Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Did Isildur's actions lead to a 'Golden Age' of the Three Rings?

Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


May 3 2014, 9:15pm

Post #1 of 9 (361 views)
Shortcut
Did Isildur's actions lead to a 'Golden Age' of the Three Rings? Can't Post

Please discuss.


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


May 3 2014, 10:02pm

Post #2 of 9 (277 views)
Shortcut
Why do you mean by golden age? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you mean a heightened importance and peril involving these powerful objects yes I would think so. If you mean a time of peace and prosperity resulting of these rings existing no I don't think so.


Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


May 3 2014, 10:47pm

Post #3 of 9 (277 views)
Shortcut
Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't exactly mean either of those things, although the "time of peace and prosperity" specifically within the confines of Rivendell and Lórien (and perhaps the Grey Havens, IDK) might be at least partly applicable. Here's the theory:

1) The Elves, once they become aware of Sauron's Ring, cannot use the Great Rings for any purposes, but they are spirited away and kept safe and out of the wrong hands.
2) Once Sauron is vanquished at the beginning of the TA, and once Isildur has taken (and lost) the One Ring, the Elves are able to use their rings for their own purposes.
3) Elrond uses Vilya to enhance Rivendell and make it the amazing place that it is by the late TA; Galadriel uses Nenya to establish and maintain Lórien as the amazing realm we know it to be; Círdan and Gandalf perhaps use Narya for...whatever they do with Narya.
4) After the War of the Ring and the destruction of the One, Rivendell and Lothlórien begin to fade and the notable elves pass into the West.

So, we have a period of time, the Third Age, in which the Three Rings are used for positive purposes because the One is not possessed by Sauron, not possessed by some other being of dominant will, and not destroyed. This period of time is what one might term a "Golden Age", at least for Rivendell and Lórien in the elevated status allowed by their respective Great Rings.

This period of awakening of the powers of the Three would seem to me to be possible only as a result of Isildur's actions.


(This post was edited by Harold.of.Whoa on May 3 2014, 10:48pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 4 2014, 12:22am

Post #4 of 9 (283 views)
Shortcut
The Watchful Peace might be considered a Golden Age. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Watchful Peace from TA 2063 to 2460 was the period when Sauron fled Dol Guldur to avoid detection by Gandalf and remained hidden in the East while the Nazgul stayed quiet in Minas Morgul. This period wasn't trouble-free (what era is?), Eriador was threatened by Wargs and other creatures; but, it was relatively peaceful.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


squire
Half-elven


May 4 2014, 12:35am

Post #5 of 9 (284 views)
Shortcut
It would seem so, but I think the answer is 'not really'. [In reply to] Can't Post

If I understand your question, you are asking whether most of the Third Age, between the loss of the One Ring (due to Isildur's taking of it, leading to its burial in the Anduin), and its discovery almost 3000 years later, was a 'Golden Age' for the Elven Rings. We might guess that because their owners could use the Rings' powers of preservation without being corrupted by the One, they could maintain their Elvish paradises in a state of perpetual harmony and peace.

Here is part of his epic Letter 131, in which he explains the entire legendarium to a possible publisher of LotR and the Silmarillion combined, back in the early 1950s:
In the [Elvish decision to stay in Middle-earth after the fall of Morgoth] we see a sort of second fall or at least 'error' of the Elves. There was nothing wrong essentially in their lingering against counsel, still sadly with the mortal lands of their old heroic deeds. But they wanted to have their cake without eating it. They wanted the peace and bliss and perfect memory of 'The West', and yet to remain on the ordinary earth where their prestige as the highest people, above wild Elves, dwarves, and Men, was greater than at the bottom of the hierarchy of Valinor. They thus became obsessed with 'fading', the mode in which the changes of time (the law of the world under the sun) was perceived by them. They became sad, and their art (shall we say) antiquarian, and their efforts all really a kind of embalming – even though they also retained the old motive of their kind, the adornment of earth, and the healing of its hurts. We hear of a lingering kingdom, in the extreme North-west more or less in what was left in the old lands of The Silmarillion, under Gilgalad; and of other settlements, such as Imladris (Rivendell) near Elrond; and a great one at Eregion at the Western feet of the Misty Mountains... But many of the Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. Sauron found their weak point in suggesting that, helping one another, they could make Western Middle-earth as beautiful as Valinor. It was really a veiled attack on the gods, an incitement to try and make a separate independent paradise. Gilgalad repulsed all such overtures, as also did Elrond. But at Eregion great work began – and the Elves came their nearest to falling to 'magic' and machinery. With the aid of Sauron's lore they made Rings of Power ('power' is an ominous and sinister word in all these tales, except as applied to the gods). - J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter 131, ca. late 1951, bold by squre.

Now, notice that this is during the Second Age, not the Third -- that this description of the Elves' attitude and motives explains their creation of the Elvish Rings of Power, not the results of that creation. In other words, the Elvish Rings were a consequence, not a cause, of the Elvish loss of motivation in Middle-earth. Of course, as we know, the creation of the Rings led to the counter-stroke of the creation of the One, and to a raging war between Sauron and the Elves, settled by the intervention of Numenor and a kind of Cold War, unmediated by the hidden Elvish Rings, until the end when Sauron goes down but takes Numenor with him. So as it turns out the creation of the Three was for nothing during the remainder of the Second Age. All that talk of 'embalming' remains just talk, until the One can be overcome or neutralized. In fact, that only happens when the Second Age ends with a bang. Surely - as you asked in your post - the loss of the One due to Sauron's dissolution must have freed up the Three to let them work their magic? Surely, during the Third Age that followed the (apparent) destruction of Sauron, the Elves (i.e., Galadriel, Elrond, and Cirdan and their peoples) achieved their dream of a Golden Age via the power of their Rings? Here's what Tolkien says in the same letter, continuing his commentary:
The Second Age ends with the Last Alliance (of Elves and Men), and the great siege of Mordor. It ends with the overthrow of Sauron and destruction of the second visible incarnation of evil. But at a cost, and with one disastrous mistake. Gilgalad and Elendil are slain in the act of slaying Sauron. Isildur, Elendil's son, cuts die ring from Sauron's hand, and his power departs, and his spirit flees into the shadows. But the evil begins to work. Isildur claims the Ring as his own, as 'the Weregild of his father', and refuses to cast it into the Fire nearby. He marches away, but is drowned in the Great River, and the Ring is lost, passing out of all knowledge. But it is not unmade, and the Dark Tower built with its aid still stands, empty but not destroyed. So ends the Second Age with the coming of the Númenórean realms and the passing of the last kingship of the High Elves. The Third Age is concerned mainly with the Ring. The Dark Lord is no longer on his throne, but his monsters are not wholly destroyed, and his dreadful servants, slaves of the Ring, endure as shadows among the shadows. Mordor is empty and the Dark Tower void, and a watch is kept upon the borders of the evil land. The Elves still have hidden refuges: at the Grey Havens of their ships, in the House of Elrond, and elsewhere. ... The Ring is lost, for ever it is hoped; and the Three Rings of the Elves, wielded by secret guardians, are operative in preserving the memory of the beauty of old, maintaining enchanted enclaves of peace where Time seems to stand still and decay is restrained, a semblance of the bliss of the True West. - ibid., bold by squre.

So, on first reading, Tolkien seems to suggest that the Elves did, in fact, achieve a kind of 'Golden Age' in the Third Age. But as I understand the story, he is being ironic; it's not a 'Golden Age' at all, because of the nature of the Elven Rings. The Rings' power of preservation is essentially negative, or backwards-looking. The Three Rings institutionalize a benign but passive nostalgia for, essentially, the First Age - for the real 'Golden Age' when the Eldar still resided in Valinor and communed with the Gods (Valar). What is missing in the Third Age is any real Elvish creativity: new art, new thoughts, new music, new directions. In mythical memory, a Golden Age is dynamic, but the Elven realms of Lothlorien, Rivendell, and the Havens are static - the word Tolkien memorably uses is "embalmed". There's nothing Golden about a preserved corpse, I think, unless we want to look to another parable of misplaced longing for the impossible: the example of King Midas's daughter!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.

(This post was edited by squire on May 4 2014, 12:37am)


Glassary
Rivendell


May 5 2014, 2:09am

Post #6 of 9 (228 views)
Shortcut
thanks Squire for the background [In reply to] Can't Post

Fascinated by the thought of the 3rd age being more of an preserving or stasis of elven ways.
Always thought it interesting that when Tolkien talked of the great craftmenship or creations of
the elves it was from prior ages.


Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


May 6 2014, 1:26am

Post #7 of 9 (204 views)
Shortcut
Excellent! [In reply to] Can't Post

Beautiful post, Squire! Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I guess one's definition of a Golden Age would be a factor in all of this. I was referring mostly to the concept of the Three at long last being employed for the purposes for which they were created, and being influential in the history of Middle-earth.

It seems like the realms that were influenced/protected/powered by the Three Rings were pockets of stability unlike anything to be found elsewhere in Middle-earth in the Third Age. Surely, from a common perspective, it has to be more than some unhealthy nostalgia, this preservation of things like lore and beauty and a 'spiritual' connection to the "True West" in an age where these things are falling by the wayside.


squire
Half-elven


May 6 2014, 2:39am

Post #8 of 9 (203 views)
Shortcut
I think it's a case of "The End does not justify the Means" [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course you're right that it would seem that the preservation of "lore and beauty" in an age of decadence should not be scorned by us. But as I interpret Tolkien's point, it was not the preservation as such that was wrong, but the means whereby it was accomplished: through "Power". As he notes in the text I quoted in my earlier post, in Middle-earth Power is a bad thing when exercised by anyone but the Gods. The Elves' preservation of the ancient beauties was via force -- by the magic of the Rings rather than through anyone's natural efforts. The Elves, it would seem, had no right to make immortal the things they loved while living in a mortal land; they were going against the very laws of nature that they may have imagined were the sources of their art.

For one thing, they were committing the sin of ownership. Contrast their desire to preserve their artworks to the lesson taught by the greatest maker of all, the Vala Aulë. In one of the most important passages of The Silmarillion, at the very beginning of the world, we learn that
"the delight and pride of Aulë is in the deed of making, and in the thing made, and neither in possession nor in his own mastery; wherefore he gives and hoards not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work." (JRRT, Sil, "Ainulindale")


For another thing, those who live by power shall die by power. By investing the preservation of their realms and cultures in their Rings of Power, no matter how noble they imagined their reasons to be, the Elves risked domination by the even greater Power of Sauron and his One Ring. As Elrond puts it in LotR, for even the most casual reader to contemplate:
"Those who made [the Elvish Rings] did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow. But all that has been wrought by those who wield the Three will turn to their undoing, and their minds and hearts will become revealed to Sauron, if he regains the One. It would be better if the Three had never been." (LotR II.2, italics by squire)
Could there be any better comment than Elrond's here on the idea that the Third Age was a "Golden Age" of Elvish culture?

Tolkien was hardly a friend of modernity, but one of his deepest lessons is found in this theme of his great tale. If I might put it in the words of another writer from the disillusionment of the Great War: "you can't go home again".



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


May 6 2014, 3:39am

Post #9 of 9 (239 views)
Shortcut
Mixed messages [In reply to] Can't Post

I perceive (at least in LotR) this theme of the contrasting approaches to the struggles of life and the sorrows of the world - preservation (embalming, cutting one's losses) vs. renewal (growth, birth, re-birth, healing). I also get Tolkien's obvious endorsement of the latter.

That's why I find it so odd that Aragorn, generally an agent of renewal (think of the sapling for Minas Tirith), in one of the final acts of the entire story, opts to go the full Númenórean route in his passing from the world, choosing to leave behind a good-looking corpse, an image of splendor and glory. This seems like a tacit endorsement of embalming, and it occurs in the face of literal pleas from Arwen, who has sacrificed so much for love, to stay with her, in dotage or not.

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.