1 of 342
(23396 views)
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New Line Cinema Sued by Tolkein Estate (over film profits...)
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080211/ap_en_mo/tolkien_lawsuit_1
It's Official! Jackson to Produce The Hobbit! Woot! Woot!
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diedye
Grey Havens
Feb 11 2008, 8:54pm
Post #2 of 342
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*watches Bob Shaye try to put out the flames on his coattails*...
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*watches them turn to ashes*
*shaking head*
I swear, if this whole Newlne lawsuit business wasn't so pathetic, it would make a great cartoon.
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MrCere
Sr. Staff
Feb 11 2008, 8:57pm
Post #3 of 342
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I was pretty surprised not to see this posted
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So I posted on main and then found it here. Seems kinda MAIN BIG NEWS WOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IT type news to me but thanks for getting it up and on the site.
I think I may file against New Line as well - all the cool kids are suing them.  I wonder if this will end up being another attempt to open the books and the $6 billion reported in the article means (according to my own theory) that each Hobbit movie is worth about $2 billion, give or take. Wow.
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
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JRandomRohirrim
Rohan
Feb 11 2008, 8:59pm
Post #4 of 342
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But, in this case, the suit may be off-base
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The claim is the movies made 6 billion (yes, that's with a B) dollars worldwide.
Wouldn't THAT have been nice?? Not even the Harry Potter or Pirates movies (combined) have made that much.
It's Official! Jackson to Produce The Hobbit! Woot! Woot!
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MrCere
Sr. Staff
Feb 11 2008, 9:01pm
Post #5 of 342
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I think that isn't box office receipts
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That is DVD sales and lunch box sales and costume sales and Evenstar replica sales and so forth and so on forever and ever amen.
I can look at my own modest collection of stuff surrounding the films and the price I paid for movie tickets is only a small fraction of money spent. I can believe that figure.
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
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Lunamoth
Rohan
Feb 11 2008, 9:14pm
Post #6 of 342
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Yeah, it has to include merch sales. Ticket sales for the trilogy worldwide was $2,913.1 million according to Rotten Tomatoes. But all those little figurines and busts and so forth that continue to be licensed add up way more than movie tickets!
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Elven
Valinor
Feb 11 2008, 9:14pm
Post #7 of 342
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http://news.yahoo.com/...mo/tolkien_lawsuit_1
By ALEX VEIGA, AP Business Writer
LOS ANGELES - The estate of "Lord of the Rings" creator J.R.R. Tolkien is suing the film studio that released the trilogy based on his books, claiming the company failed to pay a cut of gross profits.
The writer's estate, a charity dubbed The Tolkien Trust, and original "Lord of the Rings" publisher HarperCollins filed the lawsuit against New Line Cinema on Monday in Los Angeles Superior Court.
It claims New Line was required to pay 7.5 percent of gross receipts from the films to Tolkien's estate and the other plaintiffs. The lawsuit estimates the films have reaped nearly $6 billion combined.
New Line can't get out of the firing line lately. There is also another lawsuit pending at present as well regarding LOTR and its profits ... though I doubt the Tolkien Estate are out of line on this ... they seem fairly confident when they go into these things ...
I seems to me that these suits are coming up prior to New Lines new 'management structure' - so there is something going on thats relevant, and seems as if people are moving now before New Line are cut up into pieces, sold, or dissolved ... at this rate, New Line will claim bankruptcy and fold, and nobody will be happy ... this news, makes me more nervous than Bob Shaye or Lynne being removed and any talk of Warner reconstructing New Line ...
If this case goes through, or bankruptcy is declared, things will change for the Hobbit ... and no, Im not seeing Disney here, I just think the timeline will be distrupted - and there may be a new logo opening the film ...
I wonder if a quick settlement would be better than to bandy around with these lawsuits ... though Im not suspecting this will happen, but this is another tyre on the Hobbit Rollercoaster that just fell off.
I hope there is some more news about this soon ...
Cheers
Elven
Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ...
Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ...
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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Elven
Valinor
Feb 11 2008, 9:20pm
Post #8 of 342
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That this figure is closer to the actual true figures! - give or take a million here and there ... I think Pete might have been short changed ... or alot of people may have been ... lets see if this starts an avalanche!
No wonder those New Line books and receipts were no where to be found ... a box full of papers ... phht! I have more reciepts for my cat food over 3 years than that! ... and just maybe Bob Shaye and Michael Lynne are 'going on holidays' for a better reason than retirement ...
This is just mind boggling!
Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ...
Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ...
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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Jazmine
Tol Eressea
Feb 11 2008, 9:27pm
Post #9 of 342
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It mentioned in the article that the Tolkien Estate has attempted, unsuccessfully to deal with this previously. Now that New Line have finally got The Hobbit movie confirmed, it's a good time to force them into a corner. If they do indeed owe the Tolkien Estate royalties, giving them a "pay up or lose the rights to The Hobbit" ultimatum, may just force New Line's hand. To be honest, I don't think New Line can afford to lose The Hobbit. It's the only production they've got in the pipeline that could really save them. It does make you wonder how New Line has managed all these years, seeing how recent events have hardly shown them in the most flattering light!
*Jazminatar the Brown*
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 11 2008, 9:33pm
Post #10 of 342
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Here are the replies to your Off Topic thread:
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Jazmine
Where does this leave The Hobbit movie??
I'm getting that sinking feeling... this does not bode well for the movie!
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burrahobbit
That might be a showstopper...
What do you make of the timing? I mean if New Line haven't been paying up the Tolkien Estate could have filed this years ago. Have they been forced to do this because New Line might be folding? Or does the prospect of The Hobbit film give them leaverage to force the issue?
The lines "the plaintiffs have a right to terminate any further rights New Line may have to the Tolkien works under the agreements, including The Hobbit, due to the serious and material nature of the breach of the agreements" are pretty blunt.
There's a similar newsarticle on marketwire:
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=819744
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Jazmine
Timing:
Yes, I too questioned the timing. It mentioned in the article that the Tolkien Estate has attempted, unsuccessfully to deal with this previously. Now that New Line have finally got The Hobbit movie confirmed, it's a good time to force them into a corner. If they do indeed owe the Tolkien Estate royalties, giving them a "pay up or lose the rights to The Hobbit" ultimatum, may just force New Line's hand. To be honest, I don't think New Line can afford to lose The Hobbit. It's the only production they've got in the pipeline that could really save them.
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I'll head back to Off Topic now and delete the thread for you.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Feb 11 2008, 9:34pm)
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Altaira
Superuser
Feb 11 2008, 9:34pm
Post #11 of 342
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What do you make of the timing? I mean if New Line haven't been paying up the Tolkien Estate could have filed this years ago. Have they been forced to do this because New Line might be folding? Or does the prospect of The Hobbit film give them leaverage to force the issue?
The lines "the plaintiffs have a right to terminate any further rights New Line may have to the Tolkien works under the agreements, including The Hobbit, due to the serious and material nature of the breach of the agreements" are pretty blunt.
There's a similar newsarticle on marketwire:
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=819744
(cut & pasted from a similar thread, deleted by request)
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
TORn Calendar
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 11 2008, 9:35pm
Post #12 of 342
(20551 views)
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Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Elven
Valinor
Feb 11 2008, 9:46pm
Post #13 of 342
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I just posted a huge post and the thread went ... arrrghhh!!
but I think if New Line has moved on the Hobbit so quickly, it might have been on demand of people wanting it, but that they needed to hold the rights to it before the lease ran out ... and have this already up and running before they were sued. Im sure there has been rumblings that they were aware that this was coming ...
Even though NL lease the rights to the film, presently no one else can have them, but with the lawsuit pending, they may declare themselves bankrupt instead of just paying this out and going through the motions.
Things are happening, and changes are being mentioned much too closely to the bone ...
Maybe the writers strike is not as critcally impacting, to do with the fact that there is little news thats concrete about the Hobbit ... its all 99%, like Del Toro Directing ... and seems very suspicious to me behind the scenes ... we'll never know exactly the motivation ... but here's where the timing will go awol for the schedule release dates ... Im wondering if there is more to come then ...
Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ...
Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ...
Tolkien was a Capricorn!
The Hobbit!!
Its a Happening Thing!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn
Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ...
Whom do you serve!"
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Feb 11 2008, 10:01pm
Post #14 of 342
(20580 views)
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*furious nail biting and cursing*
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  don't mess things up for me, you greedy ba$tards (on both sides of the suit). I am already scheduling my 2010 Istari gala and salivating over the PROSPECT of forthcoming plot news and set/costume pictures.  I will happily kick somebody's ( also to be read as anybodys as needed) a$$ if it looks like they are going to mess things up. The writer's guild arrow has been doged, I am already making threats to The actors Guild and Industry. . . now this crap. NO!
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Feb 11 2008, 10:06pm
Post #15 of 342
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I've about had it with New Line.
"Sir are you classified as human?"
"Negative! I am a meat popsicle!"
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Altaira
Superuser
Feb 11 2008, 10:16pm
Post #16 of 342
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They'll let New Line produce The Hobbit before giving them a tug on their leash. They need to realise that The Hobbit is going to be big, and will make a major impact on the box office. If they want to limit New Line, fine, but if they're smart, they'll let them make The Hobbit first.
(from deleted thread on movie)
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
TORn Calendar
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Donry
Tol Eressea
Feb 11 2008, 11:20pm
Post #17 of 342
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seeing the studios finally getting called on a lot of this stuff. They've gotten away with it for too long. Or at least that's what I've been led to believe. No numbers or stats to back it up!
What's the matter, James? No glib remark? No pithy comeback?"
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 11 2008, 11:28pm
Post #18 of 342
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This article says the Hobbit films could be affected:
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According to AP the lawsuit seeks US$150 million in compensatory damages, unspecified punitive damages and a court order giving the Tolkien estate the right to terminate any rights New Line may have to make films based on other works by the author.
Given that plans are already in place to begin work on a two-film prequel based on Tolkien's The Hobbit, the lawsuit could prove disasterous for New Line, if successful.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/...mp;objectid=10491990
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Peredhil lover
Valinor
Feb 11 2008, 11:55pm
Post #19 of 342
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Tolkien Estate and Harper Collins, too? And they *never* got any money, though New Line made so much profit? Now I don't know if to laugh or cry - Shaye and Lynne seem to have outdone themselves in 'creative accounting' and now the bombs are exploding all over the place ... no wonder their books have vanished!
On the one hand, Shaye and Lynne certainly do deserve this new trouble, as they brought it to themselves. But now I am worried about the Hobbit movies. If I understand it correctly, Tolkien Estate and Harper Collins could take the rights for the Hobbit back!? I certainly hope they find a solution ...
Am I the only one to wonder how many others New Line has betrayed, too?
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 11 2008, 11:58pm
Post #20 of 342
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for me to view New Line as the Ultimate Villain when they were the ones who saved the LOTR films from being a single movie and instead let PJ do them as a trilogy.
I haven't liked what I've heard around the brouhaha between PJ and New Line regarding the accounts, but we do have three pretty fine films to enjoy while all this wrangling is going on between the various parties.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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kareniel
Lorien
Feb 12 2008, 12:11am
Post #21 of 342
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the road is not going "ever on and on" too smoothly, is it? I hate quarreling and squabbling - too much wasted energy and time. Come on, guys! We're getting cranky here!
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Feb 12 2008, 12:18am
Post #22 of 342
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According to AP the lawsuit seeks US$150 million in compensatory damages, unspecified punitive damages and a court order giving the Tolkien estate the right to terminate any rights New Line may have to make films based on other works by the author. Given that plans are already in place to begin work on a two-film prequel based on Tolkien's The Hobbit, the lawsuit could prove disasterous for New Line, if successful. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/...mp;objectid=10491990
Well well... I foresee a delay... a delay that could bring PJ back to the director's seat.
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Peredhil lover
Valinor
Feb 12 2008, 12:21am
Post #23 of 342
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They made three great movies possible, that's true, and had the sense to give PJ a lot of freedom. That's certainly something to be thankful for.
But I have to admit, I'm becoming increasingly irritated with all these sues. One, I could live with. But there's one after the other, and that's casting a bad light on New Line, in my opinion. I doubt they are completely innocent. There has to have gone something seriously wrong, otherwise there would surely not so many take action against them.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Feb 12 2008, 12:55am
Post #24 of 342
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No benefit of the doubt for me
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New Line lost their credibility with me when they stole from PJ & crew. They may be "innocent" but at this point they're going to have to prove it - to me, of course not in a court of law. If this delays The Hobbit I'm going to be pissed.
I have a very sexy learning disability.
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 12 2008, 12:58am
Post #25 of 342
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The Estate can't possibly have any idea how much New Line made, so they put a number in the lawsuit and negotiate from there.
Note that the Estate sued New Line, but New Line hedged almost all their overseas profits, and they partnered with other companies (Sideshow, United Cutlery, etc.) for much of the merchandise sales. While it's quite possible that $6B was made from the movies, it wasn't made by New Line.
If the Estate really wants all the money it thinks it's owed, they would have to go after all the companies that licensed with New Line. Of course, the language of the lawsuit is "gross", but as we've learned, "gross profits" has multiple meanings in the Hollywood accounting world.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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