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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Will Jackson defend Smaug's actions in the EE Commentary?
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Scourge of the Stoors
Rivendell

Apr 25 2014, 4:04am

Post #1 of 32 (1369 views)
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Will Jackson defend Smaug's actions in the EE Commentary? Can't Post

In the climactic chase scene of DOS, Smaug appears to be out-witted by the dumbest of diversion tactics. I can accept things like letting Thorin stand on his snout, because he's obviously playing with his prey, but that part where they keep fooling him by shouting "over here!" is ridiculous.

Do you think that PJ will offer any kind of defense of this choice for Smaug?


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 25 2014, 5:17am

Post #2 of 32 (736 views)
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that's your opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

i'm sure PJ doesn't agree with it so no he'll probably not defend something that he believes doesn't need to be defended. Smaug almost killed a few of them, with his back leg one time and with his fire breathing another time.

The flames of war are upon you.


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 25 2014, 5:38am

Post #3 of 32 (718 views)
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I'm expecting that all through TABA, er, that is, BoFA... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that this Dwarf, and later that Dwarf, and then yet another will suddenly pause, then collapse into a pile of ash as each belatedly realizes that they were killed that night.

You know how PJ loves running gags.

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https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 25 2014, 6:42am

Post #4 of 32 (717 views)
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Was he outwitted? [In reply to] Can't Post

His biggest mistake was actually flying to Lake-town.

Smaug is just like a cat. Cats bring home mice, but not necessarily to eat. They usually bring them back to play with, at least my cats do. It's a sadistic game of Smaug's - he wants to be entertained. He's been lieing there for 60 years. And what better to have fun than keep the Dwarves running about Erebor. If he wanted them dead, he would've killed Bilbo there and then and waited for the Dwarves to appear. He could have blocked off the secret door and guarded the entrance - the Dwarves would have died sooner or later. He's manipulative, sly and cunning. Unfortunately, he shouldn't have fled to Lake-town. That's Smaug's biggest mistake.


Quote
Do you think that PJ will offer any kind of defense of this choice for Smaug?


Yes. Something like above.



Lindele
Gondor


Apr 25 2014, 1:38pm

Post #5 of 32 (578 views)
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the point was very clear [In reply to] Can't Post

to me that Smaug had crown over confident and lazy in all of his years laying in the mountain so it is completely justified that the dwarves would outwit him.
I hope PJ doesn't defend anything that doesn't need defending.

Now on the other hand I'd love to hear him explain why so many of the full CGI shots look worse than a 90's video game.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Apr 25 2014, 1:44pm

Post #6 of 32 (492 views)
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Nothing to defend there. Everything is fine. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


MorgolKing
Rivendell

Apr 25 2014, 1:56pm

Post #7 of 32 (505 views)
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Disagree...it was stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

"My claws are spears...my wings a hurricane!"

Then Smaug proceeds to run around like Wiley Coyote chasing the Roadrunner. Confused and dazed, can't decide who to chase...gives up going after dwarves within biting distance to fly over and chase someone who says "hey over here!" (cue the Benny Hill music).

Gets hit by clever cartoon antics like mine carts.

Flies off and says "I am fire...I am death"

Just can't help but roll your eyes.


Lindele
Gondor


Apr 25 2014, 2:01pm

Post #8 of 32 (484 views)
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see my above post [In reply to] Can't Post

that is the point


book Gandalf
Rohan


Apr 25 2014, 2:05pm

Post #9 of 32 (480 views)
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agree [In reply to] Can't Post

agree smaug was wasted, it could have been a defining moment in film history, like the passage in the book is.

i don't understand how someone as obviously skilled and intelligent as pj and the writers couldnt see how important it was not to over do the smaug sequence. and to keep it about WORDS, and fooling a cunning yet vain dragon, thats the whole point!!!

to fool a dragon with intelligence, not try to kill it with brawn, they ruined it

wasted. huge shame and sums up the well intentioned but wrong direction th efilms went.

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.

(This post was edited by book Gandalf on Apr 25 2014, 2:06pm)


tsmith675
Gondor


Apr 25 2014, 2:55pm

Post #10 of 32 (454 views)
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I'm starting to doubt you've ever played a 90s video game... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

Our destiny lies above us.


Lindele
Gondor


Apr 25 2014, 3:31pm

Post #11 of 32 (424 views)
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mostly true actually. [In reply to] Can't Post

but still there are some unfinished shots in there for sure.


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 25 2014, 3:34pm

Post #12 of 32 (422 views)
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Yay 90s video games! [In reply to] Can't Post

Star Craft, Civilization II. Goldeneye, Planescape:Torment, Baldur's Gate, Daggerfall, Master of Orion II, Shining Force II, and....

Fallout 2!!!

Yet, to a very large extent, it wasn't the graphics that made the game, but the story.

Today's gamers are far too hung up on graphics. So today they get games with great graphics but crappy stories.

Give me 90s graphics and a great story any time.

(Almost forgot: "Zombies Ate My Neighbors"!)

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NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 25 2014, 3:46pm

Post #13 of 32 (393 views)
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Great games!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

All of them.I am a huge Starcraft fan as well.Best list i have seen in whileSmile

"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 25 2014, 3:58pm

Post #14 of 32 (386 views)
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Great taste!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

You are obviously a gamer of great discernment.Smile

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(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 25 2014, 3:59pm)


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 25 2014, 4:13pm

Post #15 of 32 (371 views)
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Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

I would also add some adventure games like Gabriel Knight,Monkey Island,Day of The Tentacle,Syberia,Pandora Directive and a few more.

I was always a pc game lover.Smile

"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"


dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 25 2014, 4:17pm

Post #16 of 32 (424 views)
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Defend Smaug? [In reply to] Can't Post

You mean, explain why it was OK for Smaug to invade the mountain, kill dwarves, ruin Dale, nick the treasure....? Smaug has no defence. Smaug needs no defence. He's a dragon, that's what they do.

But if you're asking, will Peter Jackson defend himself, no, of course he won't. Why should he - he's done nothing wrong. Making a noise to distract something large and dangerous has probably saved a great many lives down the centuries. The reason it happens in stories is that it happens in life as well. It works.

The whole sequence of events was carefully thought out, and contains some brilliant moments and images. It is a huge departure from the book, and I can understand why anyone would reject it on those grounds, but love it or hate it, Peter Jackson doesn't owe anyone an apology for it - he meant it to be that way.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Apr 25 2014, 4:28pm

Post #17 of 32 (379 views)
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I feel pitty for Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book dragons have a really soft belly so they look for treasures to sleep upon and make their bellys stronger, he is just an animal acting the way he acts. Dwarves are too, hehehe well there wont be a drama

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Lindele
Gondor


Apr 25 2014, 4:28pm

Post #18 of 32 (376 views)
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exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

 


hamlet
Rivendell


Apr 25 2014, 5:04pm

Post #19 of 32 (363 views)
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Good observation! [In reply to] Can't Post

And let us not forget that in the Rankin-Bass animated "Hobbit," Smaug even looked like a gigantic fire-breathing cat. So there's that. . .


Annatar598
Rohan


Apr 25 2014, 6:11pm

Post #20 of 32 (330 views)
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I don't think a huge dragon could possibly have ever trampled or caught [In reply to] Can't Post

Those dwarves. Especially considering that the dwarves were on thing bridges all over the area (a very confined area).

It's like trying to swat flies I guess?

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


Annatar598
Rohan


Apr 25 2014, 6:12pm

Post #21 of 32 (327 views)
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Um, it kinda is a defining moment in film history [In reply to] Can't Post

When Smaug first comes up on screen.

Even the darn miserable critics who hated DOS in general thought Smaug and Bilbo was a masterfully crafted scene.

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Apr 25 2014, 8:52pm

Post #22 of 32 (260 views)
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This. [In reply to] Can't Post

I found his reaction to the golden statue of Thror is extremely cat like too.

The first time I watched this sequence I felt it went on a bit too long and disliked Thorin landing on Smaug's face but on my second viewing watching the dvd I didn't really have any problems.

Yes, my username is terrible.


burgahobbit
Rohan


Apr 26 2014, 1:51am

Post #23 of 32 (223 views)
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You are most correct [In reply to] Can't Post

But there is no excuse for the stupidity of the dwarves hiding behind the bars of the gates in the forge room as fire comes blazing past them, and then simply taking two steps forwards and acting as if the danger is over. Smaug is still right there, dwarves! He could turn you into a pile of ash within seconds and he just tried to do so!


Luckily for them, Smaug decided to smash through the gate instead (perhaps, as you suggest, because he didn't feel like he could enjoy their deaths as much from that side of the gate, and the original blast of flames was only sent because of rage and anger), but it just kills me how Ori and company just stand there and look up at Smaug as he breaks through. Sure these are the dumb dwarves who try to break down Beorn's doors when all they had to do was turn the handles...but still!


Anyway, one last gripe about the scene. When Smaug was pounding his head into the gate over and over again, it was absolutely unforgivable that Dori did not politely ask "Who is it?" Oh wait...wrong movie...wrong monster...wrong Dory. Sorry!

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because Im afraid, and he gives me courage. - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Apr 26 2014, 1:52am)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 26 2014, 2:18am

Post #24 of 32 (217 views)
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it wasn't stupidity [In reply to] Can't Post

smaug realized he was helping the dwarves by lighting the furnaces so he decided to break through the gate.


The flames of war are upon you..


BalrogTrainer
Rivendell

Apr 26 2014, 2:55pm

Post #25 of 32 (153 views)
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I personally always thought... [In reply to] Can't Post

... it was kind of a cheat that the Dwarves never actually had to confront Smaug in the book. They basically got Erebor back by dumb luck (due to Smaug thinking Bilbo is from Lake-town)... and one Lake-town resident taking care of the Dragon for them (at a great cost to the town). I don't think it was implausible that Smaug got outwitted by the Dwarves in DOS. After all, Thorin and Balin both presumably knew all the ins and outs of the mountain like the back of their hand and used them to their advantage. Obviously realizing this, Smaug instead goes off to take care of the more vulnerable Lake-town citizens instead and presumably come back and try again to deal with the Dwarves later once he laid waste the town.

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