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boldog
Rohan
Mar 31 2014, 6:53am
Post #1 of 23
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Could we see Legolas at his most emotional in TABA?
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I really want to see Legolas show real emotion and sadness. Yes he was distressed and upset with Gandalf , Boromir, and Aragorns supposed death. But we havnt seen him cry yet.
No considering the fact that Tauriel may die in Bo5A, I believe this will make him really upset. He had basically grown up with her, and as we saw in DOS, grown very fond and protective of her. How upsetting would it be for him to witness her die, or see her dying, or find her body on the battlefield. I really hope that if this is the scenario, we will see a powerful performance by Orlando. And who knows. Maybe even Thranduil will shed some tears after finding out that she died.
Thoughts??
I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.
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Annatar598
Rohan
Mar 31 2014, 7:34am
Post #2 of 23
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Legolas hasn't really been emotional in either the books or the movies
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The only reason he stands out in the movies is because of the huge action pieces he gets. I don't remember being "attached" to Legolas that way in the books. Tolkien didn't do much with Legolas so I really would like to see him cry here and there.
Some people say Legolas is mean in The Hobbit DOS hence it is a butchering of his character. But they forget that scene in TTT where Legolas insults an entire room of men with his cruel words.
"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.
Really? Alright...
Well, proud to be one I guess.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Mar 31 2014, 7:37am
Post #3 of 23
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Why do we need to see Legolas cry?
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In the first place, PJ & co. made a big fuss over Legolas' bewilderment at Boromir's passing in FotR, because "Elves don't know death." So, it would be inconsistent and contradictory.
Second, these movies are not about Legolas. They are about Bilbo, first, and the Dwarves, second. Most of the emotional freight in TABA needs to be there. Legolas and the Elves are supporting players, not the main drama!
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boldog
Rohan
Mar 31 2014, 8:08am
Post #4 of 23
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yeah he is a supporting character....
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...But whats he going to do? Shrug his shoulders and just forget about her death? Look at Eomer finding Eowyns body after the pelennor fields battle. They are supporting characters, yet this scene was very emotional, and still took nothing away from the main story anyway.
Why cant this be done with Legolas and Tauriel?
I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.
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Rickster
Rohan
Mar 31 2014, 9:07am
Post #5 of 23
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I really want to see Legolas show real emotion and sadness. Yes he was distressed and upset with Gandalf , Boromir, and Aragorns supposed death. But we havnt seen him cry yet.
No considering the fact that Tauriel may die in Bo5A, I believe this will make him really upset. He had basically grown up with her, and as we saw in DOS, grown very fond and protective of her. How upsetting would it be for him to witness her die, or see her dying, or find her body on the battlefield. I really hope that if this is the scenario, we will see a powerful performance by Orlando. And who knows. Maybe even Thranduil will shed some tears after finding out that she died.
Thoughts??
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Mar 31 2014, 12:56pm
Post #6 of 23
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I didn't take that as Legolas "insulting" those men...
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...but rather expressing extreme doubt over the situation he found himself in. Could you blame him? Those men and boys at Helm's Deep were not warriors, the film made that pretty clear.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Mar 31 2014, 1:01pm
Post #7 of 23
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I really couldn't care less about Legolas
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The story is not about him. I care about Bilbo, Thorin and Gandalf, and in a lesser way about the other Dwarves, Beorn and Thranduil.
In addition, whenever Orlando Bloom as Legolas tries to show emotion, he just looks embarrassingly stupid. This was even the case in LotR, when he played a completely different, younger character.
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Mar 31 2014, 1:07pm
Post #8 of 23
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these movies are not about Legolas. They are about Bilbo, first, and the Dwarves, second. Most of the emotional freight in TABA needs to be there. Legolas and the Elves are supporting players, not the main drama!
...but Legolas and Tauriel have been elevated to "major character" status, this is pretty clear in DoS. One of the writers (can't remember which) made mention of the fact that they wanted to give Legolas an arc that would show us why he hated Dwarves so much in LotR (as if the feud mentioned in AUJ between Thranduil and Thror wasn't enough reason), so I completely expect Legolas to eat up a significant amount of screen-time again in TaBA.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Mar 31 2014, 1:10pm
Post #9 of 23
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I didn't see any evidence of Legolas 'hating' Dwarves in LotR. There was perhaps only a very mild dislike of Gimli – and Gimli actually displayed far more dislike for Elves than did Legolas for Elves.
wanted to give Legolas an arc that would show us why he hated Dwarves so much in LotR
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Escapist
Gondor
Mar 31 2014, 1:11pm
Post #10 of 23
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I think an obvious place for the elf to show emotion would be
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at the sight or news of laketown burning down. Thranduil for sure had dealings with at least the Master so it wouldn't be a stretch for Legolas to care about those people and that town. Then he could blame the dwarves for its ruin.
No Tauriel required for this one.
If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Mar 31 2014, 1:21pm
Post #11 of 23
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Aside from Legolas making a few petty little insults toward Gimli, I always found that Gimli hated Elves much more than Legolas hated Dwarves. And truth be told, I felt that the mention of Thranduil's antagonistic history with Thror should have been more than enough reason for Legolas to dislike the Dwarves, but apparently the scriptwriters still felt they needed to include another, more personal, reason for Legolas.
Here's a link to a Philippa Boyens interview where she makes mention of where they are going with Legolas -
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/...ns-talks-tauriel/#/0
If you don't feel like sifting through to find the statements about Legolas, here they are -
PB: Legolas coming into it was again a natural, as natural as being able to draw upon and bring Galadriel into the storytelling. I think the fans would have killed us if we hadn’t shown him. You can’t enter the woodland realm and not show Legolas Greenleaf. He isn’t in the book but very much this is his country, this is his part of the world, this is part of what was happening before we meet him in “Lord of the Rings.” We did want to tell a little bit of that story. When you meet him in “Lord of the Rings,” he has this immediate antagonism toward Gimli the Dwarf. Dwarfs and Elves dislike each other intensely and we wanted to tell a little bit about how that happened. It goes way back, it’s an ancient feud so to speak. But in terms of his personal dislike, we wanted to tell a little bit about that so when we get to “The Lord of the Rings,” you understand what’s going on there. It’s not a petty dislike. That unfolds more in the third film. In doing that and having this female character, we did think about a love story for Legolas, but hopefully — and this is trying not to give too much away — it became less important than the greater story of the Elves...
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Mar 31 2014, 1:44pm
Post #12 of 23
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What on Earth were they thinking of? A cameo appearance would have been fine without this horrible distortion of a LotR character.
Thanks anyway for posting this, Salmacis
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Avandel
Half-elven
Mar 31 2014, 2:48pm
Post #13 of 23
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agree we don't need to see Legolas cry
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Or IMO that much of him anyway. The statement below seems to be laying it on pretty thick (thank you! for taking the time to put up the quote and link):
"I think the fans would have killed us if we hadn’t shown him. You can’t enter the woodland realm and not show Legolas Greenleaf."
Other posters are out on the net more than I am, but I don't remember ever seeing any kind of post or comment, anywhere, that indicated any fan felt that way. If anything in informal polls and so on the excitement seemed to be for Smaug, Beorn, Thranduil, Bard. Legolas and Tauriel tended to be near the bottom, tho there were fans excited to see Legolas of course.
So now what? As far as I can tell the response re Legolas and this whole arc seems pretty muted "eh", overall - with many (not all) completely disinterested and irritated about the loss of screen time to this stuff. IMO it'd be a mistake not to dial down on it, and instead make sure as far as elves go, Thranduil really takes front and center stage. And if PJ & co. are unaware of that sentiment, then WB should be.
And frankly tho I like Orlando Bloom, I don't think he has the capacity for depth to pull off a huge emotional scene that way, and not have folks cringing. He's better off just looking mournful as in POTC and LOTR. Not ti mention the jealousy stuff was stupid from the start, IMO.
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Thyia
Bree
Mar 31 2014, 5:00pm
Post #14 of 23
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I think we will see Legolas more emotional than we've ever seen him onscreen in TABA. From what we've been shown & told in DoS, he is exceedingly fond of Tauriel (perhaps in love with her), and willing to defy his father for her. Chances are she will die during the Bo5A, or if not she will choose to leave and sail away (my preference as we've not been shown this in PJ's films thus far, and this being the last chance).
Like it or not, Legolas is a supporting character in these last two films, and there is no way he'll be relegated to a cameo in the final one. If Tauriel dies or leaves there will be emotional fallout for him, and I have no doubt that PJ et al will be happy to show us some of that. Perhaps even a confrontation between father and son. No, it shouldn't have more screen time or emphasis than the events that are in the book, but since they set it up in DoS, there will be follow through in TABA. They are not going to simply abandon it!
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Imladris18
Lorien
Mar 31 2014, 5:06pm
Post #15 of 23
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I don't think we really need to see him cry...lol
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But, there isn't much love for Legolas around these parts in general anyways.
We may get some emotion depending upon how they handle getting Orcrist back to Thorin (to me, this is the most likely), and possibly regarding Tauriel (I hope they don't go this route). Being that they wanted to make a statement about Legolas' reaction to Boromir's death scene, I actually don't see the whole "Tauriel Tragedy" happening and including Legolas. If anything, we'll see Tauriel grieve over Kili.
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Thranderz
Rohan
Mar 31 2014, 5:57pm
Post #16 of 23
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If he cries it makes his reactions to Gandalf's and Boromir's deaths redundant. Please no crying!
I simply walked into Mordor.
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Mar 31 2014, 7:27pm
Post #17 of 23
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Legolas acted more condescending than anything. Tis the ways of elves.
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Mar 31 2014, 7:36pm
Post #18 of 23
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"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Mar 31 2014, 8:26pm
Post #19 of 23
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It would be very out of character
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The elves in PJs films rarely show emotions in that way. They are portrayed as divine-like, and Legolas didn't even cry when Aragorn died (fell of that cliff) he didn't even say a word. I think elves keep alot of emotions to themself. So Legolas crying or screaming or laughing would be very out of character and make him less elven and more human in the movie-verse.
(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Mar 31 2014, 8:27pm)
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Escapist
Gondor
Apr 1 2014, 1:49am
Post #20 of 23
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Good points - but you bring to mind
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Legolas' mini-tantrum as he kicked the living daylights out of the responsible orc (re: Aragorn over the cliff moment).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
In the book, I remember Legolas sublimating strong emotions into songs (the sea), losing himself in other such songs (Lorien), and using humor (Caradras (sp)). He talks a great deal more in the book than in the movies - but I think the idea is that Legolas is a supporting character in LotR - and that is even more the case in TH.
It would be very easy to "overdue" Legolas in these stories to the point where, like a wonderful hit pop song, he goes from being widely loved and catchy to ... eh ...
There are stories, tales, and even franchises that focus on a Legolas-style hero (the first that comes to mind is Legend of Zelda - but - that stands on lots of older stuff). That's not what this is, of course, and it would be a big disservice to let it slip that far.
******HOWEVER**************
Thranduil is an enormous part of this story in its own right without altering its meaning. Therefore, I support more of Thranduil and people who love the Legolas-style hero can vicariously enjoy him through Thranduil and his kingdom (which does include Legolas).
Disclaimer: I had mentioned before that Tauriel isn't necessary, she isn't necessary for triggering Legolas' reactions to dwarves, but, if she were to either die or make for the havens because of Bo5A, either way it would add a more personal touch. I don't see why not, but I think the tie-in with Laketown's fate hits a little closer to the center of the story without making Tauriel+Legolas too much of an intrusion. I think Tauriel+Legolas belong in the story absolutely but that their part is the essential filling-out and realization of the elvish peoples' role - which while not central to the story, was very much there and important ... largely as a backdrop for Thranduil ...
If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?
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Anduinel
The Shire
Apr 1 2014, 6:00am
Post #21 of 23
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The "Legolas hates Dwarves" business...
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The "Legolas hates Dwarves" business was really an awkward and unnecessary retcon that doesn't fit in with the book or movie portrayals. The only way I can even try to reconcile it is that Legolas (like everyone else east of the Misty Mountains, apparently) knows Thorin on sight and hates this particular line of Dwarves for the insult they offered his father, bringing the dragon down on the land, etc.
Universal Constant: Those who are quickest to claim that artists should toughen up and learn to take criticism will themselves be delicate flowers unable to tolerate any difference of opinion.
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Apr 14 2014, 1:58pm
Post #23 of 23
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Re all the naysayer posts here, especially this from Escapist.
Quote
Thranduil is an enormous part of this story in its own right without altering its meaning. Therefore, I support more of Thranduil and people who love the Legolas-style hero can vicariously enjoy him through Thranduil and his kingdom (which does include Legolas).
I am more curious as to how you arrive at the conclusion that Legolas grew up with Tauriel?
Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread
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Dear me…
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