|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 19 2014, 3:15pm
Post #1 of 18
(1211 views)
Shortcut
|
|
BoFA arsenal (What can we expect?)
|
Can't Post
|
|
So the battle (which I'm looking forward to), and hopefully, centrepiece of part 3 of the trilogy called The Hobbit. We know of Peter Jackson's interest in WWII and he can stage spectacular wars. If there's no changes to the plan, we should see the battle come December. What will the various armies bring to the war theatre? Even though this is a open theatre, and the original intent was a gold-grab, and so there isn't any indication that a siege would be necessary to any parties (excluding possibly Dain since he was going to Thorin's aid) will we see engines of war like in the battles in the LotR trilogy?
Weaponry that can be expected/is possible (based on what's in AUJ and DOS and the books):
Free People
- Elves: Spears, Bow and Arrows, Swords
- Major Elves (Twin weapons seem to be a theme for Mirkwood's heavies)
- Thranduil: twin swords (as seen in the BTS footage)
- Legolas: bow and arrows, twin white knives he wears on his back (+ Orcist?)
- Tauriel: Similar to Legolas, except no Orcist or other fancy sword
- Men: swords, bows and arrows
- Dwarves:
- Dain, half a thousand dwarves with broad swords, and mattocks
- Thorin's party: assorted axes, swords, bows and arrows
- Eagles: Talons and sniper ability
- Beorn: Rage, tooth and claws
The other side
- Goblins: Usual assortment of hammers, maces, swords and what wickedness John Howe and Alan Lee dreams up with WETA
- Wargs: Tooth and claws
- Assorted raptors not aligned with the eagles: scavengers and ring-side audience
Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 19 2014, 3:16pm)
|
|
|
SirDennisC
Half-elven
Apr 19 2014, 4:16pm
Post #2 of 18
(929 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Some engines were built in the field
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
If memory serves, Men and Elves were encamped long enough to have built some simple machines such as mangonels and basic trebuchets (the later almost always being built in the field). Specialized components could be carried to the place of battle while the rest of the materials sourced from the environment.
If lacking a windlass, mangonels can be set by horse; light trebuchets can be fired by a few men in place of a counterweight.
Of course ladders and rams were usually made in the field as well.
|
|
|
Name
Rohan
Apr 19 2014, 5:08pm
Post #3 of 18
(892 views)
Shortcut
|
I really don't think there will be many war machines. There isn't a siege by the orcs, so I don't see the use of anything large, like siege towers, ladders, etc. Maybe some catapults, but not much from the "bad guys". The men on the other hand may attempt to lay siege to Erebor, but by the looks of Erebor in the movie I don't really think there is any point of siege machines, although once again catapults could possibly work.
I expect there to be a lot of strategic warfare once the battle actually starts, more like actual warfare where one side tries to take/claim key points on the battlefield. This would be unlike anything we have previously seen in ME battles. It should prove to be very interesting. 
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
|
|
|
BlackFox
Half-elven
Apr 19 2014, 5:17pm
Post #4 of 18
(876 views)
Shortcut
|
"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
Name
Rohan
Apr 19 2014, 5:23pm
Post #5 of 18
(862 views)
Shortcut
|
Unfortunately not my own creation, I found that joke one day scrolling through the comments on one of theonering.net's headline stories. 
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
(This post was edited by Name on Apr 19 2014, 5:27pm)
|
|
|
Arandir
Gondor
Apr 19 2014, 7:21pm
Post #6 of 18
(854 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Perhaps some type of orc ballista against the eagles?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Although the eagles come in late (and unexpectedly) to the battle, PJ might want to create a counter-attack for Orcs to be able to defend themselves - rather than being completely helpless.
This would create even more tension and make audiences aware that eagles are not indestructible.
Richard Armitage mentioned the eagles vs bats (WWI) sequence, but I'm guessing we may see some orc weapons used against the winged creatures.
Other than that, I seriously doubt we'll get any machinery of the sort.
A good old hand-to-hand battle is the way to do it - with a fair share of arrow-power of course 
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Why we Love 'Sherlock'
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 19 2014, 8:13pm
Post #7 of 18
(853 views)
Shortcut
|
Tolkien wrote that each of Dain's folk were armored with knee-length hauberks, hose of fine metal mesh, and iron caps and boots. They carried heavy, two-handed mattocks and short swords, with roundshields slung across their backs.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea
Apr 19 2014, 8:53pm
Post #8 of 18
(831 views)
Shortcut
|
|
i really want to see a orc/goblin alliance/army
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
the goblins from the misty mountains seen in AUJ with the orcs of dol-guldur plus i would love to see some spiders in the mix!
The flames of war are upon you.
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 20 2014, 1:14pm
Post #9 of 18
(745 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Would ladders and rams be useful?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Where do you see the use for these, SirDennisC? Thorin's party was on high, and by the looks of it, they had all the advantages of terrain, what with the front gate being all but unassailable. It seemed like it would be a basic sit 'em out siege for the men and elves until Dain and the goblins came into the picture. Even with the resulting shuffling and alliance, the theatre, being the mountain/valley, still seemed more a more open one that sees better relevance for direct assault engines like the catapult types you mentioned, and some sort of scaled-down windlass (maybe to take out the circling flocks of unsavouries)?
Or would the ladders and rams be useful for strikeforces to take out the goblin positions on higher ground. That is, assuming the battle setting follows the book of course. Now that I think about it, that bts scene of Thranduil wielding his twin swords was on cobbled streets, so if the theatre is moved or expanded/extended to include Laketown or Dale, assorted siege engines could come into play. And that would be interesting indeed.
--------------------------
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 20 2014, 1:19pm
Post #10 of 18
(736 views)
Shortcut
|
No arguments from me with your take. Though as mentioned to SirDennisC, that bts of Thranduil cutting down orcs with his twin swords was in cobbled streets, so if the battleground includes Dale or Laketown (more likely Dale since there wasn't much street we saw in Laketown) then those engines may still feature in some way. It will be interesting for sure!
PS: LoL at your sig.
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 20 2014, 1:20pm)
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 20 2014, 1:24pm
Post #11 of 18
(741 views)
Shortcut
|
I guess there would collateral damage on the assorted flying creatures swirling around, but most of the lot would be with the goblins anyway so who cares if they get hit by friendly fire eh?
Although the eagles come in late (and unexpectedly) to the battle, PJ might want to create a counter-attack for Orcs to be able to defend themselves - rather than being completely helpless.
This would create even more tension and make audiences aware that eagles are not indestructible.
Richard Armitage mentioned the eagles vs bats (WWI) sequence, but I'm guessing we may see some orc weapons used against the winged creatures.
Definitely looking forward to the old-school melee!
A good old hand-to-hand battle is the way to do it
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 20 2014, 1:26pm)
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 20 2014, 1:31pm
Post #12 of 18
(743 views)
Shortcut
|
I just assumed war attire was a basic given. Though, now I wonder. Would the Lakemen get properly outfitted? They did have that armoury Thorin and company tried to filch from. Dain's troops will be appropriately attired since they would be coming for battle. Thorin's 13 would probably scrounge up some stuff from the hoard. The elves certainly seemed like they will be, from the various bts shots, quite unlike the fashion disaster in the Last Alliance. The goblins and assorted unsavouries will be as they always are, ready for scrimmage.
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 20 2014, 1:33pm)
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 20 2014, 1:43pm
Post #13 of 18
(736 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Dwarven shields were an important detail.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Also, your description of the swords of the Iron Hills Dwarves implied longer weapons than indicated. I just wanted to clarify the matter.
The equipment of the Lake-town men would be what was worn during Smaug's attack plus whatever could be salvaged from the destruction of Lake-town. The Wood-elves may have had some gear to spare, but I assume that they were traveling light.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 20 2014, 2:32pm
Post #14 of 18
(719 views)
Shortcut
|
I did omit the descriptive "short" before broadsword in my checklist.
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 20 2014, 2:34pm)
|
|
|
SirDennisC
Half-elven
Apr 20 2014, 6:07pm
Post #15 of 18
(704 views)
Shortcut
|
Although Tolkien had the Men and Elves encamped about the gates of Erebor, it did not appear they had any intention of "storming the castle" as it were. So no, I do not think ladders and rams should be made.
However, for dramatic effect the filmmakers may like it to appear that a proper siege with intent is in place.
(?)
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 21 2014, 3:31am
Post #16 of 18
(678 views)
Shortcut
|
Yeah, it would be silly for the elves and men to be storming the party, given the design of that front gate... but also it is quite a moot point by the time they got there since Smaug has broken the gates on his way out. Why waste time making equipment that's not going to see some abuse?
I do feel that for the dramatic effect the filmmakers might be wanting to include, some sort of scrimmage against the goblin forces in Dale would be more likely. And if some machinery is brought to bear, it may well be from the goblin side. It would be a bit much to have elves and men catapulting themselves into the melee, I think. Man or elf tossing doesn't quite have the same impact as dwarf tossing. We'll see, I guess.
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 22 2014, 8:21am
Post #17 of 18
(634 views)
Shortcut
|
But which battle will this alliance fight? The mountain guys will probably aim for the treasure-grab. The Dol Guldur ones will likely be tied up with the inhouse battle. There's a conflict of interest/plotpoint here?
But I like the idea of the spiders
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 22 2014, 8:28am
Post #18 of 18
(637 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Some information on the arsenal packed by members of Thorin's party
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Courtesy of Heirs of Durin:
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III
|
|
|
|
|
