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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
EXCLUSIVE - The Hobbit: There and Back Again may become The Hobbit: Into the Fire?
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News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net

Apr 16 2014, 8:06am

Post #1 of 63 (2022 views)
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EXCLUSIVE - The Hobbit: There and Back Again may become The Hobbit: Into the Fire? Can't Post

A little bird came knocking today, and whispered some intriguing -- and slightly baffling -- news into our ears. Ringer Spy The Knocking Thrush, who is a reliable source, dropped us a line to let us know that New Line have registered a new title: The Hobbit: Into the Fire. But for what?

A quick reminder of the history of The Hobbit movie titles may be in order!





  • Back when we thought we were only getting two movies, the titles were to be An Unexpected Journey and There and Back Again.

  • In July of 2012 the decision was made to make three films, with An Unexpected Journey still as the first title, but unknown titles for the next two films.

  • Then we heard -- from our same reliable source -- that New Line had registered two new names -- The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug and The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies. These titles seemed pretty clearly suited to┬ parts two and three of a trilogy -- so one might have thought There and Back Again was gone.

  • By August 2012, however, it seemed that the titles were set as The Desolation of Smaug for part two, with There and Back Again retained for the third and final part. This title for part three seemed to be confirmed in other, later press releases, such as the one confirming the move of the release date from Summer to December 2014, as reported here. The Battle of Five Armies title had come to nothing -- and There and Back Again has been used by press, cast, and all when discussing the film which will come out at the end of this year.





Now, we hear that New Line has registered this further title, The Hobbit: Into the Fire. What does this mean? Previiously, The Knocking Thursh told us that -- quoting from this post -- 'because they must register their eventual title, studios often register multiple titles.'

One could believe that, back in 2012, The Battle of Five Armies was simply a 'just in case' extra title; but why would there be a need for such a 'maybe' title at this stage?

Staffer Demosthenes has some ideas...

Could There And Back Again simply have been a holding title for the past 18 months?

Brand is incredibly important to studios (just as it is to most multinationals). It seems to defy logic that New Line (and I guess Warner Bros and MGM) would abandon a name that's built up a great deal of recognition among keen fans and casual moviegoers to the point where there's an acronym for it -- TABA.

It might be that they believe the title is confusing. After all, the Company is already There (ie: Erebor). But it's just as logical to interpret the word there as referring to being there as it is to think that it must mean the act of travelling to there. I don't think it's really that confusing as a title.

Or maybe it's a nod to the chapter of The Hobbit Out of the Frying, Into The Fire. We've seen dialogue get reapportioned in entirely different contexts (sometimes by different speakers to the novels) in this way before. But I can't see why they'd abandon There And Back Again -- part of the novel's title -- merely to do that.

Once you really think about it, Into The Fire actually seems a better fit for the events that we've just witnessed in The Desolation of Smaug, not what we'll see in the final film. Bilbo and Thorin have already experienced their trial by fire.

Alternatively, maybe New Line is planning some movie tie-in we don't yet know about, and need to reserve intellectual property rights. I guess we'll have to wait and see what, if anything, comes of this.



(This post was edited by entmaiden on Apr 16 2014, 9:39pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 16 2014, 1:59pm

Post #2 of 63 (1043 views)
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It would make a good title for a fourth bridge film. ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't imagine they'll change There And Back Again - it's just perfect as the title.



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 16 2014, 2:04pm

Post #3 of 63 (1028 views)
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Video Game or Book Title [In reply to] Can't Post

This could be for a video game or for a "making-of" book.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 2:14pm

Post #4 of 63 (985 views)
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It *is* perfect. They don't need to change it! [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps that's why they've not released any more Production Videos...

If we were to go by Captain Jack Sparrow and his lot, the problem would be solved: "Hang the Title!"
(You could just picture Warner Bros, New Line, and Peter Jackson sitting there arguing in the Bretherin Court...) Laugh

..The Lord of Silver Fountains
.....The King of Carven Stone
..The King Under the Mountain
.......Shall come into his own

..And the bells will ring in gladness
......At the Mountain King's return
..But all shall fail in sadness
....And the lake will shine and burn


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 16 2014, 2:16pm

Post #5 of 63 (970 views)
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Does not compute, branding wise [In reply to] Can't Post

TABA has been brandished about too much for a change at this point, hasn't it?


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Bernhardina
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 2:17pm

Post #6 of 63 (981 views)
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I hope it isn't true [In reply to] Can't Post

It's yet another cash grab and I don't like it. Even if the title is not bad I wan't TABA to remain TABA, it's perfect for the last movie Frown but non-Tolkien-fans may not want to go to a movie that spoils the ending with the title so I guess that's why they would change it. Like I said, money grab. I'd much rather have it called "The Hobbit - The Battle of Five Armies", but most I want it to be called TABA.



Bernhardina
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 2:18pm

Post #7 of 63 (977 views)
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Maybe a fourth movie? [In reply to] Can't Post

Prepare yourselves everyone! A bomb is falling Wink



(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Apr 16 2014, 2:19pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 16 2014, 2:22pm

Post #8 of 63 (953 views)
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If I were in the advertisement team ... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
TABA has been brandished about too much for a change at this point, hasn't it?


I'd say it was a good move. Think of all the free movie advertisement they would get - every popular media, movie, and celebrity website would have the news that "Third Hobbit Movie Renamed!" Changing the title would be just as effective in drawing in interest, as putting out a new poster, vlog, or screencap would.



DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 16 2014, 2:24pm

Post #9 of 63 (966 views)
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Spoilers? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It's yet another cash grab and I don't like it. Even if the title is not bad I wan't TABA to remain TABA, it's perfect for the last movie Frown but non-Tolkien-fans may not want to go to a movie that spoils the ending with the title so I guess that's why they would change it. Like I said, money grab. I'd much rather have it called "The Hobbit - The Battle of Five Armies", but most I want it to be called TABA.


The only spoiler that could be taken from the current title is that Bilbo survives the Quest and returns to the Shire. But we already know that he survives from the AUJ prologue (and the LOTR movies). The title doesn't give anything away we don't already know.



(This post was edited by DanielLB on Apr 16 2014, 2:25pm)


Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 16 2014, 2:30pm

Post #10 of 63 (941 views)
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This wouldn't make a whole ton of sense. [In reply to] Can't Post

Both titles explicitly refer to the Hobbit. A "bridge film" wouldn't have either of those titles...

Unless PJ has determined he has enough footage for ANOTHER Hobbit movie... I wouldn't complain at all, but a LOT of critics will be grabbing their pitchforks and yelling cash grab.

Realistically, it's probably a video game or book :)



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 16 2014, 2:31pm

Post #11 of 63 (914 views)
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,,, seems to make some sense, that line of thought... [In reply to] Can't Post

So that could be why we're not getting any whiff of the trailer or any news from the production team about movie 3 so far... okaay. We'll just have to wait and see what comes of it I guess. Still a damn weird thing.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Bernhardina
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 2:39pm

Post #12 of 63 (899 views)
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You are right [In reply to] Can't Post

... but I think that the filmmakers believe that people who are not fans won't go and see the last Hobbit movie if it is called something like "There and Back Again" because just like when they showed the ninja elves in the teasers for DOS, they know that action draws a larger audience. "Into the fire" is a very action-based title that would perhaps convince more people to go and watch the movie in December. I don't think this is the case, I think people will go watch the movie anyway, but maybe the producers think the title need to be more like "the Desolation of Smaug" which is such a cool title compared to "There and Back Again"... this was my first thought when I read the post anyway Unimpressed



(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Apr 16 2014, 2:40pm)


TheHutt
Gondor


Apr 16 2014, 2:47pm

Post #13 of 63 (941 views)
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Some polls... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the brand is pure gold.

Also, I started some polls in the Russian LOTR-themed social communities where I post our Henneth-Annun news. Just in 9 minutes' time:

Community 1 (~100000 users):
#


Community 2: (~30000 users)




Community 2: (~10000 users)



The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet Project



wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Apr 16 2014, 3:02pm

Post #14 of 63 (903 views)
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That's a really good point [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't think of that at all, but I bet you're right! It would make a lot of sense for a video game, etc.

keep smiling Smile


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 16 2014, 3:06pm

Post #15 of 63 (870 views)
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Or a documentary [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit: Into the Fire does not sound like a good movie title to me; but, it might work fine for a documentary or some other video special feature.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 16 2014, 3:09pm

Post #16 of 63 (875 views)
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Only thing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Warner themselves haven't registered any titles for the books/games that have already come out, right? It would have to be a title of something that Warner themselves produce, no?



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 16 2014, 3:18pm

Post #17 of 63 (861 views)
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Bonus Feature [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Warner themselves haven't registered any titles for the books/games that have already come out, right? It would have to be a title of something that Warner themselves produce, no?



That suggests to me that this is a bonus feature for TH:DoS-EE, probably for the end-credits song.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 16 2014, 3:28pm

Post #18 of 63 (835 views)
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Hmm, interesting. [In reply to] Can't Post

They haven't gone so far as to do that for any other special features though (like "New Zealand: Home of Middle-earth").

Maybe this one will just be that spectacular :P



book Gandalf
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 3:31pm

Post #19 of 63 (842 views)
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hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

i very much doubt the name change, its too similar to lots of things, and TABA is well established.

though i still wouldnt dismiss a fourth film, i definitely see a money grab on the horizon somewhere, which would be a bitter ending to the franchise.

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Apr 16 2014, 3:48pm

Post #20 of 63 (881 views)
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My immediate reaction was... [In reply to] Can't Post

why the heck do they want a title that could be confused with "Catching Fire"???


But may be that's the point..... Crazy


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
» Victoria Monfort


Name
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 3:49pm

Post #21 of 63 (830 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew the infamous "money grab" idea was going to come up again. Then again, doesn't it always come up whenever PJ makes a decision?

I think we all gotta calm down. Wayyyy down............Wayyyy wayyyy down............down.....down...............DOWN DOWN TO..................nvm.

My name is Name, which, name-wise, is a much better name than your first name, last name, or name's name could ever plan on naming themselves.


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 16 2014, 3:54pm

Post #22 of 63 (806 views)
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I do not like that title [In reply to] Can't Post

TABA is a very nice one,especially for the Tolkien fans.An alternative title for the third movie i would personally be happy with is "The Battle of Five Armies".Relevant and catchy at the same time,not to mention an "attraction" especially if the marketing focuses much on that event.

"Obsession is the trend of the 2000's"

(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Apr 16 2014, 3:56pm)


Cillendor
Lorien


Apr 16 2014, 3:57pm

Post #23 of 63 (820 views)
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There's no way they could make a fourth film with the existing footage. [In reply to] Can't Post

Richard Armitage said recently in an interview that he expects There and Back Again to be shorter than the previous two films. Even if they reserve some footage for an extended edition (which I supremely hope), they still surely couldn't pull another film out of it.

The only exception is if they make an entire movie out of Balin's quest to retake Moria, though I cannot see that being successful.


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 16 2014, 4:08pm

Post #24 of 63 (774 views)
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Yup! [In reply to] Can't Post

That idea comes every now and then giving the opportunity to all the parrots and automatons of the internet to reproduce it with every chance they get.Unfortunately,all these years,Jackson has "spoilt" way too much this particular fan base/fandom by giving away so many things about the film production which has been proved to be quite detrimental.The amount of bashing/bitching and whining beforehand and afterwards by the fandom these movies are directed to is rather shocking.

"Obsession is the trend of the 2000's"


Name
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 4:10pm

Post #25 of 63 (785 views)
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Well...... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
"The only exception is if they make an entire movie out of Balin's quest to retake Moria, though I cannot see that being successful."

Marvel can and will make that happen. Balin and Thor can team up against the Balrog. I'd pay to see that in 3D.

"Thank goodness!" said Bilbo laughing, and handed him the tobacco-jar.

Screen cuts to black - 10 seconds of black screen

Black screen ends. Flash-forward of Balin holding off Moria goblins with a fully automatic machine gun. Balin's screams can be heard over the gunfire.

Screen cuts to black - "Directed By Peter Jackson" appears on screen. END


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