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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
fan edit

Barrow-Wight
Rohan


Apr 12 2014, 6:31pm

Post #1 of 20 (805 views)
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fan edit Can't Post

well since Desolation Of Smaug is now on DVD I'm sure many fans are going to try to splice the two films together my question is how? how would you edit the end of AUJ to merge with beginning of DOS? something I would do is move the Bree scene to the beginning of AUJ taking out old Bilbo and Frodo it would still be tricky though


tsmith675
Gondor


Apr 12 2014, 7:17pm

Post #2 of 20 (458 views)
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I don't think Bree is really needed actually. [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the scene in the film. But I don't think it would be needed if you were recutting the film to make a shorter fan edit.

I honestly don't know how people will edit it. I'll leave that to the more creative types and I'll just enjoy the films the way they're meant to be enjoyed Tongue

Our destiny lies above us.


Barrow-Wight
Rohan


Apr 12 2014, 7:23pm

Post #3 of 20 (432 views)
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me too [In reply to] Can't Post

even though I've yet to watch the whole thing on DVD I always fall asleep lol but that's cause I try to watch it at night


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Apr 12 2014, 8:19pm

Post #4 of 20 (399 views)
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Well Bree could be earlier [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps during the AUJ prologue? When Old Bilbo talks about Thorin and we see him forging a sword in some kind of city of Men and Bilbo says "and he never forgave and he never forgot" CUT and after that we see him walking through Bree

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


book Gandalf
Rohan


Apr 12 2014, 8:26pm

Post #5 of 20 (407 views)
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remove [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
well since Desolation Of Smaug is now on DVD I'm sure many fans are going to try to splice the two films together my question is how? how would you edit the end of AUJ to merge with beginning of DOS? something I would do is move the Bree scene to the beginning of AUJ taking out old Bilbo and Frodo it would still be tricky though


to do a fan edit, youd have to remove the bree stuff, isnt the point to remove the non book scenes? you might aswell just leave it as it is otherwise.

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


tsmith675
Gondor


Apr 12 2014, 8:49pm

Post #6 of 20 (383 views)
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Well the meeting at Bree is still canon. [In reply to] Can't Post

So I could see that being left in. Stuff like Tauriel, dwarves vs. Smaug, etc. could be cut out. But the stuff that's still canon, whether it's literally from the Hobbit book or from other Tolkien works would still be welcome in a fan edit.

Our destiny lies above us.


Faleel
Rohan


Apr 12 2014, 8:54pm

Post #7 of 20 (381 views)
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And then [In reply to] Can't Post

cut from the "we need a burglar" dialogue to Young Bilbo!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Apr 12 2014, 9:43pm

Post #8 of 20 (381 views)
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Two hours 47 min both theatrical cuts with only related to book material [In reply to] Can't Post

I´ve heard about this, I don´t know if it would work for the taste of everyone

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


brotherbeck
Rivendell

Apr 12 2014, 11:13pm

Post #9 of 20 (351 views)
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Fan-Edit [In reply to] Can't Post

A fan-edit doesn't necessarily have to cut out all non-book material, although that is one type of fan-edit that has been pretty popular with PJ's Tolkien movies so far. I have seen some other fan-edits of the LOTR movies that try to simply streamline the story that the movies are telling by cutting the silliest scenes and trimming some of the good ones - even though these edits also usually end up being more faithful to the books in the end anyways.

I personally think the best fan-edit would sort of meld those two ideas together: streamline the story and also try to bring the story a little more in line with the books. I think simply chopping out all non-book material after the fact doesn't make the best movies out of the material available - the story itself has been too drastically altered in the writing and filming stage. That being said, I would absolutely love to watch a strict book material only fan-edit someday. I could be dead wrong, maybe it would be perfect that way. I just feel like it would seem choppy and incomplete to someone not already familiar with the book going in.

After having seen AUJ and DoS now, I think my personal fan-edit would begin the entire story with Gandalf and Thorin meeting in Bree as a prologue of sorts, and then cut right to Martin Freeman's Bilbo smoking his pipe and meeting with Gandalf in front of Bag End. I would then use most of the original prologue material while the dwarves are at Bag End, so we'd learn the story of the dwarves and the dragon at the same time Bilbo does in the narrative.

The other major change I know for a fact I would make would be no cutting away from Smaug scenes to anything at Laketown - it absolutely kills all the drama and tension of the Smaug scenes, and far, far too much screentime is spent away in Laketown. I honestly can't wrap my mind around why any sane person would A) Think its a good idea to cut away from the main story at that point and B) Would cut away for THAT LONG. The fact that what is happening in the Laketown scenes is completely and totally new material made up by the filmmakers and glaringly contradicts so much of Tolkien's writing and story just makes it all harder to swallow.


tsmith675
Gondor


Apr 12 2014, 11:19pm

Post #10 of 20 (342 views)
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Yeah, as much as I love DoS, [In reply to] Can't Post

The intercutting between Laketown and Smaug did bother me a bit. The great thing about AUJ was that, for the Riddles scene, it stayed there the entire time. And that was fantastic. We weren't interrupted by anything, we were fully engrossed in the scene. That was great. And, while I was fully engrossed in the Smaug scenes, it definitely took me out of it when it cut to something else.

However, I did have a friend, who is just a casual fan of the films (definitely not a Tolkien enthusiast) said the Smaug scene with Bilbo went on for way too long, so maybe it would have seemed even longer had they not cut to Laketown during it, I'm not sure.

But for me, I definitely was bothered by the editing there.

Our destiny lies above us.


brotherbeck
Rivendell

Apr 13 2014, 12:57am

Post #11 of 20 (324 views)
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Fan edit thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Watching the film as it is now I feel like staying on the Smaug scenes and not cutting away would actually make them seem shorter overall, but it's one of those things you'd have to try and see how it works. The way it plays now everything just goes on FAR too long and there's just silliness overload. I'd also want to trim the Smaug vs. the dwarves stuff heavily or possibly remove it altogether, but that's also something to see how it works.

I've watched a fantastic fan-edit of AUJ that completely removes the stone giants altogether and drastically cuts down the goblin tunnels sequence and it works absolutely perfectly.

I guess I am of the mind that if PJ wanted a CGI heavy action scene at a certain point where I personally don't think it's necesaary at all then that's his call - but it doesn't have to be so insanely over-the-top that all dramatic tension is completely obliterated and it doesn't need to go on for ten or twenty minutes of screentime. I think those types of scenes have more impact the shorter they are. A little goes a long way, and then you don't get overload.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Apr 13 2014, 1:52am

Post #12 of 20 (298 views)
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I think it works without cuts because in the script was meant to be that way [In reply to] Can't Post

it is in the cutting room when the climax of DOS took shap, I´m almost sure of that

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


tsmith675
Gondor


Apr 13 2014, 2:05am

Post #13 of 20 (293 views)
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I agree. I actually quite like the Smaug vs. Dwarves scenes... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I definitely think they could be cut down. Maybe about half the length it goes on. It doesn't bother me, but I do think it goes on a bit too long.

I'm a fan of the over the top sequences in the Hobbit though. I mean, to an extent. I love the Barrels sequence. That was great for me. The goblin town sequence went on a little long but it didn't bother me too much, similar to the way I feel about the dwarves vs. Smaug.

I usually hate OTT action. But for some reason, it works in the Hobbit for me. Something about the extreme fantasy feel makes it work to me, more so than in anything else.

Our destiny lies above us.


Annatar598
Rohan


Apr 13 2014, 9:21am

Post #14 of 20 (268 views)
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I think the fact that the Dwarves were using machinery [In reply to] Can't Post

and practical "weapons" against the dragons is what made me not hate it as some here did.

I'm happy it didn't end in explosions as many movies these days do.

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Apr 13 2014, 10:23am

Post #15 of 20 (260 views)
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Exactly ;-) Would be a perfect prologue right? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the Bree scene is important for the story. We learn more about the bounty on Thorins head and we learn why burglar is so important for the company... and the importance of the Arkenstone.

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Apr 13 2014, 10:24am)


brotherbeck
Rivendell

Apr 13 2014, 11:51pm

Post #16 of 20 (185 views)
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Thoughts on the climax [In reply to] Can't Post

I recently rewatched the end of DoS with the idea in mind of ways to trim it and shorten it up to make it better. I truly believe that letting all of the Erebor scenes play out without cutting away to Laketown would make those scenes and the ending itself much more powerful. I actually don’t mind the fact that Legolas and Tauriel go to Laketown, and I feel the healing scene would work really well with some trimming and shortening. As it is in the movie now it is too long and really clumsily portrayed, but with the right cuts I think it can actually be very dramatic. I do however absolutely HATE how Bolg and the other orcs go to Laketown. It makes Middle-Earth seem absolutely tiny and it flies so completely in the face of so much of Tolkien’s writing that I’m actually shocked they did it in the first place. I think there is a way to completely remove Bolg and the orcs but to keep at least Tauriel and possibly Legolas in Laketown, and just have the whole scene in shortened form play out at an earlier point.

I had originally thought I wanted to completely remove all of the Smaug vs. the dwarves scenes because I do think the whole scene is too over-the-top, it undercuts how dangerous Smaug is, and it is definitely not how I would have told the story. After watching it again though I can respect the way they wanted to make the dwarves more active participants in their own fate, and I really like the way Thorin is pretty much suicidal but he wants his revenge and the rest of the dwarves are loyal to him and go along with it. I also love the scene in the guard room with the charred bodies of the fallen dwarves, and that scene leads directly into the fight with Smaug.

I now think I just want to trim certain aspects of the scene and make it tighter and more realistic – namely Thorin boogie-boarding on molten lava gold without getting burned and probably him standing directly on top of Smaug’s snout. I think my patience was so tested already at that point by a movie that for the most part completely ignored or skipped huge parts of the story that are important to me yet completely slowed to a crawl to focus in on irrelevant sideplots and completely fabricated things for very long chunks of screentime that I simply could not tolerate the shenanigans on screen. I think a more balanced film that takes the time to delve into things like Beorn and Mirkwood and the Desolation of Smaug can support the Smaug vs. the dwarves climax, albeit in a slightly shortened form.


sycorax82
Rohan

Apr 14 2014, 12:26am

Post #17 of 20 (177 views)
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You need all 3 EEs to do a proper fan edit [In reply to] Can't Post

What I would love to see is a 2 movie edit. I don't care one bit for any 'book only' cut that might be out there. Tolkien himself would have included more material himself, in retrospect, so I have no problem with 'enhancing' the story of The Hobbit.

What I would love to see is a 2 movie cut, with AUJ ending how was originally planned, which was with Barrels Out of Bond and Gandalf vs Sauron.


Faleel
Rohan


Apr 14 2014, 12:33am

Post #18 of 20 (174 views)
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Bolg [In reply to] Can't Post

Could you explain how that scene is so Anti-tolkien?


brotherbeck
Rivendell

Apr 14 2014, 1:03am

Post #19 of 20 (175 views)
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Changes not in the spirit of the books. [In reply to] Can't Post

The part that struck me as anti-Tolkien was how a large group of fully armed orcs can just cross huge swaths of land and basically invade a town of men. It makes all of middle-earth seem like its already a war zone, something that doesn't seem appropriate to me, especially at that point in the overall tale. Things like the Rangers could still theoretically exist in the movie universe and just not be shown - but the idea that Bolg can just go wherever he wants and do whatever he wants just seems wrong to me and not in the spirit of the books at all.

The fact that the dwarves had already been being chased the entire time by first Azog and then Bolg already bothered me, but that struck me more as a small group of orcs acting in secret, not brazenly and openly crossing populated lands and attacking towns full of people. Plus it makes the geography seem so small. For Bolg and his group to travel those distances would take too much time.

And I fully agree that all three extended editions are needed to do a proper fan edit, especially given how this series of films has been altered and extended at a late stage of development. I honestly feel that if PJ and the other filmmakers had planned from the start to make three films, and had written three scripts accordingly, and done principal photography with three films in mind, the three films would have been drastically different and each film itself would have been much better and the resulting trilogy would have told a much more focused and far less convoluted story.

If the studio really wanted three films I guess I wish PJ had asked to delay the whole project a year so they could fall back and regroup and use the footage they already had that still worked but go back and shoot more and really make the whole thing work as a three film trilogy.


(This post was edited by brotherbeck on Apr 14 2014, 1:18am)


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Apr 14 2014, 3:02pm

Post #20 of 20 (154 views)
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As others have said, [In reply to] Can't Post

you'll pretty much have to wait until the TaBA EE comes out to do a really good fan edit, but i'm confident that there are 2 pretty good 3-3½ hour films waiting in there somewhere, especially considering all the extra b.s. that was in DoS (and that's hopefully not but probably going to be in TaBA).

 
 

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