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TORn Amateur Symposium
Bree
Apr 21 2014, 2:21am
Post #1 of 47
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TORn AMATEUR SYMPOSIUM Day Five: "The Lessons of Prometheus in Tolkien's Legendarium," by Khim (aka Mim)
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Welcome to April 2014 TORn Amateur Symposium, the third TAS!
We are very pleased to present the next essay for TAS3:
Click here to view "The Lessons of Prometheus in Tolkien's Legendarium," by Khim (aka Mim)
Abstract:
In the spring of 1986 I was a senior English major at the University of Maryland, College Park campus. Deviating from my core curriculum I had the privilege to attend a class on myth-making by Dr. Verlyn Flieger, a trail blazer in the study of J.R.R. Tolkien’s work, and still a giant in matters of literary and mythical import. My TORn Amateur Symposium submission is my term paper comparing the Greek playwright Aeschylus with Tolkien, using Promethean imagery as points of comparison. My contention was that each author channelled an ancient pessimistic mythical framework to express their own more optimistic world view, and that each represented in their own epochs a prevailing concurrence within a significant portion of the populace. Score one for retentive geeks with file cabinets.
To view an essay, please click on the link above.
Our authors have written essays and analyses that are concerned, in some way, with the legendarium of John Ronald Reuel Tolkien. These essays may be philosophic opinions, scientific theories, or analytical approaches to understanding or highlighting some facet of Tolkien's writings and world. These pieces are written with the goal of amateur scholarship at their core - thus inspiring our Symposium title. Authors may choose to include citations or footnotes, but they are by no means required.
Keeping in mind "the dual spirit of enjoyment and inquiry" that we believe in (as much as we value cheer and song), and which is of paramount importance to both the TAS team and our authors, we fully encourage discussion of the essays presented. We hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoy posting it. The TAS is open for discussion, and any comments, questions or thought you wish to share about this essay can be posted in this response to this thread.
We have quite a full schedule of essays - essays will posted every other day. The schedule can be found here.
So please, go forth and enjoy all of the works we have posted for this 2014 April Session. The entire TAS Team, (Elaen32, Brethil and DanielLB), is both delighted and proud to present the essays our TAS members have crafted, relating their interests and skills to the world of JRRT that we all love; a world most intricately crafted, and one that "takes hold of us, and never let's go."
(This post was edited by TORn Amateur Symposium on Apr 21 2014, 2:33am)
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Apr 21 2014, 8:20am
Post #2 of 47
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There are a lot of intriguing thoughts in here! I enjoyed reading it, and will take some thinking time and then be back with further comment!
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"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine
"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Apr 21 2014, 10:48am
Post #3 of 47
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I think Feanor and Prometheus is a very interesting compare/contrast.
In a way they are both tales of hubris: the Greek gods don't like people getting fire, because it reduces the difference between people and gods. Feanor's hubris comes at an interestingly different point: the Valar don't object to him making the silmarils, and they don't try to force him to give them back to rekindle the trees. The break point is, of course when he insists on taking the pursuit of Melkor into his own hands.
As regards the 'optimism' of these two authors, I wonder whether a character in Middle-earth is almost forced to be optimistic: Arda is, after ultimately controlled by an apparently omnipotent and benign god. So things ought to tend to work out well overall, according to a grand, divine scheme. (Of course that doesn't mean everything must be nice from moment to moment - e.g. you are currently being hacked to death by orcs, either in furtherance of the grand divine scheme, or because it will go on without you).
One could compare that with the story of Io, or many of the various human lust objects of the Greek gods. Your survival chances as such a character were not good: if your godly lover didn't turn you into something nasty for not co-operating, or because he'd tired of you, you were likely to get it from another god. Nothing to do with a grand, benevolent scheme there I think !
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"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine
"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Apr 21 2014, 4:18pm
Post #4 of 47
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This topic segues quite nicely from the discussion of Greek myth and gender roles in the previous essay. (I suspect some clever scheduling on the part of the TAS team  )
Most of what I would say on the topic has already been said by you, in your paper, however I may havesomethin to add to the discussion:
Prometheus brought fire and knowledge to Man, however, inspiration comes from the Muses. IIRC, the Muses were the children of Zeus. So what about the succession of art from Prometheus and the continuation of inspiration coming indirectly from Zeus?
Overall, a very lucid and eloquent comparison/contrast of authorial and mythical styles.
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
(This post was edited by Rembrethil on Apr 21 2014, 4:18pm)
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ajgetway
The Shire
Apr 21 2014, 5:07pm
Post #5 of 47
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An awesome essay! I, sadly, have not read either of the works you compared (yes, I know as a lover of Tolkien, The Silmarillion is on my list of must-reads, but life tends to get in the way or me reading it properly). But it is clear that you are very familiar and comfortable with both texts and understand what point you were making.
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Khim
Bree
Apr 21 2014, 6:20pm
Post #6 of 47
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Very kind words. I encourage you to read The Silmarillion, it helped broaden and deepen my appreciation of JRRT and his works.
I am Khim akin to Mim.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 21 2014, 6:21pm
Post #7 of 47
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Welcome to the Reading Room, AJ! And thanks for joining the conversation.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 21 2014, 6:49pm
Post #8 of 47
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What a great topic to write on Mim/Khim/Him/Whim!
I'm still musing in a non-Muse way, and I'll second the points Wiz brought up, and I'd be tempted to plagiarize him if I thought I could get away with it, but there's an image of breaking rules and getting nailed to a mountainside, which is a powerful deterrent.
You raised a lot of subtle points in the Feanor/Prometheus comparison. One I would add is Yavanna saying that Feanor was foresighted in creating the Silmarils, since they were a sort of backup rescue plan for the Two Trees. He also saw with foresight that Melkor couldn't be defeated by the Noldor, though foresight comes often enough to the Elves that I don't want to overstate that. I think it's significant that he *possibly* made the Silmarils out of foresight of their destruction, in a hazy way like a warning from a dream you have but can't quite remember. Tolkien never makes it clear (surprise!), but I suspect it's the case.
How much did each person want to be admired for their acts? Was Prometheus truly altruistic and giving away fire for the good of humanity, or did he expect to be worshipped and applauded for it? It seems to me that he was the original altruist, and Aeschylus added the pride to him to make him more complex. By contrast, Feanor might have thought of the common good when he first created the Silmarils, but he quickly became vain and selfish about them.
When it came to outright defiance of divine orders, did Feanor and his sons have to take that Oath? Couldn't they have just said, "We are very, very determined to get our jewels back, and we mean Determined!" Wasn't it a sort of orgy of blasphemy to anger ALL the gods (good and bad) by uttering that oath? Were they so faint-hearted and easily-distracted that it was really necessary? It seems pure hubris to me, whereas Prometheus, even if he wanted to score some points, seemed to truly believe he was doing the right thing in opposing Zeus and was acting selflessly. How would we view Prometheus differently if he had first stood before all the gods on Olympus and declared his opposition and what he would do in a Feanorian Oath?
Certainly Tolkien expected more justice in the world than the Greeks did, unless Tulkas has some skeletons in his closets involving fights in taverns that were hushed up "for the common good." While the Valar can be criticized for not intervening more to fight their own rebel, they didn't run around Middle-earth turning maidens into cows or creating prophets that no one believed (though Melian comes to mind...). The Valar and Eru, like the Christian God, "move in mysterious ways," so you may not understand why they don't stop all the tragedy in the world, but you're supposed to believe that sorrow enriches wisdom, so it's not all bad, and the divine powers are sympathetic to suffering, whereas Greek gods were indifferent or cared only when they had something at stake, or when the wind just happened to blow in the right direction.
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Khim
Bree
Apr 21 2014, 7:39pm
Post #9 of 47
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The flip side to the Oath debate, is that the Valar gave the elves the rope to hang themselves. I think they could have demanded the jewels, or prevented the exodus. But they didn't. And they were even more reluctant to interfere in the affairs of Men.
During a six hour drive through four states this morning I pondered Tolkien the author, the History of Middle-earth, and religion. I have a ideas about why these stories appeal to people of many faiths, and even those with none at all. I can personally attest to why I prefer the LOTR to religion.
As Commander Data once said. "processing, processing...."
I am Khim akin to Mim.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 21 2014, 8:22pm
Post #10 of 47
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LOTR Prometheuses: Gimli, Legolas, and Galadriel
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Together the Elf and the Dwarf entered Minas Tirith, and folk that saw them pass marvelled to see such companions; for Legolas was fair of face beyond the measure of Men, and he sang an elven-song in a clear voice as he walked in the morning; but Gimli stalked beside him, stroking his beard and staring about him.
'There is some good stone-work here,' he said as he looked at the walls; 'but also some that is less good, and the streets could be better contrived. When Aragorn comes into his own, I shall offer him the service of stonewrights of the Mountain, and we will make this a town to be proud of.'
'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.'
-The Last Debate
After the fall of Sauron, Gimli brought south a part of the Dwarf folk of Erebor, and he became Lord of the Glittering Caves. He and his people did great works in Gondor and Rohan. For Minas Tirith they forged gates of mitril and steel to replace those broken by the Witch King. Legolas his friend also brought south Elves out of Greenwood, and they dwelt in Ithilien, and it became once again the fairest country in all the westlands.
-Appendix B
The trees were the worst loss and damage, for at Sharkey's bidding they had been cut down recklessly far and wide over the Shire; and Sam grieved over this more than anything else. For one thing, this hurt would take long to heal, and only his great-grandchildren, he thought, would see the Shire as it ought to be.
Then suddenly one day, for he had been too busy for weeks to give a thought to his adventures, he remembered the gift of Galadriel.
-The Grey Havens
And great essay!
******************************************
https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 21 2014, 8:25pm)
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Brethil
Half-elven
Apr 21 2014, 8:52pm
Post #11 of 47
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Water as the universal solve(nt)
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Great essay Khim. And a wonderful continuation of your work done with the estimable Dr. Fleiger - thank you for sharing this with us! 
Water seems to strike a special chord with many tales based on myth and legend. Water has such a deep hold on human consciousness (why we relax near tinkling water fountains: the unconscious knowledge that water is available.) Thus the two gods of water are, as you point out in this instance, very in touch with and interwoven closely with life and creation, even if other gods are more distant. We all know Ulmo the greatest long-game chessman; inspired perhaps by the many sea and water gods and goddesses of works like the Prose Edda (to the detail of every wave representing one of the Nine Daughters of the sea god). A people stirred by and connected to the sea, and later JRRT stirred by their legends. An interesting parallel to the Meditteranean lore that you reference here and examples of two pantheon representatives that react to humanity more intimately than the other deities that are further removed because of their connection to integral water.
In your conclusion, you write 'Injustice will have been found to be justified'. An excellent connect to the idea of the Gift of Men, and its mystery to all, even the wise Firstborn. I find it a nice tie-in to Turin's tale (with his thematic link to Kullervo) as well; as the injustice and pain of his life may, in the Second Prophecy of Mandos, be seen to finally have justice as he strikes back at Morgoth. Yet to us it remains an unknown, thus the definition of 'hope'.
The Third TORn Amateur Symposium kicks off this Sunday, April 13th, in the Reading Room. Come and join us for Tolkien-inspired writings!
**CoH Rem. Just sayin' **
(This post was edited by Brethil on Apr 21 2014, 8:57pm)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 21 2014, 9:15pm
Post #13 of 47
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He plays the Prometheus role in the sense of looking out for Elves and Men when other gods are busy elsewhere. Water is everywhere, and necessary, but isn't it kinda odd that Yavanna isn't as involved as Ulmo? She represents food, and you need that after you get a stable water supply. It's significant that she comes after Ulmo in concern for Middle-earth, but she doesn't give people dreams and tell them to found Gondolin and Nargothrond or commit other acts of divine intervention. Water, I suppose, is as primal as one can get. (What's the rule? I think you can live 20+ days without food but only 3 days without water. I don't plan to try either abstention, so I'll defer to someone who knows.)
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Brethil
Half-elven
Apr 21 2014, 9:29pm
Post #14 of 47
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You are correct about the relative needs of water versus food. So really I guess many of our legends and myths underline this fact, and thus speak of our crucial relationship with water?
Loving your avatar. Good to see Ulmo again.
The Third TORn Amateur Symposium kicks off this Sunday, April 13th, in the Reading Room. Come and join us for Tolkien-inspired writings!
**CoH Rem. Just sayin' **
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Terazed
Bree
Apr 21 2014, 10:46pm
Post #15 of 47
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Prometheus the prototypical romantic hero
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It is interesting that you bring up the Aeschylus's 'Prometheus Bound' in relation to Tolkien. Aeschylus is a good comparison. As a dramatist writing tragic cycles for the Feast of Dionysus he was attempting to take the old mythology and make it relevant for a modern audience during a religious festival of dramas. There is much written about this topic which could be discussed on how tragedy and mythology affect us, but I will pass over that topic. Nietzsche's 'Birth of Tragedy' is probably the easiest to come across and one of the most discussed.
What I want to bring out is that the Prometheus of "Prometheus Bound' became the great hero of the 19th century romantic movement. His likeness is seen in the works of all of the great writers and artists of the nineteenth century in the form of the romantic hero. The romantic hero is different from the modern heros we tend to think about. The romantic hero is either raised outside of or cast out from society. He or she always follows their own moral compass in defiance of a conventional society which is either amoral or unjust. Society views the romantic hero as a threat and rejects him or her. The romantic hero follows his/her own moral compass in defiance of society and eventually is destroyed by the flaws in their personality. Their death is usually seen as a complete failure but their story will oftentimes provide the basis for someone else to make a change that will improve society.
It is easy to see how Prometheus could become the great hero and role model of the progressives of the left. Obviously they wanted society to change for the better whether the cause be the establishment of democracy, limited government, and equal rights, or more radical causes such as the elimination of all government or private property.
My question is how does someone with right wing reactionary tendencies such as a Tolkien take to the Prometheus legend. You already brought up one Tolkinien Prometheus in Feonor. I want to bring up the other great Prometheus Tolkien created, Turin. Does Tolkien want Turin to be viewed by us as an absolute failure and a dire warning to us of the dangers of revolutionaries and leftists? Is Beleg a fool for following his heart and not his wisdom or a tragic figure to be pitied and emulated? Is Turin the necessary tragic failure that makes a better future possible? Is that why Turin's story makes up such a huge portion of SIl? Would Tolkien's more easily likable heros be possible if Turin didn't follow his moral compass against society even unto death or is he a dire warning for those heros not to emulate? These are more questions for a discussion of CoH but it isn't too early to start thinking of them.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 21 2014, 11:10pm
Post #16 of 47
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Hmmm. Was Turin on the right or left?
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Does Tolkien want Turin to be viewed by us as an absolute failure and a dire warning to us of the dangers of revolutionaries and leftists? I'm not sure how to classify Turin politically. He was born to an aristocratic family (Dor-Lomin), was raised in a royal court (Doriath), had a falling out with the king and became an outlaw, then eventually became very politically powerful in Nargothrond, able to have his own way even if the rightful king disagreed, sort of a de facto king. Then an outcast again, then, whatever he was in Brethil, a commoner, I suppose. So at some time or another, he seemed to play every role there was in society, but did he have any ideology other than his own interests? That's what I'm trying to understand. I think of a leftist as wanting to abolish the monarchy and liberate the serfs or tax the rich and support the poor or generally change the status quo, but he mostly did whatever pleased himself. People on the right usually want to preserve the status quo. I guess he seems apolitical to me.
Beleg, on the other hand, was clearly going against all The Rules out of fraternal love for Turin, and came to a tragic end, but I think he was noble throughout, and he was a good influence on Turin, actually. So maybe Beleg = Prometheus as the romantic hero?
Or as you say, we can bring this up in the CoH discussion which starts next week.
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Khim
Bree
Apr 21 2014, 11:23pm
Post #17 of 47
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A good answer to a challenging question.
I am Khim akin to Mim.
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Khim
Bree
Apr 21 2014, 11:31pm
Post #18 of 47
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An excellent tie-in to an interesting period, although I haven't thought much about it since the old University days.
You pose some interesting political questions, but I'll let others bandy that about.
P.S. I've heard you should avoid talking religion and politics. I'm avoiding politics, but I'm about to break the religion rule. See: "The Dyslexic Insomniac..."
I am Khim akin to Mim.
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Khim
Bree
Apr 21 2014, 11:38pm
Post #19 of 47
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...stayed up all night wondering if there really is a Dog.
[a note from the perpetrator]
I was a procrastinator in school, and wrote this paper under considerable pressure. With time I would have liked to include better documentation of Tolkien’s Northern sources. The Greek material I had on hand.
An important point to consider as a reader of my paper, is that I purposefully tried to limit the discussion to the works themselves, and source material I considered plausible and relevant to my argument. Now, I thought I should discuss Tolkien’s world view more broadly, considering the man and his sub-creation.
Benevolent Dictators?
noWizardme wrote, “Arda is, after all ultimately controlled by an apparently omnipotent and benign god.”
I agree that Middle-earth is watched over by a benign god, with the help of some kindly assistants, and long lines of wise and admirable royalty, both mortal and immortal. But I have my doubts about benign gods and philosopher kings, they seem too good to be true...but I admit they make great fiction.
Tolkien claimed he wrote stories to suit his taste, something he would like to read. In so doing he created a world he liked. A place to dwell on/in. To use his own metaphor he cooked a great soup, his intellect and studies were combined with his concerns and passions. When you mix an eccentric Oxford don who enjoyed beer with his pipe, a man concerned about the detrimental effects of the ongoing Industrial Revolution on people and the environment, and add a pinch of PTSD, you get Middle-earth. A world imbued with Tolkien’s sensibilities, including Catholicism.
I was raised Catholic, but by the time of my Confirmation I was a confirmed atheist, or rather a secular humanist. Many attempt to connect Tolkien’s Legendarium to his devout Christianity, I have never done so. Religion in LOTR is elusive, occurring almost behind the scenes. The Silmarillion is arguably the LOTR’s Bible, yet while the stories resemble the gods we are familiar with, they are unique to Tolkien, belonging to Middle-earth.
I believe what Tolkien did was to draw together diverse and divine aspects of purposeful creation, as a backdrop for stories that resonated with his sense of what is right. I’m not saying that was his intent, but simply part of his great imaginative achievement.
As a secular humanist I was powerfully moved by certain fundamental truths I recognized in these works. Among them that those willing to forgo self-interest, to act with honor and compassion toward others, or for a greater good, are to be admired, and if they are lucky, and/or survive, will be rewarded with friendship and loyalty. (And perhaps some unidentified fate beyond the confines of the world.) This message of selflessness is contrasted by portrayals of selfishness, characterized by lust for possessions and power.
Most religions have been tainted at one time or another with questionable adherents and/or conflicts with opposing beliefs. The beauty of Tolkien’s imagined universe and it’s pantheon, is that it has no blood on its hands, and as fiction no militant armies for or against. And its ethos shines clearly, to strive, even alone in what appears inevitable defeat, against those consumed by self-interest. Be good, help others, defy evil. I believe that through his creation of Middle-earth Tolkien communicated religious virtue, without the pitfalls of religious dogma.
I am Khim akin to Mim.
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Terazed
Bree
Apr 21 2014, 11:55pm
Post #20 of 47
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I meant less about politics then whether the future should be feared or looked forward to
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It is less meant to be a question about political parties and more a question about whether change is something that is to look forward to or be afraid of. Promethean type characters were used in the 19th century as a harbinger of change. Does Tolkien use Turin as a marker of change for the good or bad? In other words is he a dangerous harbinger of the fall of Beleriand or a foretaste of a future when men such as Aragorn will change the world for the better in a few thousand years?
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 22 2014, 12:32am
Post #21 of 47
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My own answer would be he's the harbinger of the bad changes that Men will wreak on the world, more of an anti-Aragorn. I won't go into fate vs free will since this isn't the place for it, just that he seemed to upset two Hidden Kingdoms of the Eldar, one to its ruin. Especially at Nargothrond his insistence on building a big, bold bridge that betrayed their hiding place seems like something a bull-headed industrialist would do. "Bird preserve? Let the birds go live somewhere else. This swamp is the perfect place for a jumbo-sized shopping mall surrounded by parking lots!"
Though his score as agent of change was just as bad with the Edain. In Dor-Lomin he tried to set his people free, but he couldn't do so single-handedly, and they rebuked him for his killing spree that they would suffer for since they weren't willing/able to flee the land like he was. Brethil was another isolationist realm that he shook up with his brash policy of confrontation. I'd say any change he represented wasn't for the good, though his intentions weren't evil.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 22 2014, 1:01am
Post #22 of 47
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Most religions have been tainted at one time or another with questionable adherents and/or conflicts with opposing beliefs. The beauty of Tolkien’s imagined universe and it’s pantheon, is that it has no blood on its hands, and as fiction no militant armies for or against. And its ethos shines clearly, to strive, even alone in what appears inevitable defeat, against those consumed by self-interest. Be good, help others, defy evil. I believe that through his creation of Middle-earth Tolkien communicated religious virtue, without the pitfalls of religious dogma. If I wore a hat, I would take it off to you.
Tolkien's world seems quasi-religious to me: it's got the virtue parts of religion but without the ceremony or hierarchy or spats about orthodoxy. That's probably why it appeals to and inspires people regardless of their religious outlook.
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Brethil
Half-elven
Apr 22 2014, 1:52am
Post #23 of 47
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The contrasts of Turin deepening the tragedy of Kullervo
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My own answer would be he's the harbinger of the bad changes that Men will wreak on the world, more of an anti-Aragorn. I won't go into fate vs free will since this isn't the place for it, just that he seemed to upset two Hidden Kingdoms of the Eldar, one to its ruin. Especially at Nargothrond his insistence on building a big, bold bridge that betrayed their hiding place seems like something a bull-headed industrialist would do. "Bird preserve? Let the birds go live somewhere else. This swamp is the perfect place for a jumbo-sized shopping mall surrounded by parking lots!"
Though his score as agent of change was just as bad with the Edain. In Dor-Lomin he tried to set his people free, but he couldn't do so single-handedly, and they rebuked him for his killing spree that they would suffer for since they weren't willing/able to flee the land like he was. Brethil was another isolationist realm that he shook up with his brash policy of confrontation. I'd say any change he represented wasn't for the good, though his intentions weren't evil.
By telling the tale based on the Finnish myth in the context of damaging the immortal Elves and their kingdoms, it seems to amplify the tragic nature of the original doesn't it? Widening the scope of the damage and the loss.
The Third TORn Amateur Symposium kicks off this Sunday, April 13th, in the Reading Room. Come and join us for Tolkien-inspired writings!
**CoH Rem. Just sayin' **
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Brethil
Half-elven
Apr 22 2014, 2:00am
Post #24 of 47
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It is less meant to be a question about political parties and more a question about whether change is something that is to look forward to or be afraid of. Promethean type characters were used in the 19th century as a harbinger of change. Does Tolkien use Turin as a marker of change for the good or bad? In other words is he a dangerous harbinger of the fall of Beleriand or a foretaste of a future when men such as Aragorn will change the world for the better in a few thousand years?
Interesting question.
Considering the basis for Turin, I don't know if JRRT has political feelings either way...it seems to be such a grafted tale, one that he could not help both writing and including in the Ardaic world. In relation to change it seems to stand a bit along; in general, I feel that JRRT's message (as a younger man) was that to resist change and growth is a basis for initiating fear that can turn to darkness. He holds forth about that in Letters, when he discusses the Elves both wanting to have their cake and eat it too, as well as their desire for 'embalming' Middle-earth, to prevent change. (Later, after the loss of Edith, he sounds a bit different.)
Off the cuff, my 'feel' is that the failed promise of Turin/Kullervo fits in as the harbinger of better things to come: a taste of what Men can be if they do not fail, while having a sad commentary on how difficult it might be to avoid that failure.
The Third TORn Amateur Symposium kicks off this Sunday, April 13th, in the Reading Room. Come and join us for Tolkien-inspired writings!
**CoH Rem. Just sayin' **
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 22 2014, 2:22am
Post #25 of 47
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What about Beren & Luthien? Do they count as Prometheans?
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They were social outcasts after they fell in love, and they brought about revolutionary change first by Luthien becoming mortal, second by introducing a mixed Eldar/Maiar bloodline into the gene pool of the heroic caste, and third by shaking up all of Beleriand by their victory over Morgoth and inspiring the great, renewed alliance against him (the Nirnaeth). That alliance came to a bad end overall, and specifically led to the curse on Hurin's family, but revolutions often don't always turn out well.
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