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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
HUGE Announcement from Peter Jackson's facebook page TITLE CHANGE AND DOS EE
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 10:00pm

Post #176 of 337 (3165 views)
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That's true for some, not all. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was enchanted with LotR from the very first frame. I came out of the theater with my heart soaring. The same was true for TTT & RotK.

But I get what you're saying. These boards (and many others) were certainly populated with a large amount of criticism (though it certainly didn't seem to be shared by the general public or the critical community).

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Apr 24 2014, 10:03pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 10:04pm

Post #177 of 337 (3156 views)
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A belated welcome! [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to have you here.

(And I'm thinking a lot of the "the original Star Wars trilogy was PERFECT!" people will similarly change their stance about the prequels once Star Wars VII comes out.)

******************************************
https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 10:06pm

Post #178 of 337 (3154 views)
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just not true [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
every single even slightly derogatory (or sometimes not even particularly derogatory) remark about the TH films has increasingly been responded to with the same outrage, dismissal and blaming of the poster


I have made a number of posts expressing my disappointment in the films including all the faults I found with them. Only one has been met with resistance that I found unaccepting. Replies to the rest were all perfectly respectful and calm.

So either you're honestly mistaken in your assessment (which you could admit to) or perhaps this is just hyperbole to engage a more um.. 'spirited' debate. :-)



LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Patty
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 10:07pm

Post #179 of 337 (3163 views)
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Me, I would rather see a movie [In reply to] Can't Post

That stresses the heart of the story and is not aiming to make battles the prominent feature. Hopefully when the movie comes out that wont be the case but the title change IMHO is not a step in the right direction.

Permanent address: Into the West






Elizabeth
Half-elven


Apr 24 2014, 10:07pm

Post #180 of 337 (3230 views)
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It's a sellout because... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it represents a total change in emphasis, from Bilbo's journey of change and enlightenment to yet another shallow fan-boy action thriller. I am very disappointed (though not entirely surprised).








Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 10:11pm

Post #181 of 337 (3165 views)
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Letter #202 [In reply to] Can't Post

From a letter to Christopher and Faith Tolkien

11 September 1957

My heart and mind is in the Silmarillion, but I have not had much time for it. ....
It may amuse you to hear that (unsolicited) I suddenly found myself the winner of the International Fantasy Award, presented (as it says) 'as a fitting climax to the Fifteenth World Science Fiction Convention'. What it boiled down to was a lunch at the Criterion yesterday with speeches, and the handing over of an absurd 'trophy'. A massive metal 'model' of an upended Space-rocket (combined with a Ronson lighter). But the speeches were far more intelligent, especially that of the introducer: Clémence Dane, a massive woman of almost Sitwellian presence. Sir Stanley himself was present. Not having any immediate use for the trophy (save publicity=sales=cash) I deposited it in the window of 40 Museum Street. A back-wash from the Convention was a visit from an American film-agent (one of the adjudicating panel) who drove out all the way in a taxi from London to see me last week, filling 76 S[andfield] with strange men and stranger women -1 thought the taxi would never stop disgorging. But this Mr Ackerman brought some really astonishingly good pictures (Rackham rather than Disney) and some remarkable colour photographs. They have apparently toured America shooting mountain and desert scenes that seem to fit the story. The Story Line or Scenario was, however, on a lower level. In fact bad. But it looks as if business might be done. Stanley U. &: I have agreed on our policy : Art or Cash. Either very profitable terms indeed ; or absolute author's veto on objectionable features or alterations.

-JRR Tolkien

The Ackerman deal eventually fell through, but in the end he did sell the rights for cash and, as we know, by those terms the Tolkien Estate has no say in the films.

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https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah


Leaf of Mirkwood
Bree


Apr 24 2014, 10:13pm

Post #182 of 337 (3157 views)
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Yaay!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Lots of DOS Extended footage!! LaughLaugh So glad its going to be a good amount of extra!


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 10:13pm

Post #183 of 337 (3168 views)
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It might have. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I saw some posts to the effect that it wasn't worth it for 13 minutes - I don't know what to think as I assume it's the Hobbit fans who really want the EE, and would buy irregardless. Or not. I know I questioned whether I should bother for only 13 minutes, but ultimately glad I did and the Appendices were great, well worth it.


But I think the confusion about the MANY the different versions of the AUJ EE that were available and the MANY different places where you could only get ONE of the versions, may have contributed to it too.Wink I've never had to use a chart to figure out which version of a DVD to buy before.Crazy I still bought it though, and I'm glad I did.

I'll buy the DOS EE too, but I sure hope they limit the versions that are available. I mean, for crying out loud, why can't they just make all of the different formats identical and make them all available at all of the retailers? That's got to be easier than all of the "who-shot-john" they went through last time.Unimpressed


Quote
Am also a little startled at how far TABA seems to be along as far as being finished? I thought the cut PJ showed WB and the press would be extremely rough, but it sounds as though TABA is farther along than just a mock-up of scenes with a lot of green screens.

I've never understood all of the things that have to be done to make a movie, but I figure that anything they're showing WB at this point is probably an extremely rough cut. They may have a lot of the green screen stuff worked out, but even then it's probably just placeholder imagery until the final product is ready.

I'd say it's like if you compare the DOS trailer footage to the final movie. They have backgrounds in place so that they have something to show people, but by the time the movie is ready to be released, they've replaced a lot of it with different, more touched-up backgrounds.

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Apr 24 2014, 10:15pm

Post #184 of 337 (3169 views)
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This threads gone nutz. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I prefferred "There and Back Again" as the original title but I can understand the logic of the change. It would be nice if "There and Back Again" is spoken in the film or in the very least used as the title of a DVD boxset like Jackson suggested.

I don't see how changing the title is selling out or Un-Tolkien "Battle of the Five Armies" suggests action, but atleast it hasn't been named anything more generic or unrelated. We actually got a phrase by Tolkien in the title. If it had been named something like "The Hobbit: Total War" or something I think I could understand the outrage better but each to their own, different strokes for different folks and all that.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Thranderz
Rohan


Apr 24 2014, 10:25pm

Post #185 of 337 (3145 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see how so many people are actually criticising the film over a name change. Since when did a movie title affect it's content?

I simply walked into Mordor.


dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 24 2014, 10:27pm

Post #186 of 337 (3139 views)
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hopes for a share of the popcorn [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a bit like poking an ant's nest with a stick, isn't it.....

I've just finished writing a book, sort of. Hope to print it out tomorrow. I have a title. Publisher doesn't like it, wants another title. I shrugged shoulders, used my title for the final chapter (while quietly hoping to convert him once he's read the book. But if I can't, I can't. Funny things, titles..... It is the same book, though. I'm betting it's going to be the same film, too.

I've got used to TABA... but it's not as if 'The Battle of the Five Armies' isn't from Tolkien as well. I expect we'll all live...


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 10:30pm

Post #187 of 337 (3114 views)
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Lol. I think I'll join you. [In reply to] Can't Post

Here. I brought some soda to help wash the popcorn down.
Help yourself.Smile

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Elessar
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 10:33pm

Post #188 of 337 (3117 views)
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Highly disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

These are so far from action blockbusters. I kind of find that to be a fairly silly comment. There has been plenty emotion to it for lots of folks like myself. These were never going to be as dramatic as The Lord of the Rings and I would expect people should really have understood that going in.

They have honored that exactly and have had some action. Sure a few OTT moments but lets not use hyperbole to make it more than it is. I'm sure there are plenty of people that feel the same but I can assure you as a fellow fan there is plenty of Tolkien's take there and the emotion that comes with that.

How do we know that's all it signals? We haven't seen the movie yet. I'm sure there will be plenty of action but there will be a mix of other stuff as well.

I loved the tracked bits from FOTR. The blending of the music has been amazing.



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 10:35pm

Post #189 of 337 (3100 views)
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So true. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
It's a bit like poking an ant's nest with a stick, isn't it.....

I've just finished writing a book, sort of. Hope to print it out tomorrow. I have a title. Publisher doesn't like it, wants another title. I shrugged shoulders, used my title for the final chapter (while quietly hoping to convert him once he's read the book. But if I can't, I can't. Funny things, titles..... It is the same book, though. I'm betting it's going to be the same film, too.

I've got used to TABA... but it's not as if 'The Battle of the Five Armies' isn't from Tolkien as well. I expect we'll all live...

You can't judge a book by its cover and you can't judge a movie by its title either. It's the content that's really important.

Congratulations on finishing your book, btw. I bet it took a lot of hard work! Good luck with the rest of the publishing process.Cool

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Elessar
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 10:35pm

Post #190 of 337 (3114 views)
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Ah yes [In reply to] Can't Post

The lame Lucas comments. As someone said he's no place close to Lucas and saying he really makes it hard to take one seriously.



The Ranger Anduiel
The Shire

Apr 24 2014, 10:37pm

Post #191 of 337 (3118 views)
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One must look at how this could benefit us ringers... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit trilogy yes I could go on for hours about the mistakes/changes, and yet I still love them. I mean who didn't tear up with shear bittersweet joy when AUJ opened with the Ian Holm sequence. Knowing that although it was not going to be perfect we had waited so long!
I digress, so the title is more catchy for casual movie goers and doesn't sing to us the way TABA does or inspire those bittersweet tears again, and yes it lacks heart, but we are getting even more ME more of the world and stories we love ( even if we are forced to ignore the faults, that is okay because the changes can never take my ME from me).
I would be lying if I didn't say that the prospect of what they will do with the third installment hasn't caused stress. But if this title brings in more movie goers, more money etc then we have a greater chance of the studio saying "hey Peter, we did so well with both trilogies we really think you should give the Silm a go!" And though we will have opinions on that as well, we will have more ME! More Tolkien! I suppose that is just how I look at it and though it may sound like selling out on the title; the movie will always be The Hobbit TABA to me. Besides it is the least of our problems when it comes to AUG and DOS but that is another post...or many.

Just a humble opinion from a 15 year lurker who finally got brave enough to
post Smile


(This post was edited by The Ranger Anduiel on Apr 24 2014, 10:41pm)


Lio
Lorien


Apr 24 2014, 10:38pm

Post #192 of 337 (3122 views)
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Hmm! [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't go so far as to say which Tolkien would have chosen based on this (it seems he was only presented with the "cash" option here!), but this is an interesting piece of info! I wonder if there's a surviving script or story outline of the planned movie locked away in a vault somewhere? Tongue

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." — Dean O'Gorman (Fili)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 24 2014, 10:40pm

Post #193 of 337 (3109 views)
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much will be determined on the editing room floor [In reply to] Can't Post

but this name change could signify an increase in the build up to the Bo5A leaving less time left over for the journey home (at least in the theatrical).

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Apr 24 2014, 10:41pm

Post #194 of 337 (3137 views)
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Called another one! [In reply to] Can't Post

Suggested "Battle of Five Armies" for film 3 back in July 2012. (Link)

"There and Back Again" always seemed a better (sub?) title for the entire trilogy.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Apr 24 2014, 10:44pm)


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 24 2014, 10:45pm

Post #195 of 337 (3169 views)
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I disagree. [In reply to] Can't Post

The content of the movie will be exactly the same even if it bore the title TABA.The emphasis would be the same as the scenes have already filmed.The Battle of 5 Armies was always going to be the center of gravity and the ultimate climax of this trilogy.And when i say BO5A i do not only refer to the battle itself but to everything surrounding it.The death of Smaug,the setup,the negotiations,the actual battle,and the aftermath which also includes the journey back home of Bilbo.

P.S.We have already seen Bilbo changing in the first 2 films and i am completely sure that we are going to witness more of how that journey affected him in the third movie.

P.S.1.Did Return of the King emphasize only on this event?Absolutely not.Did the Two Towers emphasize on them?Absolutely not.A change of title doesn't equal to change of the material.It is only marketing.Nothing more,nothing less."There and Back Again" was always the perfect title for the whole trilogy but not for any of the movies individually.

"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"


Bishop
Gondor


Apr 24 2014, 10:48pm

Post #196 of 337 (3134 views)
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That's the absolute reality, though [In reply to] Can't Post

It's Peter Jackson, and this is a battle with five armies. He will spend over half the film on it. Who doesn't expect him to deliver on overblown action?



Quote
A perfect title thrown out the window in order to attract the masses with promises of overblown action.



imin
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 10:52pm

Post #197 of 337 (3137 views)
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Howard Shore good news [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pleased to read there will be more HS music, the extra 25 mins of DOS im not too bothered about.

Name change of TABA - i prefer TABA but i think BoFA is more fitting for these action blockbuster films as i can see PJ spending about 1/2 the film on the battle so it is probably a more appropriate title for this individual film with TABA used for the over arching title for the full trilogy. At the end of the day it is only a name change, the content of the film will remain the same.

All posts are to be taken as my opinion.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 10:53pm

Post #198 of 337 (3140 views)
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Congrats on coming out of lurkdom! [In reply to] Can't Post

And I agree with much of what you said, even though I haven't even been a fan as long as you have. Actually, I agree especially because I haven't been a fan as long as you have. I just discovered the wonders of ME both in the books and on film last year. I don't want it to be over yet and I'm glad that we are able to have as much of it on screen as we do, even with the "faults". And even though it will probably be a pretty long time before the rights to Silm are sold, if they ever get sold at all, I'd love to see it come to life on screen as well (TV mini-series! *crosses fingers*). Especially now that I've finally manage to find a copy of my own and will be able to read it for myself soon.

Again, congrats on coming out of lurkdom! You did an excellent first post, IMO.Smile

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 10:53pm

Post #199 of 337 (3130 views)
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Just to clarify... [In reply to] Can't Post

...calling the films "action blockbusters" is not meant to be as derogatory as it sounds. I speak more of the kind of movie like Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, The Avengers, etc. and less Transformers, 300, etc.

In all honesty, I know I'm coming off a lot more negative that I have any desire to. I've enjoyed the films quite a lot. It's just that I struggled to deal with the stylistic, visual, and dramatic differences of An Unexpected Journey from both the LotR films and the original novel - as well as some adaptation choices that have never quite worked for me (Azog, in particular). My response to The Desolation of Smaug benefited from my altered expectations - but whenever I go back and watch The Lord of the Rings (as I did just the other night), I'm reminded of how extraordinary those films are on a dramatic, technical, and overall cinematic level. Naturally, what follows is me waxing poetic about what I originally desired for the Hobbit films - smaller in scale and scope, but retaining the same emotional core (which is not to say I think PJ's Hobbit films are devoid of emotion - just to clear that up).

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 10:57pm

Post #200 of 337 (3106 views)
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I do as well [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course there are changes but there is plenty of the book there. At least I feel that way. Cool


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