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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Any Idea or Fantasy for a Prologue to TABA?
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Bombadil
Half-elven


Apr 5 2014, 3:09pm

Post #1 of 28 (860 views)
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Any Idea or Fantasy for a Prologue to TABA? Can't Post

Bombyzz Favorite THEORY.. is the
Gathering together of the Company
in Ered Luin?

1. We get to meet Dis, and her giving Kili the Stone.

2. Thorin's Promise to watch out for the Both of them.

3. Bombur's Big Family, 12 little Bomburz
......"Don't go Daddy?"

4. Nori springing Dori from jail for Thievery?
.....etc...

Bringing the Emotion & the different personalities
together so we are even MORE Invested in them.

Jus' a Weekend Thread...to play with
fromBomby


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Apr 5 2014, 3:11pm)


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


Apr 5 2014, 3:14pm

Post #2 of 28 (525 views)
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If they did it [In reply to] Can't Post

Which I am not sure they will they should show early scenes of the dwarves and their families like Kili and Fili as kids. Then they could show the scene with Smaug flying towards Laketown and then BOOM! Thorin wakes up and realizes it was just a bad nightmare. Then roll the opening titles.


deskp
Lorien


Apr 5 2014, 3:32pm

Post #3 of 28 (493 views)
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my bet [In reply to] Can't Post

This is where they introduce Dain.


Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Apr 5 2014, 4:19pm

Post #4 of 28 (464 views)
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you know what?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would really love to see it!

Well done, Bomby... (still laughing about the 12 mini BombursWink )


Dcole4
Rohan

Apr 5 2014, 5:36pm

Post #5 of 28 (418 views)
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This would be great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Would also love the "Meeting of the Dwarves" w/ Dain referenced in AUJ


(This post was edited by Dcole4 on Apr 5 2014, 5:45pm)


Sildarion~Valenar
Bree


Apr 5 2014, 5:56pm

Post #6 of 28 (412 views)
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What I propose... [In reply to] Can't Post

At our first glimpse, we see the Iron Hills. The camera pans around the hills to reveal a fortress amidst the slopes and we zoom into the halls of Dain. (yeah yeah, similar to the TTT prologue). We see a scout walking upto Dain (who is sitting on a throne) and report a huge orc-army from Dol Guldur marching towards Laketown and that rumors of a dwarvish company also come from around that place. Dain exclaims and mentions Thorin and after some thinking decides to pull up an army and march to his aid.
Cut to Thorin and co. searching (and enjoying) the treasure like mad-men, Bilbo eventually finds it and when he thinks of giving it to Thorin he is reminded of Smaug's words "I'm almost tempted to let you have it. To watch Oakenshield fall..." just a voice flashback, hopefully a subtle one. And Bilbo hides the Arkenstone into his pocket.
Cut to Smaug flying towards Laketown.

How's that for a start?

Imo, the initial Dain scene hits three major points:

-It reminds us of where Thorin is and about the danger soon to come upon them
-It links the dwarves' storyline and the Dol Guldur plot.
-Sets up Dain as a character and someone worthy to be a King.
-We get to see Iron-Hills? Another new location in the ME-franchise?


"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
~ Tolkien lets Faramir speak his own view on war and glory


AshNazg
Rohan


Apr 5 2014, 7:22pm

Post #7 of 28 (425 views)
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Well PJ says in the commentary that the start of TABA... [In reply to] Can't Post

Explains Gandalf's staff. PB says something like "We find out what happens to Gandalf's staff at the end of the next film" and PJ says "Nono, that's at the beginning of film 3" they argue a bit then agree that it happens in film 3.

Obviously Gandalf's staff gets destroyed at the end of DoS so we'll see him get a new one at the start of TaBA. So I assume the prologue is the Dol Guldur battle.


Bernhardina
Rohan


Apr 5 2014, 7:26pm

Post #8 of 28 (357 views)
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I really like this idea :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



iduna
Rivendell


Apr 5 2014, 9:11pm

Post #9 of 28 (347 views)
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I would love it if Dis were in the TABA prologue [In reply to] Can't Post

But, sadly, I don't think that will happen.

Still I love your ideas, Bomby! I need more dwarves! ALL the dwarves!

My guess is that TABA will open with Gandalf, stuck in a cage in Dol Guldur. He will send a mental message to Lady Galadriel, warning of danger. Then the White Council will all get together. Elrond will say this is disturbing news, Lady G will say the elves must immediately ride to Mithrandir's aid, Saruman will say that Gandalf is a meddler, and Radagast will say, "Look! A silly old stick insect!"

Anyway, this will get the audience to realize that TABA is not happening in a political vacuum. Sauron is rising in power, the armies of Dol Guldur are marching on the free peoples of middle-earth, and all the hoo-ha with the dragon in DOS was but a prelude to the War to end all Wars.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, men, elves and dwarves are definitely not presenting a united front to their common foe. Will they manage to get it together in time to defeat the overwhelming forces of evil?

Stay tuned!

(Well, that's how I'd do it.)


Bernhardina
Rohan


Apr 5 2014, 9:19pm

Post #10 of 28 (321 views)
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Oooh I like it! [In reply to] Can't Post

I could definitely see TABA opening with the white council and Gandalf i Dol Guldur Smile And I think it would be great to remind the audience of the politics of these events, good point!



dik-dik
Lorien


Apr 5 2014, 9:47pm

Post #11 of 28 (345 views)
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My bet is on Dol Guldur as TABA's opening scene. [In reply to] Can't Post

And no prologue. Dol Guldur is IMO a good place to start the third and darkest movie with, as it's both ominous and not yet in battle mode. As a 'darkness is gathering' intro, it would serve well. Plenty of time for audience to get into the general feel and recall the goings-on in movie 2 while Gandalf is stuck on the wall, the armies of the White Council (if any? I can actually imagine PJ having just the White Council members storming the fortress) are approaching, and Orcs are leaving for the North. Perhaps there could even be a Gandalf-vs-Necromancer flashback like there was in TTT.
Alternately, I can imagine TABA opening with Bilbo fidgeting with the Arkenstone that we lost sight of in movie 2, and it's high time to reestablish its importance if certain people are going to throw forty fits about it. Wink

I don't see the other plotlines as likely openings. We' were already told what we essentially need to know of the main characters, so no blast-from-the-past intro is needed. A Laketown setting doesn't feature the top main characters except for Bard who is still 'new'. A Smaug-centric opening would mean instant action; not likely. And Dwarves exploring the Mountain after Smaug's exit are simply not exciting enough, IMO.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Thranderz
Rohan


Apr 5 2014, 10:26pm

Post #12 of 28 (321 views)
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I'd like to see [In reply to] Can't Post

a 5 minute run through of the Iron Hills. Obviously it has to centre around Dain. Cool

I simply walked into Mordor.


iduna
Rivendell


Apr 6 2014, 12:42am

Post #13 of 28 (297 views)
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If not Dol Guldur... [In reply to] Can't Post

I could see a prologue that would be more about Dale and Girion. We might get another look at Bard's heritage and what the humans have at stake here.


So...


AUJ had a prologue giving us all about the Hobbits and Bilbo.


DOS has a prologue telling us about Thorin and Gandalf.


TABA's prologue could be about the Men of Dale, and bring Bard and his story into greater focus. After all, at the moment we know the dwarves and Bilbo pretty intimately, and we care about them and their quest. But the audience might not care that much about Laketown going up in flames unless we know more about the place and its inhabitants.


Oin's parasite
Rivendell


Apr 6 2014, 8:50am

Post #14 of 28 (249 views)
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Excellent theories! [In reply to] Can't Post

My preference would be "The Meeting in Ered Luin" (a nice flashback to the start of it all, and the introduction of Dáin) or just open on Dol Guldur.

"I've got parasites as big as my arm!"


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 6 2014, 4:42pm

Post #15 of 28 (211 views)
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As warm & fuzzy as that would be, Bomby... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it doesn't add anything necessary to the film. Considering the way that DoS ended, there might not be a prologue at all (although I suspect that there will be something).

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


FrogmortonJustice65
Rivendell


Apr 6 2014, 10:19pm

Post #16 of 28 (200 views)
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idk if there will be a *prologue* (DoS Spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think there will be a prologue-proper, in the style of the first two Hobbit films and LOTR. I think audiences will be expecting the movie to cut right to the chase after the massive cliff-hanger from DoS. How much backstory is there honestly left to set up? What would a prologue even be about? I guess a Dain/dwarven gathering prologue is somewhat plausible, but it seems like explanation of Dain and the other dwarves could be handled later in the movie. Dain is a significant figure in historical terms as far as the books go, but he seems rather tangential to the main plot arcs of the films (Bilbo's personal development, Thorin's descent, the White Council & Sauron, Kili & Tauriel, etc). If I were PJ, I'd be sensitive to the criticisms the first two films have received about unnecessary plot lines/back-story, but who knows how he actually thinks, I could be wrong.

I agree with others that the film might start in Dol Guldor --- that seems natural. There are essentially 4 cliff-hangers (maybe more, who knows, I could be missing something) at the end of DoS:

--- Legolas chasing Bolg
--- Fili, Kili, Tauriel, Oin, Bofur, Bard about to get torched in Laketown
--- Gandalf trapped
--- Bilbo, Thorin, and co. at the Lonely mountain

I think it would be too jarring to pick up TABA *exactly* where it ended --- i.e., it would be too jarring for the movie to start up with the destruction of Laketown. I think PJ has to walk a fine line; I don't know if the audience has the patience to sit through more backstory/prologue material, after two films of build-up for the climax in TABA. But it also seems jarring to pick up exactly where DoS left off ("I am fire, I am death!" & "What have we done?"). That's why I think Dol Guldor might be a good place for TABA to start. There could be some Gandalf/White Council/Azog/Sauron action; potentially involving Legolas, if he is indeed following Bolg to Dol Guldor. That would, in my mind, allow a more organic transition to the Laketown events we know are coming.

 photo cbccab4e-f61e-4be5-aaa1-20e302430c7c.jpg


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Apr 6 2014, 11:47pm

Post #17 of 28 (181 views)
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what about [In reply to] Can't Post

A young Thorin pleading with his gold sick grandfather? We only got a mere glimpse of it in the AUJ prologue, and it was unspoken- no dialogue other than Bilbo's narration.

I think, given that we will watch Thorin descend into the same madness that took his grandfather, it would be a fairly seamless way to introduce the third film. It is quite relevant to what's going to happen, it could very well show how far Thorin has fallen from what he once was, and it's set in one of the locations we've left off in DOS- Erebor.

It would also be profound in that later, it will be Fili and Kili pleading with Thorin to consider reason over greed. Only this time, they fully know the cost of the dragon attacking and decimating a village, having been in Laketown when Smaug torched it. When Thorin was young, he wouldn't have known the desolation that a dragon could cause such destruction until it happened, but they're different- THEY KNOW.

And this time, it wouldn't be an elf warning a gold sick king of what his greed might bring, with said elf being angry that he was denied gems he desired. It would be his own nephews- his own KIN- warning him of the repercussions of failing to compensate Laketown for the destruction they caused by waking Smaug and angering him.

I think it could work, and be suitably dramatic and setting up the conflict between Thorin and his nephews, and more so- his own inner conflict against himself and the dragon sickness festering within him.



Escapist
Gondor


Apr 6 2014, 11:55pm

Post #18 of 28 (174 views)
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My idea was to show Bard escaping Dale [In reply to] Can't Post

in more detail ... but that was before the stuff about Dain got mentioned ...

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 7 2014, 12:00am

Post #19 of 28 (173 views)
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I like the idea of introducting Dain [In reply to] Can't Post

but I think it would be better to do something very similar to what you suggest that shows Dain's folk answering a different earlier call (or not) from Thorin's line at some point in history - sort of an expository bit on how dwarves do and don't at times band together - but it would probably need to stick to showing one episode and referencing others.

It could be couched / fit into a scene with Thorin's remaining company passing the time in Erebor ... watching the fireworks show from a safe distance ...

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 7 2014, 12:07am

Post #20 of 28 (169 views)
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It is a tricky thing to consider. [In reply to] Can't Post

When should they reveal that Gandalf is ok and makes it out of DG? Part of me likes the "surprise" of the orcs being announced as a surprise for the characters (and given enough suspension and absorption ... the audience as well) ... I also am not a fan of "stopping the action leading up from Dwarf vs Elves and Men to Dwarves + Elves + Men vs orcs for a "public service announcement about where Gandalf has been and what he has been up to".

Not an easy tightrope to walk ... probably better to err on the side of "giving away hints" about goblins at Bo5A. I wonder if the smoke of Laketown would be visible from DG?

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 7 2014, 12:14am

Post #21 of 28 (172 views)
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There could be scenes [In reply to] Can't Post

that show both Thorin and company and Gandalf reacting to the signs of what happens at Laketown.

I could see:

Prologue: Thorin (Balin?) telling stories (simple version) about Dain as a possible ally while they haunt about the creepy halls of Erebor and revel in the treasure

First scene of the movie proper: Gandalf in DG - deal with DG just long enough to see Gandalf get out and realize what is happening (so we don't need to explain later), sees signs of Laketown (help from elven sight or Radagast's ability to get messages from animals?)

Show the view actually in Laketown in further detail - answering questions that have come up from the other characters - this gives automatic momentum for a building confrontation between sides (weaving together elves, men, and dwarven political motivations-> and then Gandalf can make his public service moment with good pacing and flow as an epic climactic moment.

And then when Dain shows up, he also does not need to be explained with a break in flow / action.

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 7 2014, 12:16am

Post #22 of 28 (175 views)
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I was thinking something similar, at first. [In reply to] Can't Post

But seeing other peoples' ideas about Gandalf at DG and Dain do provide that added benefit of frontloading details that we don't want to stop later to go into.

We have scene flashbacks to Dale in both movies so far, but I think that we haven't seen people escaping and founding Laketown yet.

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?


iduna
Rivendell


Apr 7 2014, 12:55am

Post #23 of 28 (165 views)
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That's what I was thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

We haven't seen the aftermath of the attack on Dale, and the founding of Laketown. Although we've met Bard we don't really know his personal story all that well. When you consider that Bard and the Black Arrow are so key to the upcoming events of the story, it seems almost necessary to spend a little time on his backstory.

Although I really do hope we also get a little more from Gandalf's point of view than we do in the book -- a better understanding of how the wizard's actions fit into the narrative. I am glad we're getting this wider picture of events in Middle-earth in the movie trilogy, and I think PJ & Co. are doing a good job of filling in the blanks.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Apr 7 2014, 2:28am

Post #24 of 28 (156 views)
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ALL Of the Above...Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Such
WorldWide
Wonderful
Imput
On
Our
Once &
Future
King of
Movies?

OH! Happy Weekend
Everyone
...
Your BroBomby
Cool


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 7 2014, 3:03am

Post #25 of 28 (151 views)
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the opening will center around Gandalf's staff?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Shocked

 photo 1bf768b4-0b33-420d-9c59-41ea3cf03def_zps1d44c4cf.jpg

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