Showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss tell EW that seven is probably the magic number.

“It feels like this is the midpoint for us,” Benioff says. “If we’re going to go seven seasons, which is the plan, season 4 is right down the middle, the pivot point.”

The seven season goal-line has been floated in the media before, but the writer-producers of the acclaimed fantasy hit series says they’re firmer than before that three more seasons sounds about right.

“I would say it’s the goal we’ve had from the beginning,” Benioff says. “It was our unstated goal, because to start on a show and say your goal is seven seasons is the height of lunacy. Once we got to the point where we felt like we’re going to be able to tell this tale to its conclusion, that became [an even clearer] goal. Seven gods, seven kingdoms, seven seasons. It feels right to us.”

Seven sounds okay to HBO, as well. Or perhaps eight. “I’m expecting to be sitting down with Dan and David to talk season 5 and we’ll talk about how things are looking,” says HBO programming president Michael Lombardo. “We’re all very mindful that they’re having conversations all the time with [author George R.R. Martin]. I think they do feel bullish enough that there’s enough story to deliver through season 7. I hate to sound greedy, but our longest shows have gone 7 or 8 seasons, so seven is a nice long run for us.”

Of course, there’s the whole matter of Thrones catching up to Martin’s source material, since the author has released only five of his planned seven-novel Song of Ice and Fire series. Check out last year’s exclusive deep dive on the issue of Thrones catching up. Thrones returns to HBO on April 6.