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SirDennisC
Half-elven
May 17 2014, 9:17pm
Post #1 of 157
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The Dilemna Dilemma
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Today on Wire Tap, Jonathan Goldstein discussed the "The Dilemna Dilemma"... without giving too much away, let's just say a significant number of people spell the word one way or the other.
Without Googling, whom do you serve?
Further reading.
* okay smarty pants: consider first the prefix "di" suggests that it is a difficult choice between two things.
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Starling
Half-elven
May 17 2014, 9:46pm
Post #2 of 157
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Why on earth would anyone spell dilemma with an n on purpose? I have never heard of that or seen it before.
This is definitely the most confusing poll I have ever seen on TORn. All a bit much for my Sunday morning. 
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
May 18 2014, 12:12am
Post #3 of 157
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Never heard or say it spelt that way...
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'Dilemma' was always the natural way for me and my kin. Granted, I did mis-spell 'presciption', 'suprise 'perjorative' for the longest time,and I also spell these words differently than most of my peers: 'honour', 'colour', and 'armour'.
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
May 18 2014, 2:08am
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Yes. It's in fact a "dilemma/dilemna."
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When I said a significant number of people spell it one way or the other, that's a true fact. It's noteworthy because only one way is the correct way. Yet somehow the other way (i.e. the incorrect way) made its way into usage by at least 10 percent of English speakers, across several generations, and all over the world.
It doesn't get any more serious than that.
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
May 18 2014, 2:15am
Post #5 of 157
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here and decide if you prefer UK or US English.
For our purposes though, as I said to Starling, the dilemma dilemna spans generations and continents.
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
May 18 2014, 2:59am
Post #6 of 157
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My spelling is quite eclectic...
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Most of my reading assignments were English (Read: British) Literature, and since I was a voracious reader, they left an indelible mark on my spelling habits.
I'd say that I prefer to include the dropped u's, reverse 'r' and 'e' in 'Theatre' when it refers to the professional art or performance, as well as capitalising it. In forming verbs with -ise/-ize I am ambivalent. I also add the extra e's in 'encyclopaedia', 'axe' and 'likeable'. For the rest, I'd say it varies: I write 'siphon' and 'tire' yet also prefer 'cypher' and 'flyer' ('flyer', as in an advert), and usually double any consonant to add -ing (worshipping), but there are exceptions (reveling).
I've never heard of this spelling variant, and at first, thought it a hoax. I am genuinely surprised to hear how widespread this spelling is. It is even present in Robinson Crusoe:
In this Dilemna, as I was very pensive, I stept into the Cabin, and sat me down.
I suppose I assumed it was an archaism like 'stept'.
Could it be a false connexion drawn to the words 'indemn(ify)' and 'condemn(ation)'? In the long forms of these words, the 'n' is pronounced. Could that be the difference?
Most interesting!!
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
May 18 2014, 3:03am
Post #7 of 157
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I've never heard of it being spelled with an "n".
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I am therefore completely unfazed (not phased) by this apparemnt spelling crisis. 
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 18 2014, 3:29pm
Post #8 of 157
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There is only one correct spelling, as far as I can tell.
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d - i - l - e - m - m - a
I find no evidence for an acceptable alternative spellling, either modern or archaic. What kind of illiterate fool is this Jonathan Goldstein to even bring up this subject?
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 18 2014, 3:34pm)
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Annael
Immortal
May 18 2014, 3:56pm
Post #10 of 157
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Frankly, my dear, I don't give a . . .
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one wonders if the word "damn" played a role?
RIght now my issue is all the people who have started putting a comma before a person's name when there is absolutely no grammatical reason to do so! "Program Directer, Elena Chodhaury has just won . . ." etc. Drives me nuts, and it's getting more and more widespread. I assume people see someone else do it and imitate them.
I can hear my mother muttering "if all your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it?"
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Magpie
Immortal
May 18 2014, 4:00pm
Post #11 of 157
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does that make me an illiterate fool
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for thinking it was 'mna'?
On a whim I used onelook.com to search for other words with a similar ending, thinking I must have confused it with another word.
That site lists dilemna as a word! If you click on it, it takes you to a page that indicates it's common misspelling of dilemma. There's a redirect page for "Prisoner's dilemna" at wikipedia. That's all a sure sign that lots of people misspell it.
Comments on various sites indicate that many people have thought their whole life it was 'mna'. People report that they were taught the wrong spelling in school. Googling 'dilemna' will bring up lots of articles that discuss this widespread misspelling and try to figure out why it's so widespread. It's not a 'mistake' in the sense that people confuse there - their - they're. It's an issue of people being convinced it's spelled 'dilemna.'
Lots of people.
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Magpie
Immortal
May 18 2014, 4:06pm
Post #12 of 157
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Some of us learned our grammar in 1962
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That was a long time ago. I do my best, but I get it wrong more often than I like.
I actually learned grammar by diagramming sentences.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 18 2014, 4:06pm
Post #13 of 157
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Hey, you didn't bring it up over the public air waves. The site you cite (sorry!) does acknowledge that dilemna is a misspelling and not an acceptable alternative.
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Magpie
Immortal
May 18 2014, 4:07pm
Post #14 of 157
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I think I read a column about this last autumn
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:-)
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
May 18 2014, 5:45pm
Post #15 of 157
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That the misspelling was skipped because mn looks a lot like mm is one of the theories of dilemna's persistence.
(It took me a while to spot that you were in fact making a comnent.)
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
May 18 2014, 5:51pm
Post #16 of 157
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As with Darkstone's comnent, that mn where the n is silent is used in other familiar words is another of the theories for dilemna's staying power.
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
May 18 2014, 5:54pm
Post #17 of 157
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However because a significant number of people spell it the wrong way -- 15% of our poll respondents so far -- it's a proper dilemma.
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
May 18 2014, 6:10pm
Post #18 of 157
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I've always found dilemna to be an acceptable spelling... However I have a stronger sense that I've always spelled it "dilema."
A search of dilemna on TORn reveals it's been used 15 times (outside of this thread) since the new board was made (dilemna link) vs 459 times for the correct spelling (dilemma link).
Incidentally, a search for "dilema" yields 23 results by members, our friends Otaku-sempai and Larry counted among them (dilema link).
Curiouser and curiouser.
(This post was edited by SirDennisC on May 18 2014, 6:13pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 18 2014, 6:18pm
Post #19 of 157
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Incidentally, a search for "dilema" yields 23 results by members, our friends Otaku-sempai and Larry counted among them ( dilema link).
I will admit to getting sloppy from time to time. I also suspect that at least some incidents of delemna are simple typographical errors rather than examples of deliberate usage.
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
May 18 2014, 6:28pm
Post #20 of 157
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People try to look more intelligent by using half-remembered rules, and they end up adding commas, semicolons, and other notation where they needn't. One other grammatical error I see quite often is 'me vs. I':
Peter and I went to the store.
vs.
Peter and me went to the store.
They write/say the first, which is correct, but second-guessing themselves, they go for the odd sounding and incorrect 'me', because they think it should be obscure and hard to remember. I also see it in the object of a sentence:
He told Peter and I to go to the store
vs.
He told Peter and me to go to the store
Learning sentence diagrams was very helpful, now that I look back at it with affectionate loathing.
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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
May 18 2014, 10:03pm
Post #21 of 157
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and I can honestly say I've never seen "esthetic, esthetically" etc. in my whole life and didn't even know such a spelling option existed! I asked my husband, too, and he just pulled a "what the heck??" face when I told him about dropping the 'a'.
There were quite a few other words --particularly the ones with the doubled consonants-- that I feel I've seen spelled both ways equally as much and could go either way. I'm curious how they determined some of these.
Generally, it seems that the US spellings are a bit more concise, dropping some unnecessary/silent letters or changing to a more phonetic spelling (though considering how many extra letters and such we still have, that's not saying much  )
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Annael
Immortal
May 19 2014, 2:54pm
Post #22 of 157
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I tell people to get rid of the other person
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So "Peter and me went to the store" becomes "Me went to the store," and they get that it's wrong.
Same with the people (very common in business I find) who write or say "ask Peter or myself if you have questions."
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Darkstone
Immortal
May 19 2014, 3:02pm
Post #23 of 157
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A piece columnal at a time autumnal?
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The Sounds of Silence
Did you know,
That silent letters,
Sometimes have a sound?
In "signal" you hear a "g",
In "sign" you don't.
In "bombard" you hear a "b",
In "bomb" you won't.
In "crumble" you hear a b,
In "crumb" you can't.
In "twins" you hear a "w",
In "two" you shan't.
The fact that silent letters can be heard,
Does this not strike you as absurd?
-Doreen Scott-Dunne
(This post was edited by Darkstone on May 19 2014, 3:04pm)
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Darkstone
Immortal
May 19 2014, 3:32pm
Post #24 of 157
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..."damnation"?
My latest mal du mot is what seems to be a growing trend to use "to" for "too". Is saving one character that important?
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
May 19 2014, 3:48pm
Post #25 of 157
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No silent n there... seems like a word... huh.
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