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TheImaginator
Rivendell
Apr 24 2014, 6:33pm
Post #1 of 46
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Who will "The Five Armies" actually be?
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So in the book it is:
1. Men
2. Dwarves
3. Elves
4. Wargs
5. Goblins
In the film it is looking to be:
1. Men
2. Dwarves
3. Elves
4. Orcs/Warges (all merged together)
5....
I've heard some people refer to the fifth army as the Eagles but I don't really feel they an "army" and that they would make up one the five. I like the idea of the Eagles being a force of nature that join the battle like the bats and Beorn and not necessarily an army.
Who do you guys think the 5th armies will be?
Another possibility could be the Goblins from the Misty Mountains, which makes sense considering AUJ.
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tripecac
Rivendell
Apr 24 2014, 6:39pm
Post #2 of 46
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It could be:
5) Animals (eagles, rabbits, hedgehogs, bumblebees, butterflies) lead by Radagast and Beorn
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book Gandalf
Rohan
Apr 24 2014, 6:40pm
Post #3 of 46
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...whatever they are they are going to have to be very distinct now the film is called BO5A
men
elves
dwarves
orcs
wargs? doesnt seem very distinct especially as wargs and orcs are on the same side. an army of waargs? like an army of horses? no.
i feel the fifth army will be dains army. they are distinct and will be like rohan was in rotk.
so rather than 5 different races, it willl be distinct military factions.
This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.
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Arandir
Gondor
Apr 24 2014, 6:50pm
Post #4 of 46
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wargs? doesnt seem very distinct especially as wargs and orcs are on the same side. an army of waargs? like an army of horses? no
"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves." - The Clouds Burst
True, Tolkien doesn't say "Wargs" but they're still a type of "wild wolf" and as we see in the "Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire" chapter, the orcs/goblins were allied to the Wargs and:
"they often got the Wargs to help and shared the plunder with them. Sometimes they rode on wolves like men do on horses."
So it seems pretty clear that Wargs were indeed a separate army, even though they provided "transport" to the orcs during the Battle.
Still, how PJ will categorize the armies is anyone's guess ...
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
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tripecac
Rivendell
Apr 24 2014, 7:09pm
Post #5 of 46
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It depends mostly on this question:
Will it be 4 good armies vs 1 evil army? Or 3 vs 2?
In LotR the main armies were 2 good (Rohan, Gondor) vs 2 evil (Isengard, Mordor). There were also two auxiliary armies: the ents and the dead. So it was either 2 vs 2 or 4 vs 2, depending on how picky you are about what constitutes an "army".
For the Hobbit, I can see 4-vs-1 if the message is "we all must band together to defeat this evil foe". It's similar to how the Allies ganged up on Germany during WW1 and WW2. PJ is a fan of WW1 and WW2 (or at least the airplanes from those periods). So it's not unlikely he picks a World War theme. "Everyone must help out, since everyone's way of life is at risk". It's the ANZAC spirit. Today is ANZAC Day, by the way!
On the other hand, it might seem "unfair" for it to be 4 good armies vs 1 evil army. So he might pick a more "balanced" 3-vs-2.
My best guess for 4-vs-1 is:
1) Men
2) Dwarves
3) Mirkwood Elves
4) Rivendell Elves, Wizards, Beorn, Eagles
---versus--
5) all bad guys: orcs, wargs, possible wraiths, goblins, spiders
or possibly:
1) Men
2) Thorin's Dwarves (not much of an army unless they get allies from elsewhere)
3) Dain's Dwarves
4) Mirkwood Elves
---versus--
5) all bad guys: orcs, wargs, possible wraiths, goblins, spiders
As for 3-vs-2 it could be:
1) Men
2) Dwarves
3) Elves
---versus--
4) Misty Mountain baddies: Goblins (though they seemed ineffective in AUJ)
5) Dol Guldur baddies: Orcs, wargs, maybe a ringwraith or two, Sauron behind-the-scenes like in LotR
I don't think the goblins are much of a threat, though. In AUJ they didn't do much. So maybe they'll be joined by spiders.
Or maybe Smaug will be considered the fifth army. Would PJ keep him alive until near the end of the third movie?
(This post was edited by tripecac on Apr 24 2014, 7:10pm)
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book Gandalf
Rohan
Apr 24 2014, 7:10pm
Post #6 of 46
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i think the 'wild wolf' army is one of the 'mistakes' of the hobbit, like the talking purse and many other things i cant remember right now. it just doesnt fit.
so its only goblins at the bo5a? only wild wolves? not orcs, not wargs? its of course open to interpretation in this setting, and a wolf army just doesnt fit in no more than a eagle army or a horse army.
basically the title of the film will be very hard to justify once this films comes out, i bet on it, another reason TABA is arguably better title.
This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 24 2014, 7:19pm
Post #7 of 46
(892 views)
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Lobstermen from Mars
Giant Mutated Beavers
La Resistance
Hordes of the Underminer
Pirate Ninja Supermodels
(Hey. I'd watch it!)
******************************************
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HeWhoArisesinMight
Rivendell
Apr 24 2014, 7:27pm
Post #8 of 46
(814 views)
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I thought wargs-wolves/goblins were 1 army and eagles the 5th
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So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves." - The Clouds Burst
Your quote above makes it seem like the Goblins and wild Wolves were separate Armies, but I took it as they were one Army. Granted, the passage of the book can be interpreted in 2 ways: Goblins and wild Wolves made up one army, or they were two separate armies that allied together. I just don't see the wolves/wargs, though being a true army with leaders. the wolves are somewhat sentient, but not like the Ents. If the wolves had a leader such as Drauglin or Cacharoth at the helm, then I would see them as a separate army with distinct leaders.
On the other hand, the Eagles seem like a distinct group under their own lord Gwaihir, unlike the wolves. The Eagles are definitely sentient and have a "military" commander. They came separately and as their own fighting force, under their own behest. So my logic leads to Eagles being a fifth, distinct army under its own command.
Battle of Five Armies
1. Men
2. Dwarves
3. Elves
4. Eagles
5. Goblins/wolves
(This post was edited by HeWhoArisesinMight on Apr 24 2014, 7:36pm)
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Imladris18
Lorien
Apr 24 2014, 7:32pm
Post #9 of 46
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Different races may not mean different armies.
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My guess is we'll see 5 distinctive "groups" of combatants - the 5 "armies" - as opposed to it being strictly based off of race.
My guess is Dwarves/Elves/Men will be their respective "armies," then there will be 2 different distinct mixed orc/warg armies.
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deskp
Lorien
Apr 24 2014, 7:41pm
Post #10 of 46
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Thats the 5 armeis far as I'm conerned. 5 armies elad by 5 leaders. Wargs and orcs/goblins all elad by Azog for Sauron so that a pretty clear 1 army for me.
Dain
Bard?
Thranduil
Azog
Gwaihir?
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Rickster
Rohan
Apr 24 2014, 7:53pm
Post #11 of 46
(779 views)
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what more do we want to know
it is going to be amazing and fantastic
but we still have to wait so long for it all
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Apr 24 2014, 8:32pm
Post #12 of 46
(727 views)
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 24 2014, 10:20pm
Post #13 of 46
(646 views)
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1. Elves
2. Men
3. Dwarves
4. Dol Guldur Orcs/Wargs
5. Misty/Grey Mountain Goblins/Bats
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 24 2014, 10:20pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Apr 24 2014, 10:29pm
Post #14 of 46
(647 views)
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You forgot the hedghogs (each armed with a lethal talking purse)
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Apr 24 2014, 11:25pm
Post #15 of 46
(633 views)
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A great big army of Mountain Trolls from the Grey Mountains.
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That would surprise everyone. Movie-goers, book-readers and the characters themselves! 
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 24 2014, 11:30pm
Post #16 of 46
(638 views)
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Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Apr 24 2014, 11:51pm
Post #17 of 46
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The purses will talk your ear off...literally!
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Quote
You forgot the hedghogs (each armed with a lethal talking purse)
"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 25 2014, 12:04am
Post #18 of 46
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Ooops! You're absolutely right!
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That should be "Pirate Kunoichi Supermodels"!
Ataahua 1
Darkstone 1
(I wonder if there's time to change the title of their upcoming movie, "Pirate Ninja Supermodels Versus The Frozen Zombies From Outer Space"?)
BTW, this film could only be made in Texas!
******************************************
https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 25 2014, 12:07am)
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patrickk
Rohan
Apr 25 2014, 3:02am
Post #19 of 46
(564 views)
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...three versus two: the two being goblins and orcs.
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Apr 25 2014, 3:18am
Post #20 of 46
(592 views)
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remember PJ hinted at a "air war" during the BOT5A
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so i'm guessing giant bats or just hundreds of bats attacking the eagles? unless smaug shows up...
The flames of war are upon you.
(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Apr 25 2014, 3:18am)
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ghost_matt
Rivendell
Apr 25 2014, 4:29am
Post #21 of 46
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1. Elves
2. Dwarves
3. Humans
4. Goblins
5. Eagles
6. Chuck Norris
Am I the only one who saw the Rankin/Bass movie where he even counted them off? Sheesh. j/k ;)
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Scot Down South
The Shire
Apr 25 2014, 4:59am
Post #22 of 46
(540 views)
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My penny's worth
Dwarves
Elves
Men
Orcs
Bats
In the book the bats look to sway the battle until the eagles arrive ( late) to restore the balance.
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Arandir
Gondor
Apr 25 2014, 6:51am
Post #24 of 46
(519 views)
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Tolkien's quote is pretty clear and doesn't mention Eagles in relation to the "Five Armies".
I just don't see the wolves/wargs, though being a true army with leaders. But Wargs DID have leaders. In "Out of the Frying Pan and Into the Fire", we get a pretty clear picture that Wargs had their own structure and organization; and allied themselves with the orcs/goblins. They even had a leader of their own (distinct by the different colour of its fur) which ended up with a flaming pine on its nose ...
I don't know but I've always seen that quote by Tolkien (in The Clouds Burst) as outlining who the five armies where - straight from the horse's mouth. The eagles, I've never considered as being an army to be honest ...
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Why we Love 'Sherlock'
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'
(This post was edited by Arandir on Apr 25 2014, 6:52am)
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Apr 25 2014, 7:19am
Post #25 of 46
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probably be 4 armies versus a large "sauron host"
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Dwarves, Elves, men, and eagles versus goblins of the misty mountains and moria, orcs of mt. gundabad, wargs, spiders and bats
The flames of war are upon you.
(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Apr 25 2014, 7:21am)
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