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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 27 2014, 10:34pm
Post #1 of 38
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Maeglin fan club
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So It seems I am the only one in his fan club so I thought I would organize a little post for anyone who wants to chime in on this usually disliked character.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
May 28 2014, 12:52am
Post #2 of 38
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Ok.... What is it you like about him?/
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 3:15am
Post #3 of 38
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I love his character because he is interesting
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Mostly because for someone who is a traitor it was all based off of love for Idril.. His childhood before he came to Gondolin was also really rough. I just find his character so full of potential and only wish there was more development in such a twisted an warped character. A child that never knew low and acted out for it. I love physiology and dark characters and he justs fascinates me! 
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 3:17am
Post #4 of 38
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He is also a character that is very often overlooked even though his choices made a tremendous impact
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noWizardme
Half-elven
May 28 2014, 11:00am
Post #5 of 38
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Tolkien "bad guys" - not your standard fantasy villians
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One of the things I like about Tolkien is that he often characterises his bad guys very well. It becomes clear why they do what they do - it seems to stem naturally from that person's character , rather than the author's plot needs. A lot of fantasy doesn't' do that - there are good guys & bad guys so that they can have a battle. But why are they good or bad? "I don't know, go ask your dad." *
*sorry: many years of reading Dr Suess bedtime stories affects me sometimes....(One Fish, Two Fish, in this case)
~~~~~~
"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine
"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"
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Maciliel
Valinor
May 28 2014, 1:17pm
Post #6 of 38
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i wouldn't necessarily call maeglin one of my favorites, but i do find him very interesting, on a number of levels.
he strikes me as another version of feanor. tolkien may have found it useful to have another character who was mightily gifted, fell far, and was the downfall of so many. maeglin, like feanor, had troubled parentage. on top of that, maeglin had a strange and (it seems to me) twisted upbringing. i would +love+ for tolkien to give more author thoughts on maeglin.
maeglin certainly had a rich life (but not all those riches were enviable). he was captured by morgoth, was the scion of one of the most powerful elven kingdoms (and the most powerful remaining at the time), was incredibly skilled with craft and lore, and had charismatic powers.
his mother, whom i have no doubt he loved very much, was killed before his eyes. similarly to feanor, perhaps he felt immense guilt in her death, as his murderous father was aiming for him (if elves killing elves was so unusual and unthinkable, what do we say of an elf who was trying to kill his own child?).
ooooooo, i do love a good maeglin discussion. let's go! : )
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
(This post was edited by Maciliel on May 28 2014, 1:18pm)
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 1:57pm
Post #7 of 38
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So lets start with the obvious question love or lust? Dd he love Idril or did he just desire her? Was Maeglin capable of love?
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IdrilLalaith
Rivendell
May 28 2014, 6:07pm
Post #8 of 38
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One of the things that I find very interesting is that apparently Maeglin never actually said anything to anyone about loving Idril. Idril could tell because she was so perceptive. I don't think Turgon ever knew it, though.
I was reading through Morgoth's Ring the other night and I found something really interesting. "[Among Elves] 'first cousins', as we should say, might marry, but seldom did so, or desired to do so, unless one of the parents of each were far-sundered in kin." Idril and Maeglin certainly would have qualified for this exception, since her mother was a Vanya and his father was one of the Sindarin.
I know there's a very late essay on Maeglin (I believe it was published in People's of Middle-earth) that I have yet to read. For those who have read it, did Tolkien tone down the "twisted" nature of Maeglin's desire for his cousin?
TolkienBlog.com
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Ihearthee
The Shire
May 28 2014, 7:04pm
Post #9 of 38
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IdrilLalaith, I believe the essay you speak of is in The War of the Jewels, I will read it and see if I can find anything.
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 7:56pm
Post #10 of 38
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I don't own either of these books but it sounds great. Waiting eagerly to hear what you discover.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
May 28 2014, 8:44pm
Post #11 of 38
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My own opinion is he wanted to possess her the way his father possessed Aredhel. It wasn't love in the sense of two people being attracted to and enjoying each other. Or even one-sided, unrequited love, where you admire the other person so much and think they'll fill up all the empty spots in your heart and they don't know you exist--I don't think it was romantic like that. But i never give Maeglin much credit, so I'm biased.
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Ihearthee
The Shire
May 28 2014, 8:56pm
Post #12 of 38
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Unfortunately that chapter of The War Of The Jewels does not mention much of Idril  I will look through some of the other histories though, and DaughterofLaketown, I had posted some thoughts of Maeglin on an earlier post you made about him if that would help, and does anyone know anything about the wife of Turgon?
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Ihearthee
The Shire
May 28 2014, 8:59pm
Post #13 of 38
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CuriousG, I think those are some good thoughts on the matter, thank you.
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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea
May 28 2014, 9:09pm
Post #14 of 38
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I totally see the Gondolin soap opera from him and his mother's point of view. He's such a nice dark, complex character somewhere between a villain and a tragic anti-hero.
But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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Ihearthee
The Shire
May 28 2014, 9:45pm
Post #15 of 38
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Since Maeglin is similar to his father in many ways, could you share some of your thoughts about Eöl as well, in my opinion he is just as interesting and mysterious, it was mentioned in The War Of The Jewels that Eöl could have been a slave in Angband at one point, that might explain his use of poisoned weapons.
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 9:50pm
Post #16 of 38
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With a passion. But I love Maeglin. On the surface this would not seem to make sense but to me Ol was already beyond redemption. His purpose in luring Aerdhel into the forest had sinister intentions from the beginning. Maeglin had the chance to be a good person who learned from his father's mistakes. And yes I do believe it could have been real love that he felt for Idril. I still don't understand why it was considered incestous.
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 9:50pm
Post #17 of 38
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I totally see the Gondolin soap opera from him and his mother's point of view. He's such a nice dark, complex character somewhere between a villain and a tragic anti-hero.
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 9:55pm
Post #18 of 38
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Also I hope you don't mind faenoriel, but under your profile it says
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one of your favorite characters is Sauron. I realize he is not a popular character to like but I find it really cool you like him. Would you care to share why you do?
(This post was edited by DaughterofLaketown on May 28 2014, 9:56pm)
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 9:59pm
Post #19 of 38
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I happen to find Melkor very interesting
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I know he is the ultimate evil in Tolkien's world but he was such a human character in the Silmarillion. Clearly I am drawn to the dark characters. But I wouldnt want to start a riot by haveing a Morgoth fan club. *Dodging flames* I also prefer to call him Melkor to distinguish between his orginal character and his changed character, the same way I differentiate between satan and lucifer.
(This post was edited by DaughterofLaketown on May 28 2014, 10:00pm)
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Ihearthee
The Shire
May 28 2014, 10:05pm
Post #20 of 38
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I agree many of Eöl's deeds were dark, but not as dark as letting the destruction of an entire city happen, if Maeglin loved Idril he would have defended her home and the people of Gondolin.
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 10:16pm
Post #21 of 38
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You make a good point that Maeglin should have stayed with Idril and her people. Perhaps then his loyalty
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Might have been rewarded. And yes the blame does lie at Maeglin's door for the deaths of all those people. But was Eol's one deed of cruelty really any better? I guess it is just an opinion of whether total annihilation of a group of people or rape is worse. Honestly I could never decide that in a million years. They are both atrocious. Bit then if Maeglin had been allowed to freely pursue Idril without taint of incest he would not have had to turn to Morgoth for help in taking her. His sole motivation for revealing the city whereabouts was for Idril's hand in marriage.
(This post was edited by DaughterofLaketown on May 28 2014, 10:16pm)
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Ihearthee
The Shire
May 28 2014, 10:34pm
Post #22 of 38
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I did not mean to start a debate of evil deeds, but I feel this should be looked at from Idril's point of view as well, especially if she had no love for him, and what her life would be like if he did have her hand in marriage.
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
May 28 2014, 11:01pm
Post #23 of 38
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That's where the rub is. Lol. Idril didn't love him back. She was afraid of him and in love with Tuor instead.
(This post was edited by DaughterofLaketown on May 28 2014, 11:02pm)
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
May 28 2014, 11:30pm
Post #24 of 38
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Yes. Neither he nor Eöl knew the first thing about real love.
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Both were all about possession and control.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on May 28 2014, 11:31pm)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
May 28 2014, 11:59pm
Post #25 of 38
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Yes, and he wouldn't have tried to kill her son too. //
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Great!
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