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The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: The Pollantir:
The Children of Húrin
Poll: The Children of Húrin
Yes
No
View Results (52 votes)
 

BlackFox
Half-elven


Mar 14 2014, 6:49pm

Post #1 of 20 (910 views)
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The Children of Húrin Can't Post

Have you read it?
I know the story from The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, but I'm also thinking about finally reading the novel itself. What about you, guys? Have you read it? If you have, did you enjoy it? Where does it rank among Tolkien's other writings for you?


cats16
Half-elven


Mar 14 2014, 6:59pm

Post #2 of 20 (781 views)
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*Highly* recommended... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know where I would rank it, but I really do love it nonetheless. It feels like an 'old' tale, if that makes sense. The writing and structure really play out the story like a classic quest from centuries past.

I'm sure others here can give you a better sales pitch than that. BlushCool But I do recommended highly! Smile


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 14 2014, 7:27pm

Post #3 of 20 (776 views)
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It's fantastic! [In reply to] Can't Post

I highly recommend it as well! It's so great being able to read the whole thing without breaks or interruptions. As to the story itself, it's probably my favorite of Tolkien's works.


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Mar 14 2014, 8:10pm

Post #4 of 20 (774 views)
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I have read the Sil & UT versions.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


demnation
Rohan

Mar 14 2014, 8:12pm

Post #5 of 20 (761 views)
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I'd rank it right after (or alongside) LOTR. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is rather excellent. It is rather dreary, however. The whole book is a bit depressing, and there is absolutely none of the levity to be found in most of Tolkien's other works.


Dwarewien
Rohan


Mar 14 2014, 10:15pm

Post #6 of 20 (748 views)
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I've only read it once... [In reply to] Can't Post

so I'm not sure where I'd rank it. Perhaps a little bit after Unfinished Tales (since the tale was originally introduced in that book, if I can remember it right)? I really should read it again one of these days, but I'd have to buy the book over, since I only had The Children of Hurin in hardcover. I didn't find it dreary at all (a little sad at times, but never dreary), since it fills in some of the blanks that Unfinished Tales may have failed to mention, so I'd highly recommend it if you want the complete story, instead of just bits and pieces.Smile


malickfan
Gondor


Mar 14 2014, 10:16pm

Post #7 of 20 (745 views)
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Yes-multiple times, love the tone, depth and tragedy of the story, shame it wasn't longer! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's probably *3 for me in the list (After The Hobbit/The Silmarillion-joint first, and The Fellowship of The Ring) at least in terms of how much I enjoyed the story. For me it's a gripping read-great characters (how cool is Beleg?), memorable prose, and an intense, highly focused story, it's an engrossing window into the First Age, and a sobering reminder of what The Silmarillion could have been if Tolkien had completed it. Like The Hobbit I foind it very easy to read on its own terms as well so I don't find myself drowning in the details trying to connect all the dots of the history.

And I know Turin isn't exactly a popular character for many, but for me, much like Thorin (in the book, the screen version bores me) and Feanor he's a very intriguing protagonist and despite his pig headedness I found his downfall rather tragic, and was rooting for him all the way to the end, I liked the blurring of the boundaries between good and bad in the story as often I've found some of Tolkien's characters a little too flawless for their own good.

I've read The Sil, and UFT versions several times, and much of the early versions found in the HOME (though none recently), so I can't really compare the different versions, but the story is great in all of them.

Although I understand why Christopher Tolkien wanted to end the book at a powerful, sudden ending, I'm still a little annoyed The Wanderings of Hurin (and a little more about The Battle of Unumbered Tears) didn't find their way into the story, whilst it would have widened (and arguably, cluttered) the focus of the narrative, personally I feel it would have added to the 'epicness' and reinforced the tragedy befalling Hurin's line.


Magpie
Immortal


Mar 14 2014, 10:19pm

Post #8 of 20 (752 views)
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which of these questions are we answering 'yes' or 'no' to? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm too literal, I guess... you've asked four questions in your thread starter. I'm not sure what the actual poll question is.


BlackFox
Half-elven


Mar 14 2014, 10:45pm

Post #9 of 20 (743 views)
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The one in bold [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry for the confusion. CrazySmile


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 14 2014, 10:48pm

Post #10 of 20 (735 views)
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Very enjoyable expansion of the Narn [In reply to] Can't Post

We will actually begin discussing CoH in the RR starting April 27th, Black Fox, if you care to join in or read along. Cool I would recommend it!


BlackFox
Half-elven


Mar 14 2014, 10:54pm

Post #11 of 20 (729 views)
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That'd be cool! [In reply to] Can't Post

You know, I just might do it. Smile


Misto
Lorien

Mar 14 2014, 11:02pm

Post #12 of 20 (728 views)
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Read the Silmarillion and UT versions [In reply to] Can't Post

and that's quite enough for me. It's nice but not my favourite story and I have no desire to read yet another version of the same story. *shrugs*


imin
Valinor


Mar 14 2014, 11:22pm

Post #13 of 20 (730 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

Excellent story, one of my faves, stayed with me for days when i first read it.


Magpie
Immortal


Mar 15 2014, 12:28am

Post #14 of 20 (734 views)
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ah, thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

I have read it (and voted thusly) but I don't know about 'enjoying' it. I don't respond to the style of writing we find in the Sil and CoH as much what we find in LOTR. I actually liked UT quite a lot.

And the story itself is 'down' enough that even if one could appreciate it, I'm not sure how much 'enjoyment' would figure into that.

I didn't really like Turin all that much.

I read CoH in a reading group of two* - my friend and I via emails - one email per chapter. Once I got toward the end, I just tackled the last few chapters in one fell swoop. Here's what I wrote (Good night, that was 6 years ago!)
I read the last chapters. Like every good Shakespearean drama, everyone dies except for 1 who is left to comment on it all.

Then I watched the first half of Pride and Prejudice on PBS and now want to wax philosophical about Turin Turambar in the language of Jane Austen.

But really, when it was all over, I didn't like Turin and I must confess, I didn't like the story. I think I just came to the realization. We all think it is elevated of us to appreciate the Silmarillion and only weaker minds would eschew it, favoring only the more accessible LOTR. This was a different Tolkien who wrote this. I could make astute observations about those last chapters but I'm left with nothing that makes me think anything other than:

A) Turin was basically a s*** and he made the bed he laid in or...
B) Evil will corrupt all and we don't stand a chance against it.

neither option is interesting to me as a story line. I never stop finding things to marvel in LOTR. It seems I find little to marvel in this. I did like aspects of it and I wonder if JRR himself would have approved of its publication. Did he consider this a worthy work or were they sketches for him? Practice runs at the world of Middle-earth.

I will probably read the final appendices stuff although I don't know if I'll have much to say re: it. If you have observations I'd be happy to hear them.

I do enjoy Jane Austen. ;^)


*She and I were part of another forum that read the Sil and UT as a reading group years earlier than the two of us tackled CoH. So we were familiar with the story as told in those two works.


imin
Valinor


Mar 15 2014, 4:26pm

Post #15 of 20 (694 views)
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Thanks for the post, [In reply to] Can't Post

It was an interesting read. I love knowing what people's view are of Turin. He seems to be a bit of a marmite/vegemite character.

Although my reaction to CoH and The Sil is different to yours i agree that the writing style is not for everyone but that doesn't mean anything about the person other than each has a style they like. For me i love it and it seems to resonate with me (just as LOTR does to be fair), the first age seems so full of wonder but such tragedy at the same time.

I always saw Turin to be someone who isn't perfect but perhaps more real than other Tolkien characters who tries to do what's right but the curse is upon him so it always weaves its presence on his life. I guess i would side more with option 2 from the two you gave, but i am a mixture of both which i find interesting. For me i see it as one man who was near enough for ever under the curse has no chance of breaking free - but at times he was so close! And if his personality was a little different he maybe would have? As you might be able to tell i quite like the character and love the story, one of his (Tolkien's best). It is of course a very sad tale, but one with glimpses of happiness which in the end make it all the more sad, and with his chances for things to have been better perhaps, it feels bittersweet to me and for some reason bittersweet hits me hardest.

Of course i am not saying your opinion is wrong, just expressing mine but it is interesting how one character can illicit a variety of reactions.

Oh and i love mim Smile


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 15 2014, 4:38pm

Post #16 of 20 (697 views)
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I too like the tale [In reply to] Can't Post

And I think with JRRT's early fascination and instant love of Kullervo and the Finnish-style mythos that inspired Turin the story was never going to be a superficially happy one. But it seems JRRT had a strong personal need to incorporate it. I see Kullervo/Turin as the symbol of *us*: the regular flawed person, buffeted by Fate. Turin made some bad decisions but some good ones too...like we all do.


For me its an essential part of the tale (in my own head-canon) to incorporate the Second Prophecy of Mandos, in which Turin and Gurthang return to strike a blow at Morgoth, like a symbol of the suffering of all men and the gift to set it right. So I take some happiness in that.


imin
Valinor


Mar 15 2014, 4:41pm

Post #17 of 20 (685 views)
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Yeah i like that as well :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
For me its an essential part of the tale (in my own head-canon) to incorporate the Second Prophecy of Mandos, in which Turin and Gurthang return to strike a blow at Morgoth, like a symbol of the suffering of all men and the gift to set it right. So I take some happiness in that.


Oh and hello, nice to see you on here Tongue


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 15 2014, 4:43pm

Post #18 of 20 (687 views)
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(*wave*) Same here! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Magpie
Immortal


Mar 15 2014, 5:51pm

Post #19 of 20 (682 views)
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My short comments on his character would probably fare better... [In reply to] Can't Post

... taken in context of the entire conversation we had. Remember, we were writing each other on our thoughts for each chapter. (and by 'fare better' I just mean there would be more 'meat' to the statement such that a more developed conversation might arise from it)

For example, in Chapter 15, I wrote:
I will be wed or go to war

Okay, here's another sort example of what I was complaining about with Morwen when she said to Mablung, 'you better help me cross this river or I'll just cross it myself.' This wasn't, I argued, like the Little Red Hen saying, if you don't help, I'll do it myself. This was a threat. This was, "I'll do something that kills me if you don't help me." It's a manipulative way to get what one wants and I especially abhor people who behave like this.

Now Turambar says, 'Marry me, Niniel... marry me or I'll go to war'. We know Niniel does not want Turambar to go to war. I can't remember if this has been expressed to Turin to our knowledge but I'm guessing he knows. I think, on a conscious level, Turin does not see this as manipulative. But it is manipulative.

Turin has so many good qualities: he's brave, he's a leader, he has (apparently) good tactical skills, he's got a sense of personal integrity (even if his expressions are questionable). He has everything he needs to be a fine, noble person and leader. Why does it go so wrong? I say it's because he finds personal pride in these attributes and he's more focused on how those attributes serve his personal pride than how they serve those around him, especially the ones he cares for and loves.

I think I see this in him and judge him for it because I suffer the same failings. And even with much soul searching and work to change it... I struggle everyday with this failing. We are hardest on those that are most like us... I seem to be very hard on Turin.


I had a lot to say about Turin in that weeks long conversation. I sometimes marvel at how much I had to say back in the day about a lot of things. :-)


Meneldor
Valinor


Mar 15 2014, 6:20pm

Post #20 of 20 (688 views)
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I read it, and I'm glad I did. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I have no great burning desire to read it again. I agree with Magpie's assessment of the story and the characters.

 
 

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