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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
HUGE Announcement from Peter Jackson's facebook page TITLE CHANGE AND DOS EE
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Avandel
Half-elven

Apr 24 2014, 8:44pm

Post #151 of 337 (3126 views)
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IMO that's kind of harsh [In reply to] Can't Post

"A perfect title thrown out the window in order to attract the masses with promises of overblown action.
That's why it was changed. Make no mistake.
They should have just called it "The Hobbit: One last attempt to make more money by appealing to the lowest common denominator"."

Not saying you're wrong, I just don't think it's that terrible. Or that it's terrible that both LOTR and the Hobbit made a healthy profit and yet so much is true, or pays respect to, the source. If WB etc. were really appealing to the lowest common denominator I'm sure they would have hooked Thorin up w. some female who happens to have a big chest and looks "hot", Kili and Tauriel would already have been making hay so to speak, Gandalf would have invented explosives and there would be a lot more fight scenes, the dwarves would all look like male models, and Bilbo and Smaug would have become good friends w. Smaug giving rides to the kiddies *sniff*.

The argument canon vs. not has gone round and round, but even PJ has said - and I can't remember if he was talking about AUJ or FOTR - that if they had failed, w. the second films he wouldn't have had to worry so much essentially. There's a burden of sorts that comes w. worldwide success, and from the sound of it re TABA, PJ is already feeling the heat of fan expectations. So there's a title that instantly tells ALL the public a pinnacle within the film - actually IMO it's wise in general to have a title for a book or film that denotes a meaning of some kind. I don't consider "There and Back Again" to be a perfect title, unless you have read the book and understand all the nuances (e.g. to me it's more than an actual journey, it's Bilbo's emotional arc "and if you return, you will not be the same". But I wouldn't know that if I hadn't read the book). The Battle of the Five Armies to me might not be the most interesting title in the world, but it certainly tells me immediately something of what to expect.

Also, no PR campaign is just going to have Bilbo skipping happily back to his hobbit-hole. It's going to have (possibly) themes of madness, war, sorrow, danger - so the title needs to tie into that.


"Richard Armitage’s performance has been one of the best things about the new trilogy, making you believe that a hairy dwarf, so often the comedy element of the LOTR films, can be a heroic, tortured, and dangerous badass." - Den of Geek, The Hobbit: There & Back Again, 7 Apr 2014 - 07:07


book Gandalf
Rohan


Apr 24 2014, 8:47pm

Post #152 of 337 (3120 views)
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themes [In reply to] Can't Post

the problem with BO5A is that it reeks of action flick. TABA at least nodded towards the books little guy on a journey against all odds type story.

but at some point you have to accept these films have none of the themes of the book, on the surface it is the hobbit but the book is more about words and cunning and cleverness, the films are about weapons and explosions and set pieces. fine, bring it on, but dont pretend this is really the against all odds story of 'the hobbit'

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 8:47pm

Post #153 of 337 (3114 views)
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It's a good job that there are 10 other boards on the forum... [In reply to] Can't Post

Where you can find perfect grammar and high quality conversations taking place.



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Apr 24 2014, 8:49pm

Post #154 of 337 (3182 views)
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Please Read My 9,600+ Posts [In reply to] Can't Post

I have never been dead set against the Hobbit movies. I am sorry you consider my recent posts "Dramatic" for they are honest expressions of my growing disappointment with what Peter has done. It is not the disservice to Tolkien that bothers me. It is the over stuffed adaptation of the story that is told by "The Hobbit".
I could list all of what I do not find acceptable but this would only be a reiteration of complaints made by others here on this forum. KS

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Apr 24 2014, 8:51pm)


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 24 2014, 8:50pm

Post #155 of 337 (3107 views)
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That is true. [In reply to] Can't Post

 You can only imagine what is going to happen when the final Middle Earth movie is released Laugh

"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 8:50pm

Post #156 of 337 (3111 views)
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And yet [In reply to] Can't Post

every single even slightly derogatory (or sometimes not even particularly derogatory) remark about the TH films has increasingly been responded to with the same outrage, dismissal and blaming of the poster. So no, I haven't. And "Intense" isn't the adjective I would have gone with this trend, though it does indeed start with the same letter.

"Not tall, but broad and grim...wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come, we deem."




Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Apr 24 2014, 8:55pm

Post #157 of 337 (3114 views)
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It would be inappropriate [In reply to] Can't Post

if they do not go home again. A Three hour battle doesn't leave much time for the journey back to Hobbiton. KS

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 8:55pm

Post #158 of 337 (3095 views)
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And [In reply to] Can't Post

I recall being one of the biggest cheerleaders of TH films before the trilogy decision, attempting to explain to posters who were bemoaning little details or complete unknowns (IE the crap in Radagast's hair or the existence of Itaril/Tauriel) that we should reserve judgement considering the job that was done by PJ and company with LotR. Funny, that, I believe goes the expression.

"Not tall, but broad and grim...wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come, we deem."




Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 24 2014, 8:57pm

Post #159 of 337 (3102 views)
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My apologies. [In reply to] Can't Post

I must be confusing you with another poster who literally is dead set against anything related to a Hobbit movie and is quite dramatic about it.

You just seem to not deem PJ's changes as a good thing and tend to lean towards a "truer" book adaptation, yes?



Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 8:57pm

Post #160 of 337 (3057 views)
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I'm hoping..... [In reply to] Can't Post

...he gets to the "Argumentum ex Silentio" section of his textbook really soon.

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Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 9:06pm

Post #161 of 337 (3038 views)
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"Reductio ad absurdum " [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And yet every single even slightly derogatory (or sometimes not even particularly derogatory) remark about the TH films has increasingly been responded to with the same outrage, dismissal and blaming of the poster. So no, I haven't.

(Emphasis mine.)

"every"? Exaggerate much?



In Reply To
And "Intense" isn't the adjective I would have gone with this trend, though it does indeed start with the same letter.


And an "Ad hominem" to boot!!

You're doing well! Can't wait for the contextomy!!

******************************************
https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah


Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 24 2014, 9:08pm

Post #162 of 337 (3050 views)
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But, that's not true. [In reply to] Can't Post

There are many of us who have expressed many disappointments, shortcomings, etc with the films, and have done so civilly without triggering a firefight.

You implied that PJ&Co did LotR right, but now are artistically bankrupt. This implies that PJ&Co have "changed" from quality filmmakers to artistically bankrupt like the likes of Michael Bay or Lucas. Darkstone brought up how even in the PROLOGUE for LotR there were some less-than-artistic genius lines, implying that perhaps he hasn't really "changed" a whole lot.

I'm not sure why this particular issue sparked this flurry of angry remarks.

Edit: I think it's still possible to be artistic while including (seemingly negative) buzzwords such as: spectacle, blockbuster, action-packed, heavy CGI, fun. The CGI, for instance, takes a ton of skilled work and IS an art medium in itself.



(This post was edited by Imladris18 on Apr 24 2014, 9:18pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Apr 24 2014, 9:12pm

Post #163 of 337 (3063 views)
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I would feel better [In reply to] Can't Post

if Peter were telling the story that is in the book. I would not even mind additions and embellishments if they were not done at the expense of the "story" of the Hobbit. I fear Peter has lost his way in his own vision and it looks like he probably find the right path in the upcoming movie, what ever its name. KS

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 9:22pm

Post #164 of 337 (2996 views)
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Yep. [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad somebody understood what I posted.

I mean, I love the films and I think PJ did good.

I have no idea what CS is on about.

Maybe it's just past his bedtime and he needs his winkie.

******************************************
https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 24 2014, 9:24pm)


Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 24 2014, 9:25pm

Post #165 of 337 (3007 views)
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Ah, okay. Fair enough. [In reply to] Can't Post

I, personally, still see much of the book in the films, and in places I think it even improves on it, but that's just my opinion. The only major gripe I really have so far is the final cat-and-mouse Smaug chase shenanigans at the end of DoS. I wished they would've stuck a little closer to the book on that.



(This post was edited by Imladris18 on Apr 24 2014, 9:25pm)


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Apr 24 2014, 9:26pm

Post #166 of 337 (3004 views)
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Didn't mind that at all [In reply to] Can't Post

I did mind the healing scene, though.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 9:26pm

Post #167 of 337 (2958 views)
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For the longest time... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
BTW I was always confused with these acronyms, I read TABA as The Battle of 5 Armies, and get used to call the 3rd film like that while speaking and thinking. I remembered about There and Back Again only when I run into BOFA (like "oh yes, this is the acronym for the army thing, not TABA!"). I hope it will bring more people to the cinemas, to prove WB and other studios that it is worth to make films about Middle Earth.


...I used to read TABA as To Be Announced, but I couldn't figure out what the extra "A" stood for.Wink

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 9:39pm

Post #168 of 337 (2953 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I've always found the book immensely tragic. Bilbo loses so much. It seems like parts of him die during each stage of the journey. If he was a young hobbit the changes wouldn't be so bad. But the entire book seems like it's all about the old Bilbo dying. It makes me sad.

I can see how Tolkien might indeed have intended a deeper adult subtext what with his own entrance into middle age.

******************************************
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Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 24 2014, 9:43pm

Post #169 of 337 (2953 views)
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See, I didn't have a huge issue with it. It was a bit awkward, but I liked the ambiguity of how Tauriel felt at the end there. [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean, I don't hate it. The engineer in me just has a hard time dealing with Thorin strolling down molten gold in a metal wheelbarrow and not getting toasted alive lol.



Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 9:43pm

Post #170 of 337 (3011 views)
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On the other hand... [In reply to] Can't Post

...when the first Sil movie is released the exact same people will be going "How could Jackson have so totally messed it up? The Hobbit movies were PERFECT!!!"

I guarantee it. I saw it happen with LOTR.

******************************************
https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah


Patty
Immortal


Apr 24 2014, 9:47pm

Post #171 of 337 (3038 views)
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Not happy. [In reply to] Can't Post

This seems further away from the "feel" of Tolkien and closer to a title that might sell movie tickets to the public that hadn't read the books. Oh well, I will see it regardless.

Permanent address: Into the West






Azimuth
The Shire

Apr 24 2014, 9:55pm

Post #172 of 337 (2986 views)
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I wasn't here at the time of LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

But while reading Boards now (I started this year) I suspected that the same things were written about LOTR Smile And that now the same people are praising LOTR in contradiction to The Hobbit.

Quote
...when the first Sil movie is released the exact same people will be going "How could Jackson have so totally messed it up? The Hobbit movies were PERFECT!!!"

I guarantee it. I saw it happen with LOTR.

I understand that. I was disappointed after watching TT and ROTK (I liked FOTR because I read the book after seeing it in cinema). But after few months I started to like it and now I love those films.


Lio
Lorien


Apr 24 2014, 9:57pm

Post #173 of 337 (2992 views)
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One "the" too many [In reply to] Can't Post

Oddly enough, that was one of my first impressions after learning about the new title.

"The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies"

There, I've fixed it! Laugh

On a less nitpicky note, I'm actually happy with the change and agree with PJ's reasons for it. "There and Back Again" is a lovely title but just doesn't fit with the third movie. It's better as a subtitle for the trilogy as a whole, I think.

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." — Dean O'Gorman (Fili)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Lio
Lorien


Apr 24 2014, 9:59pm

Post #174 of 337 (2976 views)
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Okay, I'll bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Which one would Tolkien have chosen and how do we know this? Tongue

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." — Dean O'Gorman (Fili)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Azimuth
The Shire

Apr 24 2014, 10:00pm

Post #175 of 337 (2984 views)
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What is wrong with that? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's good that something connected with professor Tolkien will be presented to a wider audience. It will increase the chances that people who are not familiar with his books will start to read them.

Quote
This seems further away from the "feel" of Tolkien and closer to a title that might sell movie tickets to the public that hadn't read the books. Oh well, I will see it regardless.


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