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Nerven
Rivendell
Apr 13 2014, 4:14pm
Post #51 of 210
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Also congrats to Thranduil, King of Sass, winner of March Madness and even beating the likes of Galadriel, Aragorn and Bilbo, not to mention his own son. Hopefully PJ and the other producers will have realized by now how popular and perfect Thranduil is and give him more screentime in the EE and in TABA.
How unrealistic that people think Thranduil might be able to beat Aragon or even Galadriel, Galadriel was greatest and mightiest of the remaining elves and that´s canon.
And since when is Thranduil high elf? He doesn´t come from Aman.
(This post was edited by Nerven on Apr 13 2014, 4:22pm)
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jkm7
Bree
Apr 13 2014, 5:23pm
Post #52 of 210
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Apparently Thranduil is meant to be Middle Earths best sword fighter, we just haven't seen him in battle just yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.
Plus March Madness never was about realism, it's just fun ^^
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Rowan Greene
Lorien
Apr 13 2014, 6:09pm
Post #54 of 210
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He did beat them......in this thing called March Madness, as in a game. It was all for fun and he probably won because he was so well-received by fans. I love the character--he's probably my favorite! (But I also love Galadriel, Legolas, Aragorn, Bilbo, Pippin, Boromir, Lord Elrond, Smaug, etc. etc. etc.)
Also congrats to Thranduil, King of Sass, winner of March Madness and even beating the likes of Galadriel, Aragorn and Bilbo, not to mention his own son. Hopefully PJ and the other producers will have realized by now how popular and perfect Thranduil is and give him more screentime in the EE and in TABA. How unrealistic that people think Thranduil might be able to beat Aragon or even Galadriel, Galadriel was greatest and mightiest of the remaining elves and that´s canon. And since when is Thranduil high elf? He doesn´t come from Aman.
(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Apr 13 2014, 6:13pm)
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Apr 13 2014, 9:08pm
Post #55 of 210
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I'm currently taking a developmental psychology course and there was a small section about how your brain works differently if you learn a second language as a child than if you learn it as an adult. Apparently, if you learn a second language when you are very young, your brain stores that language in the same area as your first language, so when you switch back and forth between languages, you are only activating the one part of your brain. However, if you learn a second language as an adult, your brain stores the language in a different part of your brain than your first language, so when you switch back and forth, you are also having to activate two different parts of your brain at the same time.
Only a few adults (like those people who eventually become professional translators) get lucky and for some reason their brains continue to store the second (and third, fourth, etc) language in the same part of their brains as their first language and only have to activate the one part of their brain. I'm not sure if they know why that happens yet, but I think it's interesting that it works that way.
"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 14 2014, 1:19pm
Post #59 of 210
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So cool to spend time in ME itself. Someday I hope to go too.
Wow... good harvest eh?
If you don't mind, is there is anything in there about Thranduil's weaponry? As you might have noticed, I have taken quite a fancy to that beautiful sword, and the partial sheath he wears to hold it in the orc interrogation scene.
but I did pick up Weta's Chronicles 2 and 3 'from the source'
another endorsement, thanks for sharing. I gotta move this flick up the list!
I would have joined in to say I have just watched 'Possession' and was equally enthralled by how LP played that bad boy.
I suppose that line ties in with his Fisher King inspiration. I don't know if you're aware: there was a TORn article a ringer wrote in response to his mention of the Fisher King and Oberon that expands on this quite well I thought.
And thanks also for posting the interview above with Lee Pace. Lots of good stuff there. I am musing on this line in particular:
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But he is also sensitive, and I don’t mean emotionally sensitive. I mean, I believe that not a leaf moves in that forest that he doesn’t feel.
Glad to know there's someone else in thralldom who appreciates the finer discussion that was taking place, actually with much thanks to Vanima for taking the time to response. 
Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 14 2014, 1:27pm
Post #60 of 210
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It would explain a lot. Would be interesting to analyse the brain activity of people who are fluent in a foreign language learnt at different stages of life, and also comparing those who grew monolingual and those who were speaking 2 or languages. And as someone who didn't know the alphabet until I was about four/five and yet calls English my first language, I'd be interested in studies on the spontaneous cross-signalling that occurs (at least it seems common around these parts) for childhood multilinguists and the impact of adding new languages to the mix.
Thanks for the scientific factoid, Eruvandi.
Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Apr 14 2014, 2:24pm
Post #62 of 210
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I like the "elflings are hard work" one best.
"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United
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RandomSilvanElf
The Shire
Apr 14 2014, 2:26pm
Post #63 of 210
(13823 views)
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PHILIPPA BOYENS: (...)What’s interesting about that is there is a kind hierarchy among the Elves of Mirkwood. There are the High Elves, which are Thranduil and Legolas, and then there are the more lowly, more earthy Elves, the Silvan Elves. Tauriel is a Silvan Elf. She’s very much an Elf of Middle-earth, whereas the High Elves have come from somewhere else across the seas, and they are slightly more ethereal.
That is one of the things that I dislike in this movie interpretation. First of all, although Sindarin Elves, meaning Thranduil and his kin, were Eldar -agreed to follow the Valar to their land overseas, they never really left it as they stop at some point of their journey, so saying that they came from overseas is simply wrong (some other Elves did, e.g. Galadriel was in Valinor),
Moreover, those Elves(meaning Oropher, Thranduil father and his followers) moved back to their Silvan cousins to follow their simple way of life, take their customs and mingle with them, so to assume that their created complicated social structures to distinguish themselves from them doesn't seem right. Even if Thranduil was the king, it still doesn't seem if it would matter to him if his son falls for Sindarin or Silvan elf. Especially when he obviously loved and cared deeply for all of his people (I mean elves :) ). For me that scene with Tauriel was just confusing. (especially after watching it for x times, just to absorb Thranduil greatness)
LEE PACE: He has history with Thorin’s father, Thorin’s father’s father, and Thorin’s father’s father’s father. He knows them all. And, as you remember in the prologue, there was a little bit of a look between Thranduil and Thorin’s grandfather. What that look is about is, ‘I see all this wealth you’re accumulating, and you’re going to burn. You are hoarding away a mountain of gold, and no good will come of it.’ That’s the wisdom of the Elves; that’s what they know. It’s not his business to tell the Dwarves how to run their lives, but it is his business to protect his people and to survive. That’s the obligation of the immortal.
And that is why Lee Pace is such an amazing Thranduil and was recognized since AUJ. He can describe the whole story and motivation behind a look that lasted seconds in a movie. ^_^
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vanima ephel
Rivendell
Apr 14 2014, 11:01pm
Post #65 of 210
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Sometimes canon can go either way (especialy when it's so sparse :/ )
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Re: Oropher
Canon-wise, we don't get any insight any influence Oropher (Legolas=Leggy, Thranduil=Thrandy, Oropher=Orry?) might have on Thranduil's treasure greed, do we?
I'd have to say no. But.... You can say that he didn't like Dwarves or Noldor Elves. And, both of those groups were known for their skill in crafting jewelry (among other things), while Oropher's Silvan Elves were not. You could then assume that he felt that lack? And that Thranduil picked up on it?
(The diminutives for Elven names are adorable, but... Orry? I can't help thinking OrryNorryDorry when I see it.  )
Re: Thranduil (How about Wild Thing instead of Thrandy?  )
It is interesting that Thranduil does nothing else except for the tradeoff he proposed to Thorin in their faceoff to get the gems back, no waterboarding etc (which is a fortuitous bit of canon adherence imo).
Torturing Durin's heir could create the possibility for a war with the Dwarves, if word got out (maybe depending on whether or not the movie version's Dwarves also consider him the re-incarnation of Durin himself).
Also, in the AUJ prologue sequence, he did not go ballistic and snatch that treasure box, even though he could make off with it easily enough.
But, again, it could have led to a battle, if not a war. Especially if what Smaug says of the Arkenstone's influence on the Dwarves is true. (Everybody seems to have their own Dark Influence in this neck of the woods.)
And if that is linked to Lee's inspiration from Oberon and the Fisher King ("They’re not like people. They don’t understand things like people. They’re more like a blizzard, or a very old tree, or a bear, or a tiger. They’re wild things."), the concept of the link between king and land, then Mirkwood's sickness corrupting his heart, and Lee's mention (somewhere else I think) that Thranduil is aware of what's happening but can't stop the process, then I guess it ties in to his apparent greed on the surface. Which of course then resolves itself (hopefully) in TABA when the story of the White Gems is revealed and the Necromancer cast out from Dol Guldor.
I remember reading that bit somewhere, though Thranduil seems able to keep the corruption down to a General Bad Temper and Testiness Regarding Trespassers rather than the provocation that the Dwarven king offered him (with the not-offer of the Gems). I suppose you could also say it prompted him to leave the Dwarves to the Dragon. (And, maybe, that corruption also leads him to warn Tauriel off Legolas, because you wouldn't expect Oropher's son to be so prejudiced against his Sylvan Elves, based on the book description of how he adopts their way of life and seems to avoid other groups of Elves.)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the above seem like indications to the importance of those gems to him vis-a-vis the garden variety treasure, and at the same time demonstrate his greed may be different than what we see at face-value.
Yup, I too expect that will continue (with emphasis on the "different than what we see at face-value") when we (I hope) see some kind of reconciliation between Thorin and Thranduil in TaBA. (And Wild Thing's patience will pay off and he'll get those Gems of Pure Starlight.) I also hope they'll be some kind of satisfactory resolution of the Tuariel Problem (but I'm not sure PJ and Co. see Thranduil keeping the Sylvan and Sindarin lines separate as a problem).
"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."
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vanima ephel
Rivendell
Apr 14 2014, 11:27pm
Post #66 of 210
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But Best Friends wins!
Too bad we won't ever be treated to an end-of-credits Easter Egg of Lee Pace's Thranduil reacting to Gimli accompanying Legolas to the Grey Havens.
Actually, that might be kind of teary. :/
"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."
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vanima ephel
Rivendell
Apr 14 2014, 11:42pm
Post #67 of 210
(13770 views)
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I was just reading that bit in The History, myself
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And I was assuming it was down to the influence of the Mirk in Mirkwood. But I've only read the Lee Pace interviews Lurker gave in that post, so far. I guess this means it's another canon change for the movies by PJ and Co. :/
Here's hoping it get's cleared up anyway - somehow - in TaBA.
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PHILIPPA BOYENS: (...)What’s interesting about that is there is a kind hierarchy among the Elves of Mirkwood. There are the High Elves, which are Thranduil and Legolas, and then there are the more lowly, more earthy Elves, the Silvan Elves. Tauriel is a Silvan Elf. She’s very much an Elf of Middle-earth, whereas the High Elves have come from somewhere else across the seas, and they are slightly more ethereal.
That is one of the things that I dislike in this movie interpretation. First of all, although Sindarin Elves, meaning Thranduil and his kin, were Eldar -agreed to follow the Valar to their land overseas, they never really left it as they stop at some point of their journey, so saying that they came from overseas is simply wrong (some other Elves did, e.g. Galadriel was in Valinor),
Moreover, those Elves(meaning Oropher, Thranduil father and his followers) moved back to their Silvan cousins to follow their simple way of life, take their customs and mingle with them, so to assume that their created complicated social structures to distinguish themselves from them doesn't seem right. Even if Thranduil was the king, it still doesn't seem if it would matter to him if his son falls for Sindarin or Silvan elf. Especially when he obviously loved and cared deeply for all of his people (I mean elves :) ). For me that scene with Tauriel was just confusing. (especially after watching it for x times, just to absorb Thranduil greatness)
"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."
(This post was edited by vanima ephel on Apr 14 2014, 11:45pm)
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 15 2014, 12:02pm
Post #70 of 210
(13735 views)
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And its always great to hear opinions
I'll admit to having this one fly over my head when I first read it because my ME memories have been on a bit of a hibernation  Too, the first time I saw DOS and Thranduil's elitism popped up, I was simply going "Oh great, make the King the jerk for being the obstacle in the unrequited(?) affair, what a cop-out way to create tension in the Leggy/Tauriel romance."
Though it was a really odd thing with a King who knows his mandate of rule and does things like turning away when Erebor was being laid to waste before his eyes because his priority is his people (Elves ). Even without taking into account the canon we know from Tolkien's work.
But going back to this bit in the interview, it does seem like there's a few things going on here, and I see it as revolving around the fact that the Silm is out of reach to PJ and crew but there's stuff that the team sees as great inference/reference for the story they want to tell and want to incorporate. We see the shades of that in movie Thranduil's backstory with the white gems and dragon fighting. It seems like they see playing off the different Elves helps the story. But rather than go into the complexities of all these differences, which is quite impossible with the Silm being untouchable, they went with the route of amalgamation and made 2 Elf classes. I hope it's not... especially if its just to serve the romance, it's such a lot to throwaway for an (IMO mismanaged at the least) inserted subplot (and it burns all future bridges should PJ and crew, or be involved in some way in getting the Silm to screen and they want the thematic continuity). But it would be easier to explain to the the non-fandom world, as Philippa did here without muddying the water too much further than it has become. But I can't understand why else they would do this. Actually, in fact, they did not even need to emphasize the different Elves: ruler vs subject would be enough for the general audience. i bet the "lowly Silvan elf" bit got non-fan viewers going "Huh? Whaa? Aren't they all just Elves?"
Annnnnd, the gestalt that seems to be Thranduil's backstory: I'm still betting this bit of snobbery is a symptom of the corruption of Mirkwood affecting him and we should see some sort of resolution in TABA. (fingers crossed!)
That is one of the things that I dislike in this movie interpretation. First of all, although Sindarin Elves, meaning Thranduil and his kin, were Eldar -agreed to follow the Valar to their land overseas, they never really left it as they stop at some point of their journey, so saying that they came from overseas is simply wrong (some other Elves did, e.g. Galadriel was in Valinor),
Moreover, those Elves(meaning Oropher, Thranduil father and his followers) moved back to their Silvan cousins to follow their simple way of life, take their customs and mingle with them, so to assume that their created complicated social structures to distinguish themselves from them doesn't seem right. Even if Thranduil was the king, it still doesn't seem if it would matter to him if his son falls for Sindarin or Silvan elf. Especially when he obviously loved and cared deeply for all of his people (I mean elves :) ). For me that scene with Tauriel was just confusing. (especially after watching it for x times, just to absorb Thranduil greatness)
No argument from me there. It is really such a missed opportunity that Thranduil wasn't featured as much as he should be as the central Elf in this story. So there's only the EE and TABA left to hope that things will improve.
And that is why Lee Pace is such an amazing Thranduil and was recognized since AUJ. He can describe the whole story and motivation behind a look that lasted seconds in a movie. ^_^
Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 15 2014, 2:26pm
Post #71 of 210
(13737 views)
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The resulting potential and fluidity is so interesting
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I did a bit of nosing around online resources. The Silvan of Mirkwood did not seem to have much tradeskills or crafts to their name and yet they did trade. Which begs the interesting questions: How did they get the things they need to use? Road tolls may generate some income, but when things worsen, the scarcity of trade won't be enough to sustain the realm's needs, even if the tolls are hiked up to the skies.
Oropher ruled for a fair bit before Thranduil took over. Even if Oropher's administration had no treasury problems to begin, by the time the War rolled around, I'd think inflation and scarcity of goods and resources would have had impact on the prices of goods, especially luxury goods like Dorwinion wine, and the poverty line might have reared its ugly head? (Which might account for the lack of adequate protection for the troops that went to war, apart from hubris or bravado? I don't think Oropher would be that inexperienced with conflict to think light armour was enough in itself for battle in such a large scale theatre). I would think Thranduil was a studious king-in-waiting, and it helped he had the smarts to pick up the pieces during and after the war, and literally make things work. The ages changed, but there's still mouths to feed and a kingdom to run. So I do feel that economics play into Thranduil's gem-hoarding compulsion even if he didn't pick up the gem-envy from Dad.
And, both of those groups were known for their skill in crafting jewelry (among other things), while Oropher's Silvan Elves were not. You could then assume that he felt that lack? And that Thranduil picked up on it?
I know! LoL
The diminutives for Elven names are adorable, but... Orry? I can't help thinking OrryNorryDorry when I see it.
Wild Thing... is all sorts of irrelevance... can we go with Thrandy instead?
Re: Thranduil (How about Wild Thing instead of Thrandy? )
On teh Conflict with Dwarves and potential fire-starting, sorry it doesn't translate but I was taking a bit of a swipe at the Thranduil-is-a-jerk-because-he's-beautiful-anti-Dwarf-and-got-bling-envy sentiment that seems rather prevalent. But like you say, everyone does seem "to have their own Dark Influence in this neck of the woods". And yet, "Thranduil seems able to keep the corruption down to a General Bad Temper and Testiness Regarding Trespassers". If that sentiment was true, then Thranduil would have started a few wars for bling already. And with the insult Thorin threw in his face he would have been well within rights, according to Mirkwood statutes, to extract what he wanted by any means.
Quote
It is interesting that Thranduil does nothing else except for the tradeoff he proposed to Thorin in their faceoff to get the gems back, no waterboarding etc (which is a fortuitous bit of canon adherence imo).
Torturing Durin's heir could create the possibility for a war with the Dwarves, if word got out (maybe depending on whether or not the movie version's Dwarves also consider him the re-incarnation of Durin himself).
Quote
Also, in the AUJ prologue sequence, he did not go ballistic and snatch that treasure box, even though he could make off with it easily enough.
But, again, it could have led to a battle, if not a war. Especially if what Smaug says of the Arkenstone's influence on the Dwarves is true. (Everybody seems to have their own Dark Influence in this neck of the woods.)
Yeah. Fingers crossed for a sensible outcome.
Yup, I too expect that will continue (with emphasis on the "different than what we see at face-value") when we (I hope) see some kind of reconciliation between Thorin and Thranduil in TaBA. (And Wild Thing's patience will pay off and he'll get those Gems of Pure Starlight.) I also hope they'll be some kind of satisfactory resolution of the Tuariel Problem (but I'm not sure PJ and Co. see Thranduil keeping the Sylvan and Sindarin lines separate as a problem).
OT: Just personally, as someone who benefitted from reading, I really  this bit from the interview. Literacy advocacy! Imagine Thranduil doing readings in schools
One thing I love about being in the movies is that when a kid will come up to me and want to talk about The Hobbit, I’m like, ‘Have you read it yet?’ Because it’s such a great book for kids to read because you’re never too young to pick up that book.
Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Apr 15 2014, 3:17pm
Post #74 of 210
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I know! LoL
Quote
The diminutives for Elven names are adorable, but... Orry? I can't help thinking OrryNorryDorry when I see it.
Maybe the diminutive for Oropher could just be "Oro"? Cuz I know an elf wouldn't want anyone confusing him with a dwarf.
Wild Thing... is all sorts of irrelevance... can we go with Thrandy instead?
Quote
Re: Thranduil (How about Wild Thing instead of Thrandy? )
But, but, but...As much as I like calling him Thrandy, if we call him Wild Thing too then we get to have this as his theme song! It's too perfect! Just like him!
OT: Just personally, as someone who benefitted from reading, I really this bit from the interview. Literacy advocacy! Imagine Thranduil doing readings in schools. Quote
One thing I love about being in the movies is that when a kid will come up to me and want to talk about The Hobbit, I’m like, ‘Have you read it yet?’ Because it’s such a great book for kids to read because you’re never too young to pick up that book.
"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Apr 15 2014, 4:57pm
Post #75 of 210
(13706 views)
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Is there a theory that tries to explain this phenomenon?
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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How's about some levity (at Thranduil's expense) for the Monday blues?
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