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Arandir
Gondor
Apr 23 2014, 3:52pm
Post #1 of 9
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Conflicting accounts on the scale of the BOFA? **possible spoilers**
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So we get Evangeline Lily saying that:
"Peter ... I think he's wise enough not to compete with the Helm's Deep battle" - (note, video contains massive book spoilers so skip to between 2:10-2:14, here.
We also had one of last year's Total Film magazine issues (I believe November), also making reference to Helm's Deep and being compared with the Battle of the Five Armies.
Then we get an interview with Luke Evans, stating that:
"Peter wanted to do something bigger, better, even crazier than what he did in 'The Lord of the Rings.'" - here
But Joe Letteri picks up the Helm's Deep argument in an interview with Collider and that:
"He also compared the Battle of the Five Armies to the Battle of Helm’s Deep in The Two Towers. (interview link)
But then again, we get a recent interview (this year's HobbitCon) with Richard Taylor about the Battle and he relates:
"how Peter choreographs that incredible battle ... it of course will live up to the books if Peter's doing it. It will be the greatest battle committed to film. (link)
A bold statement, but this is Richard Taylor here - who is probably the closest production member working with Peter on the battle: knowing quite well the scale of the battle.
Whilst Helm's Deep was impressive beyond any other cinematic battles, from my point of view, the Battle of the Pelennor Fields is - so far - the greatest battle committed to film.
So, what does everyone make of all this?
Are these conflicts simply the result of individuals' perceptions? Is someone more versed in marketing the third film? (thus the reference to a grander scale)
[Note: This is not a discussion of whether it should be bigger or smaller than the Pelennor Fields; (that was discussed here already) but rather, why the conflicting references towards scale ...
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Why we Love 'Sherlock'
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'
(This post was edited by Arandir on Apr 23 2014, 3:54pm)
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Fleuz
Lorien
Apr 23 2014, 4:12pm
Post #2 of 9
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in terms of pure numbers.
Compared to the Rings the TTT Battle will have similar amounts of fighters.
But the area is much more complex and greater than Helms Deep. It will span from the Dwarven Gate at Erebor until the old city of Dale. Plus some Hills around there.
And it is more going on in the Battle itself. More different armies. And more turning points.
I think this is why there are such different statements from C&C.
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Annatar598
Rohan
Apr 23 2014, 5:55pm
Post #3 of 9
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It has to be the most 'insane' battle ever
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since BOFA is THE definitive fantasy battle. Even the name gives it away (and this time, we have Tolkien to credit for the notion of 5 very organically different duking it out)
PJ would be so foolish to not make it the most epic battle ever (It can be epic without competing with the battle at Pelenor).
Not that PJ is ever foolish :) (no sarcasm here fyi)
"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.
Really? Alright...
Well, proud to be one I guess.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Apr 23 2014, 6:58pm
Post #4 of 9
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I'm gonna go with it will be epic and mindblowing
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And I actually prefer Helm's Deep to Pelennor Fields - for ME it is far more moving re the buildup, the aloneness ("and who would come?....we are not so lucky in our friends as you....no, my lord Aragorn, we are alone"), the desperate grittiness of it.
And I picture TABA being more akin to Helm's Deep - swarming orcs, desperation (why does Thorin evidently rally all w. a "suicidal move") unless Erebor and all are about to fall? Also the landscape doesn't lend itself to a Pelennor Fields type engagement, tho I can see orcs swarming through Dale, into the area between Dale and Erebor, and around the mountain. That doesn't mean the battle won't be incredible, just based on PJ's interest in the World Wars and knowing this needs to be special.
I put less credence on what EL has said, given that 1) she herself said she spent more time off set than on; and 2) all of the actors seem to indicate that they don't know what the final of any of the movies look like, or if scenes they shot will even show up. At this point I am more inclined to listen to the editors/producers etc. that are stitching the whole thing together. Saying PJ wouldn't be competing with the Helm's Deep battle could mean a lot of things - including making sure you don't have all the orcs standing in front of the Erebor gates, which would be a repeat of sorts. But rather have them coming in towards Erebor from all sides.
"Richard Armitage’s performance has been one of the best things about the new trilogy, making you believe that a hairy dwarf, so often the comedy element of the LOTR films, can be a heroic, tortured, and dangerous badass." - Den of Geek, The Hobbit: There & Back Again, 7 Apr 2014 - 07:07
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Name
Rohan
Apr 23 2014, 7:43pm
Post #5 of 9
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I prefer Helms Deep to Pelennor any day.
As I mentioned briefly in another thread, I think the BOFA will be more organized, more strategic than anything we've ever seen in Middle-earth. I'd actually be disappointed if it was like the Last Alliance, which was mostly controlled chaos on a giant field.
This battle will be more WWII-ish, like you said, and will probably revolve around capturing/overrunning strategic points on the battlefield, like Ravenhill. I also expect some of the "good guys" to be pushed back through Dale, which could prove interesting. Point is, this won't be Pelennor Fields or Last Alliance stuff, but more on the Helms Deep style warfare, where things are controlled and almost more "personal" to the audience.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Apr 23 2014, 7:45pm
Post #6 of 9
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It is one of the basic reasons my favourite Middle Earth movie so far is TTT.I would love to see BO5A bear a resemblance to that fantastic battle.
"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Apr 23 2014, 7:53pm
Post #8 of 9
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Apparently you are not
I am glad i found another one folk who has it on the top of his list and i mostly agree with his/her opinions 
"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Apr 23 2014, 9:09pm
Post #9 of 9
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...I think that the Bo5A can be plenty epic without trying to compete with the scale of the Battle of Pelennor Fields. Yes, the Bo5A is supposed to have five distinct armies, but if you want to compare that with the Battle of Pelennor from the books, 5 armies is nothing. Pelennor had at least 7 different armies present (Rohirrim, Gondorians from all over Gondor and not just Minas Tirith, the Orcs, Trolls, and Nazgul of Mordor, the Variags, the Haradrim, the Easterlings, and the Troll-men of Far Harad). Pelennor in the films had a massive number of participants as well, but PJ mostly used Orcs in place of some of the armies of Men (like the omitted Easterlings, Variags, and Troll-men of Far Harad).
So I do not think that the Bo5A should try to top the numbers present at Pelennor. The scale of the Bo5A in the books was nowhere close to the scale of the Battle of Pelennor, and I feel the film should reflect that. Helm's Deep is a good point of comparison for how big I think the Bo5A should be. Maybe a bit bigger than Helm's Deep, but nowhere near as big as Pelennor.
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