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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part III
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Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 6:05pm

Post #26 of 210 (5105 views)
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     I don't think it's a form of Black Speech, as: [In reply to]  

"Orcs are intended to have had a fairly small vocabulary to begin with, supplementing it as needed by words from the languages of Elves, Dwarves, and Men, and also Black Speech"

And a link? Here: http://midgardsmal.com/blog/


BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 12 2014, 6:11pm

Post #27 of 210 (5065 views)
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     I didn't know that either [In reply to]  

I'm glad you cleared it up. And thanks for the link. So, who's up for some Orkish lessons? Wink


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau

(This post was edited by BlackFox on Apr 12 2014, 6:12pm)


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 6:21pm

Post #28 of 210 (5093 views)
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     Translate this! [In reply to]  

"Khozdayin obguryash! Abgurid!"


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 12 2014, 6:28pm

Post #29 of 210 (5063 views)
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     Awesome! Thanks!// [In reply to]  

 

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 12 2014, 6:34pm

Post #30 of 210 (5069 views)
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     Abgurid! = Follow them! [In reply to]  

And I only know that because I cheated and typed it in a search engine.Blush The one website that had those words in it didn't know what Khozdayin obguryash means.

http://www.elendilion.pl/2013/12/30/g-i-p-report-complete-dialogs-in-sindarin-khuzdl-orkish-and-quenya-hdos/


"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 12 2014, 6:35pm

Post #31 of 210 (5071 views)
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     "The dwarves are getting away! Follow them!"? // [In reply to]  

 


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 6:37pm

Post #32 of 210 (5066 views)
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     Cheat! [In reply to]  

But yes, Khozd is Dwarf, -ai/ayi is a plural suffix for people, and -n is a definite suffix, meaning "the"


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 9:59pm

Post #33 of 210 (5043 views)
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     That's an interesting site [In reply to]  

I especially like:



Quote

VII.
Imrid amrad ursul!
‘Die a death of flames!’
[Khuzdűl, see here]


I wanted to know what kind of mud Thorin was slinging at Thranduil. I don't understand why they didn't give it subtitles. I assumed it was something crude.

That
is SO much better! :D

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 10:10pm

Post #34 of 210 (5097 views)
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     And also, Thorin's less direct insult to Thranduil [In reply to]  

when he was talking to Balin in the dungeons was said (by RA) to mean "I pour excrement on your head"...


elf-lady
Rivendell

Apr 12 2014, 10:23pm

Post #35 of 210 (5057 views)
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     Yes, I am! [In reply to]  

And omg this thread is moving fast. I can't get online so much anymore due to heavy workload and I need to find some time to read through all the posts. Thanks for posting all those interviews. I can't wait until my DVD arrives (why it's taking so long I really don't know!). Frown


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 10:25pm

Post #36 of 210 (5068 views)
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     I really like your "heart language" concept [In reply to]  

But it does seem like the general consensus is that it makes more sense, in what is often an action film, to use Elvish sparingly. I still think it's likely being used for emphasis as a "heart language," here and there, but considering that Legolas - Door Guard scene, and a couple of other sequences when Elvish is used mostly by Legolas or Thranduil to give orders, I wonder if it could also be required for official commands and exchanges. Then Thranduil is just Being The Elvenking when he's whipping out the Elvish to stop Tauriel from killing the Orc. :p

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 10:30pm

Post #37 of 210 (5074 views)
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     Ha! So I was right, in the wrong place. [In reply to]  

Tongue

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 10:52pm

Post #38 of 210 (5085 views)
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     Looking just at the bit that caught me in Lee Pace's answers [In reply to]  

I'm guessing that with this:


Quote
If you’ve been given the gift of immortality, you’ve got to not be foolish with it. He doesn’t hate. It would be one thing to just be like ‘Dwarves hate Elves and Elves hate Dwarves.’ But there are real reasons why they don’t agree, and that’s one of them, this wealth thing. He’s a natural creature. He doesn’t understand wealth in that way. He doesn’t understand wanting to accumulate it. I guess that means something to the Dragon.


Lee Pace is disagreeing with the idea that Thranduil wants to build up the kind of treasure that other Elf Lords have, and - indirectly - saying that the Elvenking's desire for the White Gems has only to do with the (quasi-religious?) association they have with starlight for him.

I know I've seen it argued that Tolkien's Thranduil is interested in accumulating wealth, but I'm guessing this means that PJ and Co. intend that he have a different bent.


"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Apr 13 2014, 3:11am

Post #39 of 210 (5007 views)
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     I like it too!! [In reply to]  

It is so very hard not to spout English in my Japanese language class when we really get going.

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 3:28am

Post #40 of 210 (5010 views)
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     You're welcome, Elarie. [In reply to]  

I'm holding out for the EE, and some nerding helps take the edge off the green-eyed bit from reading about others enjoying the TE now. Tongue


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 3:44am

Post #41 of 210 (5013 views)
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     Oh yeah! [In reply to]  

And thanks to the endlessly imaginative iterations of the meagre source material out there, there's always something new to appreciate.



Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 4:05am

Post #42 of 210 (5017 views)
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     Haha... mow that sounds more like a dwarvish insult at an Elf [In reply to]  

Just an, admittedly pigheaded, observation: Thorin said something like: "I told him he can [expletive], him and all his kind."

So was RA speaking the insult grammatically incorrect, or is it fitting the dwarvish language syntax?


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 4:23am

Post #43 of 210 (4998 views)
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     That is very cool. Thanks. Bofur01! [In reply to]  

Nice to know the kind of attention being paid to such details.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 4:31am

Post #44 of 210 (5004 views)
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     I have the same problem [In reply to]  

Hajimemashite, Rembrethil. I so get what you mean! I speak 2 languages and a couple of dialects, and thought it shouldn't be so difficult to stick with Japanese during classes, but boy was I wrong. I think the concept of trial by fire is the only way to not let the tendency to lapse back into our own language is to go on an immersion program. :P


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 4:35am

Post #45 of 210 (5002 views)
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     David Salo's Orcish word list for anyone interested [In reply to]  

Link: Yrksk Orđabók


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 5:22am

Post #46 of 210 (5008 views)
Shortcut
     Prolly taking the moral highground? [In reply to]  

I suspect they're building Thranduil's morality around the "Long will I tarry ere I begin this war for gold" line, and thereby giving a more tangible justification to his desire for treasure than just the usual refrain that he's simply got gem-envy on his mind.

And if that is linked to Lee's inspiration from Oberon and the Fisher King ("They’re not like people. They don’t understand things like people. They’re more like a blizzard, or a very old tree, or a bear, or a tiger. They’re wild things."), the concept of the link between king and land, then Mirkwood's sickness corrupting his heart, and Lee's mention (somewhere else I think) that Thranduil is aware of what's happening but can't stop the process, then I guess it ties in to his apparent greed on the surface. Which of course then resolves itself (hopefully) in TABA when the story of the White Gems is revealed and the Necromancer cast out from Dol Guldor.

It is interesting that Thranduil does nothing else except for the tradeoff he proposed to Thorin in their faceoff to get the gems back, no waterboarding etc (which is a fortuitous bit of canon adherence imo).

Also, in the AUJ prologue sequence, he did not go ballistic and snatch that treasure box, even though he could make off with it easily enough. Rather curious given the overt significance of the gems to him. But then in reference to the "I'm patient, I can wait" line, it does suggest that he is cognizant and has enough presence of mind, despite the apparent betrayal/rejection in these 2 scenes to believe he will have the last laugh - which speaks again to the "wild things" bit.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the above seem like indications to the importance of those gems to him vis-a-vis the garden variety treasure, and at the same time demonstrate his greed may be different than what we see at face-value.

In TABA, we may see something like a TTT Faramir-Frodo moment ("I think at last we understand each other, Frodo Baggins") though whether Thorin is able to respond when it happens is another question. Tongue

... then again, my memory of all this is a bit dusty at the moment and I was not a very good student in Lit. class, so it could all just be random mites reaching and espousing implausible theories by proxy but I agree with youSmile



Quote
Lee Pace is disagreeing with the idea that Thranduil wants to build up the kind of treasure that other Elf Lords have, and - indirectly - saying that the Elvenking's desire for the White Gems has only to do with the (quasi-religious?) association they have with starlight for him.

I know I've seen it argued that Tolkien's Thranduil is interested in accumulating wealth, but I'm guessing this means that PJ and Co. intend that he have a different bent.


PS: Canon-wise, we don't get any insight any influence Oropher (Legolas=Leggy, Thranduil=Thrandy, Oropher=Orry?) might have on Thranduil's treasure greed, do we?


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 13 2014, 5:32am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 5:25am

Post #47 of 210 (5010 views)
Shortcut
     Cool! [In reply to]  

It is moving, isn't it? But so much fun. Fancy having a linguistics discourse going on in an appreciation thread. I Heart this fandom

I hope you enjoy the viewing when your DVD arrives. I'm dying for the EE!!!


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 5:28am

Post #48 of 210 (5006 views)
Shortcut
     Offiicial Announcment on Thranduil's March Madness win [In reply to]  



Just wanted to put it here for fellow thralls

TORn homepage headline: Congratulations to our 2014 Middle-earth March Madness champion: Thranduil!


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



jkm7
Bree


Apr 13 2014, 12:01pm

Post #49 of 210 (5006 views)
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     Thanks for posting all these interesting Interviews [In reply to]  

and Video. There's some I didn't know yet. I love how much thought and effort Lee put into his role.

Also congrats to Thranduil, King of Sass, winner of March Madness and even beating the likes of Galadriel, Aragorn and Bilbo, not to mention his own son. Hopefully PJ and the other producers will have realized by now how popular and perfect Thranduil is and give him more screentime in the EE and in TABA.


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 13 2014, 12:48pm

Post #50 of 210 (4987 views)
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     Well, I'm back [In reply to]  

Hi Thralls. Forgot to mention I was off to New Zealand for a couple of weeks. Yes they do have internet there, all except my sister who I stayed with, so I decided to treat it as a screen-time break.
No unexpected meeting of minor cast members at parties this time, but I did pick up Weta's Chronicles 2 and 3 'from the source', saving on postage.

And wow, a third appreciation thread! And the March Madness contest - can't believe I missed the whole thing. I have been really enjoying the discussion between you, Lurker and vanima ephel. You are able to express a level of fandom and attention to detail that swills randomly around in my head but remains difficult (somehow) for me to articulate.

I would have joined in to say I have just watched 'Possession' and was equally enthralled by how LP played that bad boy. And also thanks for bringing my attention to Thranduil's half-sheath - I had not noticed that. But... moving on, since we are in a new thread.

Love the vid you posted with the filming of the interrogation scene. New footage, I am just drinking it in! I too am holding out for the EE - I recall how my TEs of LOTR were taking up space once the EEs took pride of place. I figure I can always rent DoS TE if I get desperate.

And thanks also for posting the interview above with Lee Pace. Lots of good stuff there. I am musing on this line in particular:


Quote
But he is also sensitive, and I don’t mean emotionally sensitive. I mean, I believe that not a leaf moves in that forest that he doesn’t feel.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."

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